Breast Feeding Grown Men

by Infidelesto on May 27, 2007 · View Comments

Do you like this story?

Sounds disgusting and sick right?

Here’s the Islamic logic:

It is a grave sin for any Muslim woman to be in a room alone with another man. This becomes a problem when working Muslim women sometimes are put in a situation where they have to work and sometimes there’s nothing they can do, although they know their committing a horrible sin by being in the room alone with another man.

So, to solve this problem, Islamic scholars issued a hadith that goes all the way back to the days of Muhammad.

When Mohammed cancelled the principle of adoption, Salim became a stranger in the house and could no longer be alone with Sahla, Abu Huthayfa’s wife. The Lady complained to Mohammed who immediately provided her with a genius solution- he asked her to breast-feed Salim, after which she would again be allowed to keep him as a son with her in the house. She said: ‘but Salim is a man and has a beard!’ Mohammed smiled to her and said ‘I know that’.

Well, since Muhammad said it, it must be right. I know, I know, many Muslims have rejected this practice, but if it came directly from Muhammad, how can the majority reject it?

Q.33:36. It is not fitting for a Believer, man or woman, when a matter has been decided by Allah and His Messenger to have any option about their decision…
Some of these Muslims attempted to soften the impact of the fatwa on the shocked Muslim community in various ways. Some expressed reservations about the way the fatwa was presented to the public while others tried to explain that breast-feeding doesn’t necessarily imply direct contact between a man and a woman. They suggested that a woman could collect her milk in a cup and offer it to a male colleague! This group of Muslims try to reform Islam in their own way, in doing so they forget that women do not always produce milk.

With anger and embarrassment, the majority of Muslims, however, reject the fatwa. They claim that Mohammed could have never allowed something like that. Needless to say this group of Muslims never heard of the above story before. I do not blame them, because, as a Muslim I myself heard of it only in my later years. Even then, I assumed the hadith was a weak one, which is why I never considered using it as a credible proof of the falsity of Islam.

But the hadith is a credible one, and has been reported by sahih books like Sahih Muslim, Sunan Abu Dawud and Ibn Majah. Moreover, this hadith has been thoroughly investigated by a number of highly revered Islamic scholars like Ibn Taymiyya, Ibn Hazm and Al Albani. Denying a hadith with such strength would be like denying the existence of main Islamic events like fasting and prayers.

So, I can understand why most Muslims reject this Hadith, but it should reveal something even more important about Muhammed and his wonderful religion of peace. Muhammad had an agenda and he didn’t think twice about breaking his own rules to fit that agenda.

Of course, it’s better in Muhammad’s eyes for a woman to breast feed a grown man, rather than just suck it up and actually be alone in a room with another man. How RETARDED is this way of thinking?

“Um, no sir, I’m sorry, I have to breast feed you before you can enter my house, Allah forbids me to let you in my house while I am alone. ”

Wow…just wow

from Islam-watch

via ROP

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  • http://www.mosquewatch.blogspot.com Jeff

    The Hadiths are some of the more interesting writings in Islam. Over the last few years, I’ve gotten the excuses of “That’s a weak Hadith”. It seems all the “weak Hadiths” are ones that the Muslims don’t like or the ones the infidels find distasteful. This is a good post, it will introduce people into Sahi Bukhari and other hadiths. Very good post. Hope baby infidel is doing ok as well :) I’ll email a pic of my grandbaby and we can argue over whos the cutest baby lol. Best of wishes, and I hope you are haveing a great Memorial Day!

  • muslimah101

    Stop overexaggerating loser

  • nursingpump

    Hey I am quite stunned to know that!

  • hellosnackbar

    So if you find yourself in close company with a muslimah. She is duty bound to pop out her tits and invite you to suckle!
    Well I look forward to that but I might bite her due to uncontrollable laughter.
    Oi xcon ;what about that then!

  • http://www.breastpumpdeals.com/medela-pump-in-style-advanced.html FrancisMedelaPumps

    Wow…just wow! You've just said the right word for this!

  • JEWHAWK

    SICKENING.

    I wonder if instead of a woman,a male DONKEY could do the
    “trick”…HAHAHAHAHA!!

    It comes with a “pacifier”….After all,muslims are used to have
    all sorts of sexual experiences with animals!!

  • anwarlondon

    It is narrated in the Tabaqat of Ibn Sa’d and elsewhere that Sahla would pour her breast-milk into a utensil each day for five continuous days and Salim would drink from it. He did not directly drink from the breast of Sahla, as it is not permitted to expose one’s nakedness (awra) in front of a non-Mahram adult, let alone have him suckled. Thus, the objection raised by some non-Muslims that this was an immoral act has no significance, for Sahla did not directly suckle Salim, as he had reached puberty. Imam Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani (Allah have mercy on him) has also mentioned this in his al-Isaba fi tamiz al-Sahaba. (See: Tabaqat Ibn Sa’d, 8/271 & al-Isaba, 4/337)

    This leaves us with the question whether is it allowed for an adult to drink breast-milk, and what implications would that hold?

    It is a well-known and recognised fact amongst the majority of the Muslim jurists (fuqaha) that suckling is not permitted after two (or 2 and a half) years, neither does it affect the rules of Hijab and marriage. The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) quite clearly mentioned this in one Hadith where he said: “…suckling is only valid if it takes place in the suckling period.” (Sahih al-Bukhari, no. 2504 & Sahih Muslim, no. 1455) The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) also said: “Suckling (radha’a) does not prohibit (i.e. marriage) except which penetrates the intestines (m: meaning which serves as a nourishment for the child) from the breasts, and it is prior to weaning.” (Recorded by Imam al-Tirmidhi in his Sunan, no. 1152)

    Due to the above narrations, all four Sunni schools of Islamic law are in agreement that suckling and breastfeeding will only be considered (i.e. in effecting the rules of marriage and Hijab) if it takes place in the period designated for it, and it is of no significance after that period.

    Thus, scholars mention that the permission given by the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) for Sahla to give her milk to Salim was a special dispensation and an isolated case, and it cannot be generalized. Imam Abu al-Abbas al-Qurtubi (Allah have mercy on him) states that all of the Prophet’s wives with the exception of A’isha (Allah be pleased with them all) considered this to be a special dispensation, and this is the view taken by the majority of early (salaf) and late (khalaf) scholars. They considered the Hadith to be specific with Salim and Sahla, and are of the opinion that it is not permitted for an adult to drink breast-milk. If an adult did drink breast-milk, it will be of no consequence with regards to marriage and the rules of Hijab. (See: al-Mufhim, 4/186-187 & I’la al-Sunan, 11/119)

    Moreover, Umm Salama, the wife of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) used to say: “All the wives of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) rejected the idea that one can come to them (without observing the rules of Hijab) with this type of breastfeeding (i.e. the suckling of an adult), hence they said to A’isha (Allah be pleased with her): “By Allah, we do not consider this but a dispensation given by the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) for Salim. No one is to be allowed to enter (our houses) with this type of fosterage and we do not subscribe to this view.” (Sahih Muslim, no: 1454)

    Thus, in conclusion, it is not permitted for an adult to intentionally drink breast-milk; neither will it have any bearing on the rules of Hijab and marriage. The companion Salim (Allah be pleased with him) was given a special dispensation by the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) to drink the milk of Sahla, the wife of Abu Hudhayfa, due to the special circumstances of their case. However, Salim did not directly drink the milk from the breast of Sahla, rather, she would pour the milk in a utensil and he would drink from it.

