Another Discussion With A Moderate Muslim

Have I met any real life Muslims? Does this mean that all the Muslims in article after article, quoted saying anti-American hate speech aren’t real Muslims? Are they pretending?

My impression of Islamic terrorists as being killers, is not misguided. My impression of Muslims who commit honor killings as being killers, is not misguided. If you don’t do those things, then you aren’t a killer. Why is that so complicated? Are you offended that we are disparaging the reputation of radical Islam? They have created their own reputation, and we simply expose it. We report facts and add our own opinion/commentary. We don’t make up stuff out of thin air. If you are really concerned with the cause of showing Islam as a peaceful religion, then getting us to stop talking about all the atrocities committed in the name of Islam is not the way to do it. Speak out and condemn radical Islam. As long as your “brothers” are out there saying they are plotting to kill us all, we aren’t going to stop exposing them.

I don’t have a clue why he says “you seem to be under the somewhat misguided impression that all Muslims are murderers who are out to get you”… this site is very careful about clarifying the difference between so called ‘islamofascists’ and more moderate muslims. It is the fundamentally flawed system of religion AND government of Islam that is being called into question, and hopefully finally being shown for what it truly is. No one here is racist against Muslims, and I do have more than one friend from this group.

When the authors of this site attack moderate muslims, it has nothing to do with thinking they are going to murder, etc… it’s the ACCEPTANCE of the way of thinking that has all the extremists of this religion murdering, raping, etc., that the moderates are being called out for. While the moderates may not take part in these acts themselves, they support them in one way or another, and do nothing to put a stop to it. Do something to stop the insanity of the way of life that has corrupted this part of the world for so long!!! Instead of actually identifying the problems with that way of living and belief system, these moderates simply want to play the blame game, and continue hating America and Bush (or really whoever is in spotlight) blindly… which in turn only helps the extremists/terrorists.

CAIR is about the worst thing this country is facing right now, and represents the entire issue of the downfall of this country from within… we have become so pacifistic and politically correct that it seems many Americans (read liberals) would rather have terrorist attacks run rampant than to even hint at some offense to a religion that is based on… MURDER.

I appreciate the fact that people have taken time to answer my question. Let me take a moment to explain that in fact I do a great deal in my professional and personal life to counter to the damage that a tiny albeit horrific minority has done to the reputation of my faith. I work for an interfaith (Jewish-Chrsitian-Muslim) dialogue organisation and this is omething I am very proud of. In fact I consider this MY Jihad (a highly misunderstood term which roughly translates to “person/holy struggle”) I feel that I am a true Muslim, since I have enormous respect for other people faiths and beliefs. To answer a question you have asked, I absolutely do not ever wish to see the US or my own UK as a Sharia’a state. I am not overjoyed by ANY country being run under Sharia’a law – for one, I believe in the separation of state and religion. Furthermore, people who are calling for this ludicrous thing, I feel, do so because it gives them a great deal of undeserved attention, as well as a platform they would otherwise not have. The US is what it is; a major world power that has and continues to contribute a great deal to human development in science, technology, art and much more. It also makes huge mistakes. However, that is an issue for the American people, who are fortunate enough to have a choice in who governs them. Why would I want Sharia’a law for a country where Muslims are a tiny minority? That is just patently ridiculous.

To answer another point you made, we are not so concerned with forums such as this one that we go around posting comments all the time. The reason I did so yesterday was because I happened to come across this site, and although I disagree with the majority opinion, I felt that it was a forum where I could put my views across without being chased out of town. You have proven my hunch right and I genuinely thank you.

My biggest problem with this site is that it does not make the distinction (as far as I can see – I maybe wrong, and if I am please let me know) between fanatical murderers who have hijacked Islam and twisted it for their own warped purposes and ordinary, good people, who constitute the majority of Muslims.

Thank you for your time, and I apologise for this long and protracted reply.

Two more points which I forgot to make: first, please do not presume that I support any organisation based solely upon the fact that I am a Muslim. Second, (not so serious but important to me), I am not actually a ‘he’, but a ‘she’. Thanks.

Sushiman has a point. While I commend your working with an interfaith group I see very very few Muslims taking out full pages ads decrying the tribal war that is being fought with the US in the middle. How many Iraqis have been murdered by Iraqis ( and Iranians )? Lots and Lots. Also if you look at the leadership within the Arab League nations it is deplorable. If Muslims want to be angry at some one look in the mirror. Most Arab nations are the most illiterate, most repressive, most poorly educated nations on earth. Before your get mad at the West fix your own house. The reason arab males are blowing themselves up is because they have no hope. That is not our doing your countries are the most corrupt and backward on earth.