    And Allah knows best

  • hellosnackbar

    Allah he/she of non existence knows nothing(just as any fictional character would).
    Why not ask the easter bunny for advice?
    And as for giving Mohammed peace; that old fleabag has got a lot to answer for!

  • http://www.breastpumpdeals.com/brands/medela-breast-pumps.html Medela

    I never knew that these kinds of things Happens in our society.Am stunned to know that !

  • http://www.breastpumpdeals.com/avent-isis-iq-duo-breast-pump.html ISIS Avent

    Now this is ridiculous.

  • Beejj

    Islam IS ridiculous – dangerously so.

  • Beejj

    Gosh, I bet old Salim got a stiffy watching Sahla empty her udders. You people are beyond the pale. Depraved ain't in it. No doubt there's an Arabic word for your condition. Um ….. of course there is!! MUSLIM.

  • http://www.breastpumpdeals.com/avent-isis-iq-duo-breast-pump.html ISIS Avent

    I never said ISLAM is ridiculous.

  • hellosnackbar

    Yes it is; you were right the first time.
    Now how about a beheading?to expiate your blasphemy?

  • hellosnackbar

    So where's the Muslim dairy then?
    May Allah be displeased with me!

  • Beejj

    Yes, I know, but it is, isn't it?

  • funkybarfly

    HA HA HA HA…….One of the best yet!
    Freud's head would have exploded trying to get to the bottom of this psychiatric cesspool.
    Morons.

  • http://www.breastpumpdeals.com/avent-isis-iq-duo-breast-pump.html Isis

    Islam isnt ridiculous.People following Islam makes Islam ridiculous !!

  • Bronwyn

    This line of argument doesn't help you. You see the ridiculous situation that Mohammad has commanded very clearly. Rather than blame Mohammad for being an ass you blame the people who follow him. Yes, they are to be blamed for mindlessly following Mohammad. You too are to be blamed for defending Mohammad's cruel stupidity rather than admit that Islam makes a mockery of human beings and should be changed.

    Islam inspires atrocities. It does no good for you to say that the people who commit the atrocities don't understand Islam If Islam is so defective that it cannot be understood and those committed to it are continually destroying other people and themselves, there is not better argument for its erradication.

  • anwarlondon

    There is a basic principle within islam which is that knowledge is a prerequisite for action. As for the attitudes and opinions of a huge number of non muslims towards islam than all that can be said is that it is a great injustice to pass judgment on a matter (ie in this case Islam) until you have attained knowledge and correct understanding of it. To be more specific Do not judge islam by muslims rather judge muslims by Islam, (no body would cast a judgment on christianity based upon the actions and statments of the k k k who claim to have a god given right to a all white america)

    For example the Islamic position on smoking shisha: it is impermissable due to the fact that it harms the body, however shisha is mostly smoked in the muslim cummunities, Does this mean that Islam allows smoking shisha? of course not.

    Below is the statements of one of the leading scholars of islam at this time, However muslims that adhere to this methodology are rarely heard of in our media.

    Shaykh Saalih ibn Muhammad al-Luhaydaan

    Reference: Fataawa al A-imah: P.57 – A Portion of a statement given by the Shaykh on Saudi T.V. after witnessing the W.T.C. collisions

    After clarifying Islaam's Stance towards terrorism, the Shaykh continues…

    …Due to this, what I witnessed being broadcast in the media, the collisions that caused those towers to collapse. The people’s reaction was as if it were the Day of Resurrection, their fright was the fright of the establishment of the Hour (Day of Resurrection). People running here and there were in plain shock.

    Those who carry out such crimes are Islaamicaly considered to be the most dangerous of criminals, the worst of them in acts. Whoever believes that a Muslim scholar, one who is knowledgeable of the objectives of the Islaamic legislation, knowledgeable of the meanings of the Qur-aan and the Sunnah of the Messenger (صلى الله عليه وسلم), would permit such acts, has indeed thought evil.

    It is not befitting for a Muslim to rejoice over the misfortunes of others, even if it were an enemy who wronged them. Oppression is unacceptable [in Islaam] and personal transgression/revenge against those who do not deserve punishment is forbidden, a terrible affair.

    So how about these events that we witnessed, events that cause fear by merely viewing them, how can it be said that Muslims approve of such activities?!

    End Quote

    You wont hear that on CNN or BBC or FOX or Even Al Jazeera for that matter

    Note that this is in effect a Fatwa and should be implemented and adhered to by the muslims
    Let see how many muslims adhere to it…………………….

    Look forward to hearing some sensible intellectual replies

    SO IN ESSENCE MAKE A DISTINCTION BETWEEN ISLAM AND THE MUSLIMS

    The only religion that worships the true God alone

  • http://www.breastpumpdeals.com/avent-isis-iq-duo-breast-pump.html Isis

    lol, Am not arguing here :D I guess you are the one ! I am not defending here anyone, BTW am an atheist.I respect religions that's why i am saying Islam isn't ridiculous.

  • http://www.breastpumpdeals.com/avent-isis-iq-duo-breast-pump.html Isis

    Why don't you better stick to your religion only? May i know what's your religion? Nobody in this world is perfect.There might be few drawbacks in your religion also.

  • Beejj

    No drawbacks in my religion, dear chap: it's called REASON.

  • http://www.breastpumpdeals.com/avent-isis-iq-duo-breast-pump.html Isis

    lol if it were so you could have told me your religion :p

  • Beejj

    But I DID tell you, you silly goose. Come on ….. think.

  • http://www.breastpumpdeals.com/avent-isis-iq-duo-breast-pump.html Isis

    I don't care a damn! :D Ask your mum if you dont know about your religion :p goodbye see you tommorow! I got a lot of work to do.I am not as free as you are, i guess you are unemployed got nothing to do! So you are killing your time as well as mine:D

  • Beejj

    Just as I feared, it went straight through to the goalie. Let me spell it out for you, then: I am an atheist; proudly so.

    Yes, I can see that you have much work to do, especially in the area of English grammar. Study hard.

  • Bronwyn

    The version of your remarks that was sent to my email says that you are an atheist. I am glad that you took that down, because I don't t believe that you have thought about anything long enough to take a reasoned and moral stance of any kind, particularly atheism. Most atheists I know have very high standards and great grief at the evil in the world. Their conclusion that there is not God is usuallly a consequence of their disdain for the fact that He has allowed such great evil to take place in the world.I don't think that this is your position.

    You present yourself as a fluff head.. You want me to believe that you are about as deep as a piece of chewing gum . You say that you respect all religions. No you don't. You couldn't possibly be that ridiculous. In the face of alll of the tragedies that are chronicled here, you know very well that Islam is evil. It is your calculation that you are better off to ignore this evil than to admit it and fight it. You say that you laugh out loud. I doubt it. I think that you are another Muslim woman who is absolutely petrified at the hell she finds herself in and that you don't know what to do.
    I am going to give you some advice. It is the same advice that I would give my own sons and daughters and advice that I have had to take. You need to make some decisions. Decide that a life of dignity and truth is the only life worth living. Decide that it is better to die on your feet than live on your knees. Refuse to be another woman trapped all her life by the fear of death.THey seek to terrify you by their stonigns and beheadings and beatings inot accepting their dogmas of slavery. Don't. I bring you good news. Allah is not God and Mohammad is not a prophet of anyone. You are free from his lies and prejudices. I am no atheist. I recognize evil because I have seen it in my own heart by introspection and God is not responsible. But God is really a Father and he can give you courage and change your heart. I urge you to call out to Jesus. Proving HImself to you will be no problem. If you can get away, get away. Go and get strong and come back for the others. The anitdote to all this death is to really live. I look forward to your success. Godspeed.

  • funkybarfly

    And while I'm at it,anwarlondon,I'll make the following corrections to my thinking on “distinction”:
    Rain and wet
    Sea and salt
    Sun and warmth
    Rimbaud and poetry
    Alcohol and getting drunk
    Sugar and sweet
    Pigs and bacon
    You would try to have me believe that Islam and Muslims are as chalk is to cheese?
    You idiot……..I bet you vote Labour.
    If it walks like a duck,quacks like a duck,presents its arse and kisses carpet in the name of Islam like a duck,then it's a fucken Muslim duck.
    Jesus never deputized a posse and went a'nigger lynchin',so your comparison is ridiculous.
    Mohammed on the other hand…….
    Give religion away,anwarlondon,it's making you embarrass yourself;but if you must have a little meataphysical nite-lite in your life,why do you choose the one that is least original,most ignorant and furthest away from god?
    Go to You Tube,watch some Palestinian Children's Television and feel the shame,Muslim.

  • anwarlondon

    It is vital that you make a distinction between Islam and the muslims, and your Pig and Bacon analogy is not a sufficient method of making a fair judgement, Perhaps you should try bieng sincere to yourself and contemplating on some verses of the Quran if you dont have a copy buy one maybe you will see the truth.

    The reason it is vital to make a distinction as I mentioned previously is that the Muslims can act in accordence with Islamic Legislation which many do, or they can be in opossition to Islamic Legislation wich many more do. So if one was to analyse those that adhere to the correct form of Islam the judgment made on islam would be good, as for passing judgment on Islam based on those muslims which claim that oppression and killing unjustly is from Islam than the judment would obviously be bad.
    What I am asking you to do is not to judge by any nation of group or individuals that we see to today, judge Islam by Islam (The Quran and The Authentic Sunnah [way of the Prophet] as Understood and Implemented by the Early muslims)

    As for you saying:
    “Jesus never deputized a posse and went a'nigger lynchin',so your comparison is ridiculous.
    Mohammed on the other hand…….”

    I was hoping you would put some references rather than making a statement based on an assumtion and then ended your baseless claim with …(Dot Dot Dot).

    If you was to bring references than we can authenticate them and analyse them and then get a clearer picture.

    Islam tells us to follow the balanced path. Not bieng to Leanient and not bieng to extreme.

    The correct way is between:
    Bieng those who when attacked turn the other check and not defend themselves and families.

    Nor should we be those that go to extremes and kill unjustly and oprress Claiming theses actions are justfied because as many extremists say “look what they are doing to our brothers and sisters”

    Rather the balanced way is as Allah says in the Quran

    “And fight in the way of Allaah those who fight you, but transgress not the limits. Truly, Allaah likes not the transgressors”

    [al-Baqarah 2:190]

    “Whoever works righteousness, man or woman, and has faith, verily, to them will We give a new Life, a life that is good and pure, and We will bestow on such their reward according to the best of their actions.”

    [Quran, Chapter 16, Verse 97]

    and the Prophets statment:
    “Help your brother whether he is an oppressor or an oppressed,” A man said, “O Allah's Apostle! I will help him if he is oppressed, but if he is an oppressor, how shall I help him?” The Prophet said, “By preventing him from oppressing (others), for that is how to help him.”
    ———-Sahih Bukhari Hadith No. 84 Book 85, Volumune 009 Narrated by Anas (r.a.)

    The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “The best (Jihad) is (to speak) word of justice to an oppressive ruler.”
    ——— Sunan of Abu-Dawood, Hadith 2040

    The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) once told his wife: “Avoid Cruelty and injustice..and guard yourselves against miserliness, for this has ruined nations who lived before you.”
    ——— Riyadh-us-Salaheen, Hadith 203

    The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said “(God) has revealed to me that you should adopt humility so that no one oppressess another.”
    ——— Riyadh-us-Salaheen, Hadith 1589

    The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) once said to one of his companions: “Son, if you are able, keep your heart..free from malice toward anyone.”
    ——— Al-Tirmidhi, Hadith 59

    Abu Bakr as-Siddiq, a companion of the Prophet Muhammad and his successor as head of the Muslim community, advised one of his military commanders: “Do not kill women or children or an aged, infirm person. Do not cut down fruit-bearing trees. Do not destroy an inhabited place.”
    ——— Al-Muwatta, Volume 21, Hadith 9 and 10
    “And fight in the way of Allaah those who fight you, but transgress not the limits. Truly, Allaah likes not the transgressors”

    [al-Baqarah 2:190]
    ——————————————————————————————————————————–
    As for funkybarflys statment :
    “why do you choose the one that is least original,most ignorant and furthest from god?”

    Then Tell me which other Religion Worships God alone correctly and Percieves God Correctly with regards to his attributes. Islam ( and I mean Islam not the ideas of some crazy muslims) is the undiniable truth.
    And I bear witness that There is no Diety Worthy of worship except Allah
    He is the only true God with no partners and Muhamed (pbuh) is his final Slave and messenger.

    Can anyone deny that there is no god but Allah in truth?
    “Produce your proof if you are truthful.” Baqarah 2:111

  • funkybarfly

    “Can anyone deny that there no god but Allah in truth?”
    The vast majority of the world “denies” it,muslim.
    As for my comment regarding Jesus and a'nigger lynchin” and “Mohammed on the other hand…….”,I was merely trying to highlight the disparity between the life of Jesus and the life of Mohammed;the prophet of the partial lunar was one to preach by violent means as he was a murderous git with a propensity for prepubescent girlies,whilst Jesus' life was unblemished.You making the comparison between the KKK and anything remotely Christ-like is preposterous;and anyway,muslims are leaders in the hatred of blacks,same as a slave are they not?
    My point is:the KKK did not have a leg to stand on when invoking Christ as an excuse for their barbarism,yet muslims may claim their unholy prophet as precedent for the very actions that sicken the civilised to their very cores.
    “Abu Bakr as-siddiq companion of the Prophet Muhammad and his successor as head of the muslim community advised one of his commanders:”Do not kill women or children or an aged ,infirm person.Do not cut down fruit bearing-trees.Do not destroy an inhabited place.”
    Well,muslim,one Abu Bakar Bashir of Jemah Islammiah sees things differently when it comes to destroying inhabited places:bali nightclub bombing,and he is alive and active today! You are tiresome,islamic person ,and quoting rubbish from trhat contradictory death manual of yours makes my ears bleed from migraine.
    “Produce your proof if you are truthful.” Baqarah 2:111″
    Where is YOUR proof?;and quoting the koranus to prove yourself is as unacceptable as quoting any other opinion piece,the bible included.

  • http://www.breastpumpdeals.com/avent-isis-iq-duo-breast-pump.html Isis

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  • http://www.breastpumpdeals.com/avent-isis-iq-duo-breast-pump.html Isis

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  • http://www.breastpumpdeals.com/avent-isis-iq-duo-breast-pump.html Isis

    Привет.

    Пользователь Isis пригласил Вас зарегистрироваться на GYXE.com. Возможно на GYXE.com Вы найдёте друзей и откроете для себя что-то интересное и полезное, как это уже сделали многие из наших пользователей.