I’m a little surprised that you’re a “she”. A woman defending Islam seems more unusual just because of the inhumane treatment of the female Islamic community. Do female Islamic women enjoy not having equal rights to men?

“The reason arab males are blowing themselves up is because they have no hope.” I suggest Muslims blow themselves up FOR HOPE. For hope of reaching 72 virgins and rivers of wine, and to be Martyrs. Homocide bombers are not hopeless at all, they want to die. Our enemy lives to die. They are not hopeless people at all, they aspire to die, while killling Jews, Christians and other Muslims they deem as apostates. This has been going on for 1400 years, don’t buy into the “Hopeless Muslim” argument. It’s a falsehood, and outright nonsense.

Brit, while the minority might be “tiny”, the amount of Muslims in the world is estimated to be over a billion. Even if it were a 10% minority (which is a small percentage relatively), we are still talking about millions and millions of jihadists. It only takes one to succeed, yet we need to work to stop every one of those millions from carrying out their evil plans.

I can appreciate your work and what you are trying to say here. In fact, I’m pleasantly surprised by what you said in your follow-up comment. However, you must understand how we feel threatened by these people, and acknowledge the giant void in the media/PR arena in condemning terrorism. I have yet to see prominent Muslim leaders come out against these terrorists.

I’m sure you are familiar with Ayaan Hirsi Ali, I’m interested in your view of her, since you are a woman yourself.

Sorry about the delay in replying to your comments/questions – I was out of town for a few days in Florence with no internet access.Firstly, thank you all for the comments. My view on Ayaan Hirsi Ali is rather negative I’m afraid. She is someone who lied about her refugee status to the Dutch authorities in order to get citizenship, which (when it all came to light) got her in to a whole load of trouble with the the Dutch authorities and got her expelled as a member of the Dutch parliament. Also, I feel that she has exploited a niche in the market – many people will pay a great deal of money to hear a Muslim make negative comments about Islam and she has grown rich from doing so. I just find her very shady. The second point I would like to address is “inhumane treatment of the female Islamic community”. This seems rather peculiar to me. I am an educated, independent woman who would not take kindly to inhumane treatment of anyone, much less myself. I do not believe Islam or the “Islamic community” treats women in humanely. I understand that there have been many debates about the treatment of women in Islam and I would like to share my own experiences which are by no means unique. My family originate from Egypt and I have never been forced to dress in any particular way, never been forced into marriage, never been stopped from having an education or career. In fact every achievement I have ever made has made my family very proud of me. This is not just due to the fact that I was born and raised in the UK. All the women in my family are educated and have successful careers. From my great grandmother who was very active in the feminist movement in Egypt in the 1920′s, to both my grandmothers who were a doctor and a scientist respectively, to my mother and my aunts who can also boast similar successes.; So I have never actually been opressed and neither has any woman in my family that I am aware of. We are not unique. Pretty much all the women I know in and from Egypt are very educated, successful and independent. I realise that this may not be the case everywhere (Saudi Arabia and Iran spring to mind) but as far as I am concerned Islam works in perfect harmony with anything that I choose to do and has never had a negative or hindering effect on my life. I feel that Islam actually enhances my life and adds a great deal to it. My three best (Muslim) girlfriends here in the UK are a heart surgeon, a university lecturer and successful buyer for an huge international fashion house.

How can you, Brit muslim, explain this?

can there be any explanation other than religiously promoted murder?

Iran’s Supreme Court has acquitted a group of men charged over a series of gruesome killings in 2002, according to lawyers for the victims’ families.
The vigilantes were not guilty because their victims were involved in un-Islamic activities, the court found.

The killers said they believed Islam let them spill the blood of anyone engaged in illicit activities if they issued two warnings to the victims.

The serial killings took place in 2002 in the south-eastern city of Kerman.

‘Morally corrupt’

The case raises serious questions about vigilantes in Iran taking justice into their own hands and undermining the rule of law.

Up to 18 people were killed in just one year, but only five of the murders were tried in court.

According to their confessions, the killers put some of their victims in pits and stoned them to death. Others were suffocated. One man was even buried alive while others had their bodies dumped in the desert to be eaten by wild animals.

The accused, who were all members of an Islamic paramilitary force, told the court their understanding of the teachings of one Islamic cleric allowed them to kill immoral people if they had ignored two warnings to stop their bad behaviour.

But there was no judicial process to determine the guilt of the victims in these cases.

The group even killed a young couple they thought were involved in sex outside marriage, but media reports say the couple were either married or engaged to be married.

Lawyers for the victims’ families say the Supreme Court has five times overturned the verdict of a lower court that found all the men guilty of murder.