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    Спасибо,
    Творческий коллектив GYXE.com.

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  • JEWHAWK

    Isis,how clever is to write using the CYRILIC ALPHABET
    on a western blog?

    As I don't know what you wrote,I won't be rude to you
    (for the time being).

  • http://www.breastpumpdeals.com/avent-isis-iq-duo-breast-pump.html Isis

    Привет.

    Пользователь Isis пригласил Вас зарегистрироваться на GYXE.com. Возможно на GYXE.com Вы найдёте друзей и откроете для себя что-то интересное и полезное, как это уже сделали многие из наших пользователей.

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    Спасибо,
    Творческий коллектив GYXE.com.

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  • http://www.breastpumpdeals.com/avent-isis-iq-duo-breast-pump.html Isis

    Привет.

    Пользователь Isis пригласил Вас зарегистрироваться на GYXE.com. Возможно на GYXE.com Вы найдёте друзей и откроете для себя что-то интересное и полезное, как это уже сделали многие из наших пользователей.

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    Спасибо,
    Творческий коллектив GYXE.com.

    (Если ссылки в этом сообщении не работают, скопируйте и вставьте их в адресную строку браузера).

  • http://www.breastpumpdeals.com/avent-isis-iq-duo-breast-pump.html Isis

    Привет.

    Пользователь Isis пригласил Вас зарегистрироваться на GYXE.com. Возможно на GYXE.com Вы найдёте друзей и откроете для себя что-то интересное и полезное, как это уже сделали многие из наших пользователей.

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    Спасибо,
    Творческий коллектив GYXE.com.

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  • JEWHAWK

    Stop crowding this blog with your ASININE BEHAVIOR.

  • hellosnackbar

    Game,set and match FBF.
    What really pisses me off are Muslims quoting the Koranus as an argument from authority.
    “There is no success like failure;and failure's no success at all(Bob Dylan)
    Islam a synononym for failure!

  • hellosnackbar

    Agreed JH ,he /she may; but probably not be making some esoteric point denied to non Russian(possibly non Bulgarian speakers).
    Off topic JH, your English is now of a standard that many native English speakers would be proud of.
    It's amazing to witness your meteoric progress.
    But I'm sure that given the opportunity, the merry troubadours here, will metaphorically shit on him/her
    from a dizzy height; given comprehension.

  • JEWHAWK

    Thank you,hellosnackbar!

    Learning is a rewarding experience.

  • anwarlondon

    I appreciate your hatred.
    And I thank you for proving my poin that I raised in previous posts, which is mainly that: Every muslim does not practice the religion properly so make a distinction between Islam and its followers. Islam is perfect its followers are not. The example that we as muslims are ordered to follow is the way of the prophet PBUH and the way of his companions, although you were actually trying to argue against islam you actually proved it my point.How you may ask?

    you showed the example of abu bakr a saddiq WHICH IS OUR EXAMPLE

    “Abu Bakr as-siddiq companion of the Prophet Muhammad and his successor as head of the muslim community advised one of his commanders:”Do not kill women or children or an aged ,infirm person.Do not cut down fruit bearing-trees.Do not destroy an inhabited place.”
    (This is in the context of war not any normal friday)

    and then you bring forth proof of somthing that completely and utterly contradicts that IE

    “Abu Bakar Bashir of Jemah Islammiah sees things differently when it comes to destroying inhabited places:Bali nightclub bombing,and he is alive and active today!”

    WHICH IS CONTRADICTORY TO THE TRUE ISLAMIC EXAMPLE AS YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE.
    one is just, the other is unjust

    Its almost as if you intended to prove my point
    How could you not see the difference

    As for you saying that muslims are leaders of hatred in blacks, Then this might be true but im not sure the millions and millions of black muslims would agree and if hatred of blacks was from our religion then were does it say that in our scripture (any reference?)

    And as for you asking me where is my proof could you please clariffy what you meant Proof for believing in Allah and the religion of Islam
    (Which I would love to discuss with you without getting into a hate filled arguement)
    or proof for islam not allowing unjust slaughter of innocent lives?
    (Then i feel that YOU have prooved my point and there is no need for further discusions)

    And as for you friend hellosnackbar
    the reason I quated freom the quran is because this is our reference although I am fully aware that you do not belive in it, We do so I was simply clarifying OUR position so that maybe you can understand the true islam properly and then decide if it is true or not ratehr than relying on fox news or any other media.
    This is somthing basic in arguementation which I can understand you may not be aware of. (we learn somthing new everyday)

    A question for all that read this:
    If islam was true and god really did exist and this was the religion he chose for his creation would you accept it????????????????

    (I would like some honest responses and aI have a follow up question that I will put forward in future post once I see some replies or not)

  • funkybarfly

    Then I'll say it one more time as you seem to be a little slow.
    There is no difference between Muslims and Islam:they are one in the same.
    I judge Islam by its actions not by the torpid Taqqiyya it spews to the Infidel audience.
    As for me proving your point by pointing out the murderous activities of Bashir?…you can hold on to that tenuous little victory if you believe,in your little muslim mind,that it is indeed a victory.
    Mohammed was a pedophile and pirate:fact.
    Even if all the bloodshed ensuing from the cries of Alluah Ackbah were merely,as you would have us believe,the misinterpretation of the Koran,then there is an inordinate amount of your coreligionists getting it wrong,don't you think?
    Oh,and do you consider those African blacks who suffer clitoridectomies
    or public floggings for such grave sins as wearing pants among the “millions and millions of blacks” who are grateful for the great advances Islam has thrust upon them?

  • anwarlondon

    I think I will hold on to that little victory as you put it because you still havent substansiated any of your claims with any reference. Am I going to have to address every misconception you have about islam? or are you gonna learn anything for your self.

    As for your statments:

    -Then I'll say it one more time as you seem to be a little slow.
    There is no difference between Muslims and Islam:they are one in
    the same.

    I will Clarify it AGAIN as you seem to be a little bit slowER:
    Islam = Is a religion that hasa belief system aswell as LAWS
    Muslim = is one that belives in islam but can somtimes break these LAWS and act in condtradiction to the religion.

    Let me give you an example of your logic:

    1 ALI is a muslim

    2 ALI eats pork

    3 Conlusion Islam allows Pork

    Where I used pork you used killing and terrorism

    (Im Realy sorry I had to show you at such a basic level but unfortunatly your dont undertsand simple points that Im raising which is sad if according to you i “seem to be a little bit slow”)

    – there is an inordinate number of your coreligionists getting it
    wrong,don't you think?
    Although you where bieng sarcastic (Lowest form of wit) Yes I do think alot of my so called religionists ARE getting it wrong which is very displeasing. Mainly due to a lack of knowledge about Islam as the average muslim does not even no the basics of islamic belief so how do you expect them to know the more detail aspects such as the islamic rulings on war or foregn policy.

    you shouldnt be against islam you should be against ignorant muslims that have a lack of knowledge and undertsanding, which I am firmly against and call for a need to rectify the situation.

    -consider those African blacks who suffer clitoridectomies for the
    crime of being born female?
    This is forbiden within islam
    The traditional cultural practices of FGC predate Christianity and Islam.
    Most Muslims reject this practice in its entirety, however it remains a tradition within certain countries which was not entirely overcome by the arrival of Christianity and Islam. A lack of religious education among these people leads them to mistakenly believe this ancient tribal practice is a religious observance.

    UNICEF reports that:

    “… Al-Azhar Supreme Council of Islamic Research, the highest religious authority in Egypt, issued a statement saying FGM/C has no basis in core Islamic law or any of its partial provisions and that it is harmful and should not be practiced.” In fact, this pre-Islamic barbarity runs contrary to the Islamic tenet which dictates that a man should make sure his wife enjoys their lovemaking.

    Coptic Pope Shenouda, the leader of Egypt's minority Christian community, said that neither the Quran nor the Bible demand or mention female circumcision.

    Obermeyer, Carla Makhlouf (March 1999). Female Genital Surgeries: The Known, the Unknown, and the Unknowable. 13. pp. 79–106. http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0745-5194%2819…. Retrieved 2007-12-
    01.
    “Regarding religious differences, it is now generally recognized that even though a number of the countries where female genital surgeries are found are predominantly Muslim, the practices are not prescribed by Islam and are, in fact, found among non-Muslim groups such as Coptic Christians of Egypt, several Christian groups in Kenya, and the Falasha Jews of Ethiopia……….
    ……..In Kenya, by contrast, prevalence is highest among Catholics and Protestants compared with other religious groups (MYWO 1991). Thus, there is no unequivocal link between religion and prevalence. p.88″.

    Black muslims in America
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZFueqQnops&feat

    The more you argue the more you allow me to propagate the pure unadulterated Islam (Bithinillah) (Unseen in the western media) and at the same time your learning something new! anything else you would like to add, I would be more than happy to clarify your misconceptions

    IF Islam was the truth would you accept it?

  • Bronwyn

    “IF Islam was the truth would you accept it?”
    If lies were truth would you believe them?
    If infamy were virtue would you emulate it?

    All three questions are of the same caliber and have the same answer. Islam is an infamous lie and can never be emulated, believed or accepted.

  • funkybarfly

    Islam is not the truth so I would accept it no more than I would accept a dose of smallpox.I didn't answer that ridiculous poser in the first instance as I didn't want to dignify it with a reply;but there you go,there's another victory for you.
    Yes,genital mutilation is forbidden in Islam,as are all the other sins I expect.So what? I still have eyes!
    Can you give me a text reference where it outlines the difference between Muslims and Islam,particularly the part where it states,”Muslim=one that believes in islam but can sometimes break these LAWS and act in contradiction to the religion”;try that one out in Saudi and let me know how it works out for you;and before you disassociate yourself from the defective kingdom,I will have you acknowledge that Mecca is the Rome of Islam;or else Hajj is a bit of waste of time,is it not.
    You are quick to pick up some of my points but totally ignore others;for example:I said “Mohammed was a pedophile and pirate:fact”,yet you chose to ignore it.Why?
    I mentioned “floggings for women wearing pants”;once again,you chose to ignore it.Why?
    As for your statistics on female genital mutilation,I take your Taqiyya with a mountain of salt;so I shall check your “facts” and correct them summarily in my next post.
    I also mentioned in the previous post that in Arab circles the word for a black was the same as slave;again you chose to ignore it.Why?
    So while you are on your highcamel,accusing me of being “slowER” than you(idiot Muslim),please correct me on these issues and perhaps we can move on.
    So,continue to sing the virtues of your Monster of the Partial Lunar and I'll continue to remonstrate against the horrible political lie that is Islam(Muslims).

  • funkybarfly

    In a nutshell.

  • funkybarfly

    The UN maintains that there are 32 countries that practice FGM in one form or another:16% of the UN membership.
    29 of these states(90%) are Muslim.
    This abhorrent practice may have originated in Africa,it may have even been practiced in the West in the dark old days,and it may be “cultural”;however it is no surprise to anyone where this diabolical misogyny continues to run unchecked;Islam and woman bashing fit like spoons.
    What is it with you Muslims and women?

  • Bronwyn

    Masterfully handled, FBF, and more attention than he deserved.

  • funkybarfly

    Thank you,dear Bronwyn,….
    for finally posting a comment that I don't have to click “like” for.

  • islam786

    hello people !!
    not been on this site for some time but have been amused for the past hour reading some of the posts from certain evil WARMONGERS – Socrates has stated that evil is merley IGNORANCE…

    “We have permitted the enemies of every prophet – human and jinns – to inspire in each other FANCY WORDS, in order to deceive. Had your Lord willed, they would not have done it? You shall disregard them and their FABRICATIONS. This is to let the minds of those who do not believe in the Hereafter listen to such FABRICATIONS, and accept them, and thus EXPOSE their real convictions.” Surah 6:112-113

    “Had your Lord willed, all the people on earth would have believed. Do you want to force the people to become believers.” Surah 10 Verse 99

  • anwarlondon

    If we ASSUME islam is a lie then you would be correct and I would totaly agree with you, it can if we were truthful “never be emulated, believed or accpted.

    But remember your ASSUMING.

    Any proof to back up your claim or are you going to pass judgment on a religion based on some actions of a number of its adherents. Maybe you could even pass judment on islam based on what you hear on cnn or fox , that would be unfair,no?

    only a fool believes statements without proof

    The burden of proof is on you as to why you assume its a lie. Find one lie in the Quran and us muslims are told to dismiss it as a book full of truth Allah gives us a test when he says

    “If this book where from other than Allah (God) you would find in it many discrepencies/errors” Surat an-Nisa: 82

    Therefore if you find ONE than thats it! islam would then be no longer plausable as a truthfull religion.

    TRY IT

    but remember, the quran is in arabic, possible inacuracies may be found in the translations but the not the Original (Translations are not considered as the Quran merely as a translation of the meaning)

    So let me ask you again more bluntly If islam was the ESTABLISHED truth (ie it could be proved) Would you belive???????

    Will they not ponder the Qur'an? If it had been from other than Allah, they would have found many inconsistencies in it. (Surat an-Nisa: 82)

  • SirWilhelm

    Sorry, I for one didn't miss you. If Socrates is right, then Islam is truly evil, because it encourages the worst kind of ignorance through it's demand for unconditional obedience to the Qur'ran. I believe the Creator of All Things gave us minds so that we could learn through questioning the marvelous complexity of his Creation. Unquestioning obedience to any “god” that demands it, makes you an ignorant slave. If that's what you want to be, fine, leave those that appreciate freedom alone.

  • SirWilhelm

    Prove Allah exists, if you can't, Islam is a lie.

  • funkybarfly

    How dare you even utter the name “Socrates” in the same breath as those bastard words from the holy book of ignorance?
    You and your mongrel kin are the exact mind spastics he rejected!
    I saw a picture today of a camel's butt with Mohammad's likeness painted across it.I found it to be most excellent in its pithy accuracy;they should put that picture on the cover of every copy of the Koran worldwide.There's nothing like a good belly-laugh to start the day.

  • islam786

    QURAN 21:30-33 -Are the unbelievers not aware that the heavens and the earth used to be one solid mass and We exploded them out?And that out of water We made every living thing? Will they not, then, acknowledge the Truth?And We have set firm mountain…s(as pegs)on the earth,lest it sway with them.And We have made therein broad roadways so that they might find their way.And We have rendered the sky a canopy well guarded.

    SirWilhelm – God has given all humans free will to either believe in god or not to believe. Sounds to me you do believe in 1 god so i do respect you for that. God promotes the pursuit of knowledge is is a duty for all muslims to seek knowledge. It is very ignorant of you to call me an ignorant slave !!! lol I do have unconditional love for the most high the ceator of the universe.