Now the Supreme Court is reported to have acquitted all the killers of the charge of murder on the grounds that their victims were all morally corrupt.

Some of the group may, however, face prison sentences or have to pay financial compensation to their victims’ families

I really am beholding to “BritMuslim” for his comments. I have always been impressed with Muslim propaganda and believe our US Marketing firms could learn alot from the MIddle East and Muslims around the world in conveying their beliefs and nonsensical vapid babble to the Ignorant souls around the world. I for one did live in a Muslim country for many years and have worked in numerous Muslim countries and they are all the same, pathetic, corrupt, and all lack any sense of freedom. I might add that after living in an all Muslim neighborhood for over 4 years, their can be no doubt that Islam is incompatible with democracy. Clearly, anywhere Islam goes Freedom flees. Yes I sound negative to Islam and that is because althought I agree with “BritMuslim” that many Muslims are peaceful and loving individuals, however, the Religion as a whole just cannot exist side by side with another Religion.

I might also that it is not a samll minority that has taken over a religion that has always been intolerant of other religions but a large percentage. Lets face it, for every Mosque we build in the west, we create a save haven for even more terrorists to move into peaceful neighborhoods. Eight out of ten Mosques built in this country are Wahhabi founded Mosques and lets face it, Wahhabism isn’t here to be equal, it’s here to takeover and anyone with even a two digit IQ can see it happening already in the west. Soon, we will be calling Michigan the “Islamic State of Michigan.” Where Islam goes, freedom flees!!!

I’m sure you are all surprised to see me responding to this

BritMuslim has a point. The overall impression that one gets from reading this site is that all Muslims are extremists. Now I admit that you don’t actually state this in your articles, but it is rather trite to excuse yourselves by stating that you are not inferring that all Muslims are like this.

Sushiman – “This site is very careful about clarifying the difference between so called ‘islamofascists’ and more moderate muslims.” This is an important distinction as I am sure we can all agree, and I don’t recall it ever having been made. Perhaps you could point out a few example of this having been done?

BritMuslim – “To answer a question you have asked, I absolutely do not ever wish to see the US or my own UK as a Sharia’a state. I am not overjoyed by ANY country being run under Sharia’a law – for one, I believe in the separation of state and religion.” A sentiment that I am sure is shared by most moderates, which constitutes the majority of the 1.4 billion Muslims on this planet.

jhg3 – “If Muslims want to be angry at some one look in the mirror.” NO, THIS IS FAULTY RESONING. The violence that is committed by extremist Muslims is not the fault of moderate Muslims. Do you assume that by being a follower of Islam that one condones the acts of extremists? Does that mean that if I were Christian that I would be responsible for violence committed in the name of Christianity? I for one consider the Crusades to have been quite abhorrent.

Jeff Davis – “‘The reason arab males are blowing themselves up is because they have no hope.’ I suggest Muslims blow themselves up FOR HOPE. For hope of reaching 72 virgins and rivers of wine, and to be Martyrs.” IN MANY CASES these extremists have lost a family member to a bomb carried by another Arab male. It is an unfortunate element of the human psyche (called transference (wiki it)) which causes some to look for revenge against the group that they perceive to be responsible for the death of this family member, thus a tragically self reinforcing cycle is established. Of course this does not excuse the murder of civilians, and indeed the use of the term Martyr to describe such murderers is plain wrong.

historian – “How can you, Brit muslim, explain this?” Why does she have to? Do you think she or any “moderate Muslim” condones this? Just because BritMuslim is defending her faith, it does mean that she approves of all the acts that are committed in the name of Islam.

Bapakgila – “I really am beholding to “BritMuslim” for his comments.” BritMuslim is a she, not a he!

Bapakgila – “I might add that after living in an all Muslim neighbourhood for over 4 years, their can be no doubt that Islam is incompatible with democracy.” I know a considerable number of Muslims in England who seem to have no problems living in a democracy. SHARIA is incompatible with democracy, not ISLAM!

Thank you for your time folks.

historian – “How can you, Brit muslim, explain this?” Why does she have to? Do you think she or any “moderate Muslim” condones this? Just because BritMuslim is defending her faith, it does NOT mean that she approves of all the acts that are committed in the name of Islam.

Slight typo there, it did have a considerable effect upon the meaning of the sentence however.

i think while muslims in south asian countries have progressed while muslims in middleeast and europe have remained back ward and became fundamentalist.that is why muslims female actors can wear miniskirt in reel and real life and other muslim girls can do that as well but if the same is done in any other contry including europe then may god save them

i want to ask britmuslim one question.what is problem for muslim women in
wearing western clothes when western women in islamic countries are forced to cover their head.

One point four billion?- That’s a lot of bullets, but I’m sure we can manage