    “Anyone who disregards the message of God most gracious, we appoint a devil to be his constant companion. The devils then divert them from the path, yet make them THINK that they are rightly guided.” (QURAN 43:36-37)

    “You shall strive in the cause of God as you should. He has blessed you, and imposed no hardship in your religion; the RELIGION OF YOUR FATHER ABRAHAM. Abraham is the one who named you 'Muslims' in the beginning. Thus, the messenger serves as witness among you, just as you serve as witnesses among the people. Therefore, you shall observe the Salat prayers, give the Zakat charity, and hold fast to God; He is you Lord; the best Lord, and the best supporter.” (22:78)

    “These are God's revelations that We recite to you truthfully. In which Hadith other than God and His revelations do they believe?” (QURAN 45:6)

    “These are God's revelations that We recite to you truthfully. In which Hadith other than God and His revelations do they believe?” (QURAN 45:6)

    “…this is not a fabricated Hadith, this (QURAN) confirms all previous scriptures,
    provides the details of everything, and is a beacon and mercy for those
    who believe.” (QURAN 12:111)

  • islam786

    funkybarfly – sorry to infrorm you :
    YOU ARE A EVIL WARMONGER -
    You need help or some love in your life !! in my opinion when someone harms another human they are believed to be out of harmony with themslves and their community, they could be seen as sick or ill and measures should be taken to restore them to a sense of harmoniouss relations with themselves and others.
    You have made fake “friends” on this website to make you feel good about yourself and to justify your evil actions!!! sad case man….

    You are consistently self deceiving, with the intent of avoiding guilt and maintaining a self image of perfection.

    have a good day and may god bless your soul….

  • SirWilhelm

    .The Quran was written circa 700AD, and if you're so familiar with it, you know how. There are texts written at the beginning of civilization, circa 4000AD that tell who created humanity and why. I choose to take them as fact instead of as myths. There are many reasons why I chose to do so, too many to go into here, but the Creator I believe in is not one of those “gods”. I believe Allah is, a humanoid entity that decided to create his own “chosen people” through his own “religious” philosophy to oppose Jehovah's chosen people, and his philosphies contained in his book, the Bible, his enemy's, to continue a conflict between them that had started thousands of years ago, they are immortals, and their wars have been fought by human proxies for much of that time. Those are things you are ignorant of, so you accept the Quran on “faith”. The consequence is that you are an ignorant slave to the philosophy of a humanoid “god” with his own agenda.

  • islam786

    SirWilhelm –

    The word “Allah” is the perfect description of the “One God” of monotheism for Jews, Christians and Muslims!
    “Allah” is the same word used by Christian Arabs and Jewish Arabs in their Bible, centuries before Islam came.
    On page one [1] of Genesis in the Old Testament, we find the word “Allah” seventeen [17] times.

    Allah is a word created by Humans to describe best the conception of God…

    Allah is 1 -before the big bang there was singularity also know as 1
    we are all the product of 1 (singularity)

    “You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them.” (QURAN)17:36

    Allah is not humanoid and i am no ignorant slave – i do agree with you that religions have been used by humans as an excuse to wage wars.. it is a sad thing for sure and im sure many more wars will be fought in the future as evil is present in great force – the devil has been with us since day 1 and his ultimate goal is to destroy the human race which he hi doing very well….

  • islam786

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1189577

    Its a shame news like does not get much press !!!!

  • Kal_El

    Can you send me a link to that picture? I'd love to post it here =D

  • Kal_El

    How is mocking a pedophile, rapist, misogynist named Muhammad make
    funkybarfly an evil warmongerer? FBF did not behead anyone, FBF did not
    marry and violate a child's innocence, and as far as I can tell FBF has not
    exterminated an entire tribe just because they didn't play nice. Those are
    all things Muhammad did, and are documented in the islamic texts.

    The only ones self deceiving are the billion or so fuckheads who worship the
    pedophile Muhammad, and the millions willing to blow themselves up for allah
    so they can bang 72 virgins in paradise.

  • funkybarfly

    Extreme Mohammed

  • funkybarfly

    Anders' side-Extreme Mohammed

  • funkybarfly

    http://b-gjengen.be/index.php?option=com_conten
    For Kal El, and any body else who wants a laugh.

  • funkybarfly

    Kal El,the link to that photo is now at the top of this page.

  • islam786

    i didnt know JEWS had such comments in there holy scriptures? surely this isnt correct or is it??
    Are all JEWS allowed to Steal from Non-Jews ? Do all JEWS have superior legal status??
    Can a JEW maary a 3 year old?? can a jew have sex with any girl as long she is under the age of 9 years old ??
    Looking at the quotes from the Jewish holy scirptures then the answere to all the above questions is YES…
    Am i being ignorant?

    “It is our duty to force all mankind to accept the seven Noahide laws, and if not—they will be killed.” (Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburg, Ma'ariv, October 6, 2004)
    26 October 2009 14:30
    Sanhedrin 58b. If a heathen (gentile) hits a Jew, the gentile must be killed.

    O.K. to Cheat Non-Jews
    Sanhedrin 57a . A Jew need not pay a gentile (“Cuthean”) the wages owed him for work.

    Jews Have Superior Legal Status

    Baba Kamma 37b. “If an ox of an Israelite gores an ox of a Canaanite there is no liability; but if an ox of a Canaanite gores an ox of an Israelite…the payment is to be in full.”

    Jews May Steal from Non-Jews

    Baba Mezia 24a . If a Jew finds an object lost by a gentile (“heathen”) it does not have to be returned. (Affirmed also in Baba Kamma 113b). Sanhedrin 76a. God will not spare a Jew who “marries his daughter to an old man or takes a wife for his infant son or returns a lost article to a Cuthean…”
    Jews May Rob and Kill Non-Jews

    Sanhedrin 57a . When a Jew murders a gentile (“Cuthean”), there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a gentile he may keep.

    Baba Kamma 37b. The gentiles are outside the protection of the law and God has “exposed their money to Israel.”

    Jews May Lie to Non-Jews

    Baba Kamma 113a. Jews may use lies (“subterfuges”) to circumvent a Gentile.

    Non-Jewish Children are Sub-Human

    Yebamoth 98a. All gentile children are animals.

    Abodah Zarah 36b. Gentile girls are in a state of niddah (filth) from birth.

    Abodah Zarah 22a-22b . Gentiles prefer sex with cows.

    Rosh Hashanah 17a. Christians (minnim) and others who reject the Talmud will go to hell and be punished there for all generations.

    Sanhedrin 90a. Those who read the New Testament (“uncanonical books”) will have no portion in the world to come.

    Shabbath 116a. Jews must destroy the books of the Christians, i.e. the New Testament.

    Dr. Israel Shahak of Hebrew University reports that the Israelis burned hundreds of New Testament Bibles in occupied Palestine on March 23, 1980 (cf. Jewish History, Jewish Religion, p. 21).

    Sick and Insane Teachings of the Talmud

    Gittin 69a . To heal his flesh a Jew should take dust that lies within the shadow of an outdoor toilet, mix with honey and eat it.

    Shabbath 41a. The law regulating the rule for how to urinate in a holy way is given.

    Yebamoth 63a. States that Adam had sexual intercourse with all the animals in the Garden of Eden.

    Yebamoth 63a. Declares that agriculture is the lowest of occupations.

    Sanhedrin 55b. A Jew may marry a three year old girl (specifically, three years “and a day” old).

    Sanhedrin 54b. A Jew may have sex with a child as long as the child is less than nine years old.

    Kethuboth 11b. “When a grown-up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing.”

    Yebamoth 59b. A woman who had intercourse with a beast is eligible to marry a Jewish priest. A woman who has sex with a demon is also eligible to marry a Jewish priest.

    Abodah Zarah 17a. States that there is not a whore in the world that the Talmudic sage Rabbi Eleazar has not had sex with. On one of his whorehouse romps, Rabbi Eleazar leanred that there was one particular prostitute residing in a whorehouse near the sea, who would receive a bag of money for her services. He took a bag of money and went to her, crossing seven rivers to do so. During their intercourse the prostitute farted. After this the whore told Rabbi Eleazar: “Just as this gas will never return to my anus, Rabbi Eleazar will never get to heaven.”

    Hagigah 27a. States that no rabbi can ever go to hell.

    Baba Mezia 59b. A rabbi debates God and defeats Him. God admits the rabbi won the debate.

    Gittin 70a. The Rabbis taught: “On coming from a privy (outdoor toilet) a man should not have sexual intercourse till he has waited long enough to walk half a mile, because the demon of the privy is with him for that time; if he does, his children will be epileptic.”

    Gittin 69b. To heal the disease of pleurisy (“catarrh”) a Jew should “take the excrement of a white dog and knead it with balsam, but if he can possibly avoid it he should not eat the dog's excrement as it loosens the limbs.”

    Pesahim 111a. It is forbidden for dogs, women or palm trees to pass between two men, nor may others walk between dogs, women or palm trees. Special dangers are involved if the women are menstruating or sitting at a crossroads.

    Menahoth 43b-44a. A Jewish man is obligated to say the following prayer every day: Thank you God for not making me a gentile, a woman or a slave.

  • anwarlondon

    The Rational Proof

    When we look around at everything we can sense, these things share one factor, and that is that they are all limited. By limited we mean that they have restrictions, a starting point and an ending point, and they all have definable attributes, i.e. they are finite. Man is born and he dies. There is no one alive who will not die. During his life span, he will grow to a certain shape, height and volume. The universe is defined as all the celestial bodies and plants. All these objects have a certain mass, shape, volume and so on. The life span of a star may be very long, but a point in time will come when it will cease to exist.

    The universe is large, but is still a ‘finite’ space. No scientist could ever prove using hard facts that the universe has no bounds. In fact when they say the universe arose from a Big Bang and is expanding they inherently admit it is finite in size, otherwise it could not expand! There is nothing in time and space that is unlimited this also includes time and space itself. No matter how hard we try, man is unable to find anything unlimited around him. All he can perceive is the finite and limited. A further attribute of everything around us is that they are all needy and dependent in order to continue existing. They are not self-sustaining or independent. Man has needs. He has to satisfy in order to survive. He has organic needs. Man must eat and drink if he is to survive. If he does not he will die. We see need and dependency in plants and animals. They depend on other parts of the food chain for existence. The water cycle is dependent on the sun, which is dependent on the laws of the galaxies and burning mass, and so on… Nothing man can perceive is self-subsistent. So things exist, but do not have the power of existence. They cannot control when they die or when other bodies die.

    There is one fact that emerges from all this. If something is limited and finite, and does not have the power to be self-subsistent then it must have been created. Applying this to everything we see will bring us to a conclusion. If everything in the universe is created because it has not the power of being in existence on its own, and is finite and limited, then there must be a creator. This creator by contrast has to be unlimited and not needy and dependent on anything to bring it into, or sustain it’s existence. The universe; the sum of all finite and dependent objects is finite and dependent – but dependent on what? Dependent on something to start and sustain life, and something to plan and develop life. The only rational and intellectual solution to the question of existence of limited things in the universe and the universe itself is that there is a creator who has accounted for all that we see and perceive. Ration tells us that nothing can be created without a creator. And also that no finite thing ie with a begining and an end can just come in to exist without any cause, rather there must be a cause and the athiest claim of what caused the cause ie what caused god is a falacious question based on an assumption that this cause has a beggining in time, when the cause of time itself cannot be inside of time. Ultimately there must be a creator who is unlimited every aspect. Some scientists challenge this with a theory that everything depends on something for existence, which in turn depends upon something for existence, and so on ad infinitum. This theory is irrational, as it does not explain how anything came into existence in the first place. It uses an idea of ‘infinite causes’ that we know does not exist in reality (Infinite regression). It does not even make attempt, to explain the very first step in the sequence. It is illogical and incomplete in its theory, and far from being scientific. If at its basis the theory is weak, how possible to trust the proceeding theoretical argument for creation of the universe?

    Conclusion

    Hence, looking at any planet in the universe, contemplating on any phase of life, or comprehending any aspect of man provides a conclusive evidence for a Creator, what Muslims call Allah(SWT) – This intellectual proof of the existence of Allah(SWT) is an understanding open for everyone and obligatory for all Muslims to be convinced of. Each person must explore to the limit of his understanding. Blind belief has no place in Islam. -Believing through instinctive emotions is unreliable and dangerous as emotions can change and error to ones belief and actions. And if the basis of belief is irrational and weak, how can a system of life be built upon it.

    Allah says in the Quran, the translation of which is as follows:

    Do their minds command them this [i.e. to tell a lie against you (Muhammad SAW)] or are
    they people exceeding the bounds (i.e. from Belief in Allah to disbelief).

    Or do they say: “He (Muhammad SAW) has forged it (this Quran)?” Nay! They believe not!

    LET THEM THAN PRODUCE A RECITAL LIKE UNTO IT (the Quran) IF THEY ARE
    TRUTHFULL.

    WERE THEY CREATED BY NOTHING, OR WERE THEY THEMSELVES THE CREATORS?

    OR DID THEY CREATE THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH? NAY BUT THEY HAVE NO FIRM
    BELIEF.

    Surah at Tur ayah 32-36
    Chapter 52 Versus 32-36

  • anwarlondon

    The Rational Proof

    When we look around at everything we can sense, these things share one factor, and that is that they are all limited. By limited we mean that they have restrictions, a starting point and an ending point, and they all have definable attributes, i.e. they are finite. Man is born and he dies. There is no one alive who will not die. During his life span, he will grow to a certain shape, height and volume. The universe is defined as all the celestial bodies and plants. All these objects have a certain mass, shape, volume and so on. The life span of a star may be very long, but a point in time will come when it will cease to exist.

    The universe is large, but is still a ‘finite’ space. No scientist could ever prove using hard facts that the universe has no bounds. In fact when they say the universe arose from a Big Bang and is expanding they inherently admit it is finite in size, otherwise it could not expand! There is nothing in time and space (ie in the universe and including the universe) that is unlimited. No matter how hard we try, man is unable to find anything unlimited around him. All he can perceive is the finite and limited. A further attribute of everything around us is that they are all needy and dependent in order to continue existing. They are not self-sustaining or independent. Man has needs. He has to satisfy in order to survive. He has organic needs. Man must eat and drink if he is to survive. If he does not he will die. We see need and dependency in plants and animals. They depend on other parts of the food chain for existence. The water cycle is dependent on the sun, which is dependent on the laws of the galaxies and burning mass, and so on… Nothing man can perceive is self-subsistent. So things exist, but do not have the power of existence. They cannot control when they die or when other bodies die.

    There is one fact that emerges from all this. If something is limited and finite, and does not have the power to be self-subsistent then it must have been created. Applying this to everything we see will bring us to a conclusion. If everything in the universe is created because it has not the power of being in existence on its own, and is finite and limited, then there must be a creator. This creator by contrast has to be unlimited and not needy and dependent on anything to bring it into, or sustain it’s existence. The universe; the sum of all finite and dependent objects is finite and dependent – but dependent on what? Dependent on something to start and sustain life, and something to plan and develop life. The only rational and intellectual solution to the question of creation is that there is a creator who has accounted for all that we see and perceive. Ration tells us that nothing can be created without a creator. Ultimately there must be a creator who is unlimited every aspect. Some scientists challenge this with a theory that everything depends on something for existence, which in turn depends upon something for existence, and so on ad infinitum. This theory is irrational, as it does not explain how anything came into existence in the first place. It uses an idea of ‘infinity’ that we know does not exist in reality. It does not even make attempt, to explain the very first step in the sequence. It is illogical and incomplete in its theory, and far from being scientific. If at its basis the theory is weak, how possible to trust the proceeding theoretical argument for creation of the universe?

    Conclusion

    Hence, looking at any planet in the universe, contemplating on any phase of life, or comprehending any aspect of man provides a conclusive evidence for a Creator, what Muslims call Allah(SWT) – This intellectual proof of the existence of Allah(SWT) is an understanding open for everyone and obligatory for all Muslims to be convinced of. Each person must explore to the limit of his understanding. Blind belief has no place in Islam. -Believing through instinctive emotions is unreliable and dangerous as emotions can change and error to ones belief and actions. And if the basis of belief is irrational and weak, how can a system of life be built upon it.

  • anwarlondon

    As allah says in the Quran which is translated below:

    Did they come from nothing or did they create themselves

    or did they create the heavens and the earth

    verily those who disbelieve (in allah) have no firm belief

    Surah at Tur aya 35
    chapter Tur (52) verse 35

  • SirWilhelm

    An excellent presentation. In my own way and time, I have come to the same conclusion, there is a Creator of All Things. However, I don't agree that the Creator is Allah, or even that Allah is Jehovah, or that Jehovah is the Creator either. I have many reasons for that belief, too many to go into here, but many of them are based on the Quran, and Allah's own words, and the actions of his “angel” Gabriel, and his prophet, Mohammed. Examine them, if you haven't already, and ask yourself, are these the words and actions of a spiritual being? You may come to a diffferent opinion, I'm sure most Muslims do, but I don't believe a spiritual being would speak and act the way Allah and his prophet do, or create the kind of “religion” that Islam has become.

  • islam786

    Allah is just a word for God – same as creator, lord, the most high etc etc..
    Mohammads only job was to delivery the message (Quran) the Quran was the last guidance send down to us from the most high. Personally i try to ignore all that Man has written (hadeeths) because Man is influenced by the Devil who works in mysterious ways.
    A true Muslim shouls not and will not follow Mohammad but follw his message the Quran…

    It is hadeeths written by Man that have corrupted Islam. Likewise, written Man made hadeeths written after the revelation of the Torah and the Gospel have corrupted the other 2 Abrahamic relegions…

    “You have NO duty EXCEPT DELIVERING the message.” QURAN 42:48

    “Your ONLY duty is delivering, we will call them to account.” QURAN 13:40

    “The messenger has NO function EXCEPT delivery of the message.” QURAN 5:99

    If you have the time please check out this website : http://www.submission.org
    I can assure it can explain in detail more about this topic…

  • SirWilhelm

    As you well know, Jews and Christians claim that Jehovah is God and Jesus his Son. I could go to great lengths citing passages in the Bible and Quran showing the differences between Allah and Jehovah, and Allah's opinions on Jesus. Since I don't belong to any religion, and I have some knowledge of texts that precede the Bible, I know the roots of the disputes inherent in the Bible and the Quran. This, among other evidence accumlated during my nearly 63 years of life, have led me to conclude that none of these entities is the spiritual Creator of All Things.That you state that you reject the hadeeths is encouraging. Rather than worrying about me submitting to Allah, I encourage you to consider throwing off the chains of enslavement to him by freeing your mind by reading outside all religion. Free your mind and you may free your soul.

  • anwarlondon

    Wilhem, You claim that Islam is not the religion revealed from the creator, and that Allah is not the god Yaweh, and you say that both cannot be this creator, you also say that this is based on the quran or your understanding of it.

    I know you said there are to many reasons why you believe this and you dont wish to go in to them, but you shared with us your belief howeveer you need to show why you dont agree. I understand its your own opinion but please show me why. (i feel ) you have passed judgement on Islam whilst you dont have a firm understanding of it.

    Please show me Why you disagree?

    Also
    You have acknowledged the belief in your creator which is somthing that is presworthy and this I admire. As muslims we believe that belief in Allah the Creator is innate ie Natural to all. If you look at every religion you will see that it is only islam that worships god alone and defines him corectly, all other religions worship either:

    many gods

    God (The Infinite) in the form of finite things such as man or trees etc

    or worship God the creator however use intermediateries to get to him

    Even if people where to worship god alone those who reject islam would still not define this creator correctly, for instance we see people who belive in god but yet say that he is everywhere, this is a non sensical as God cannot be inside of time and outside of time this is known as an oxymoron.

    Rather the only correct view is that Allah is the creator who has no begining or end and is outside of time and outside of the creation, he has a free will, all knowledge and has mercy infact he is the most merciful.

    Wilhelm it is upon you to be sincere and gain knowledge of the true un adulterated islam.

    Im 23 years old and I acknowledge that you are many years my senior and have a vast amount of experience. but if you discovered the truth in your older years would you leave all of this behind or would you continue upon a path that showed hatred to somthing that only proved to be tru (Islam)

    If islam was the truth would you accept it?

    Iqra Bismi rabik al lethee Khalaq
    Read in the Name of your Lord who created you

    Surah Alaq verse 1

  • anwarlondon

    WELL DONE AMIR KHAN, THAT JEW GOT KNOCKED OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

  • anwarlondon

    WELL DONE AMIR KHAN, THAT JEW GOT KNOCKED OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

  • 6203

    Allah is the only true God and you disbelievers will see it on the day of judgment.. and when you die be prepared to meet him and then what will you do? We (true) muslims are glad that we have found the truth and indeed we will be the happiest on the day of judgment Insha Allah.

  • hellosnackbar

    How dare you imply that the imaginary Allah is the one true God;wait till I inform Zeus of your treachery.
    Then you'll pay!
    Sounds silly?
    No more silly than you!
    Day of judgment presided over by Allah the eternally angry,
    What so you do for a living?
    Circus clown?

  • Johnny Blaze

    The owner of the web page has a Hard D*ck for Muslims.LOL What a F*G

  • http://www.WankersAreCool.dum Gary “the Wanker” Rumain

    “I’ll hold back being rude until I know what you said” Typical!

  • http://www.WankersAreCool.dum Gary “the Wanker” Rumain

    Ah comprehension? Would that it made an appearance here!

  • http://www.WankersAreCool.dum Gary “the Wanker” Rumain

    It would be if you tried it more.

  • http://www.WankersAreCool.dum Gary “the Wanker” Rumain

    Look who’s talking a “religious warrior” on a supposed atheist blog.

  • http://www.WankersAreCool.dum Gary “the Wanker” Rumain

    You worship reason?

  • http://www.WankersAreCool.dum Gary “the Wanker” Rumain

    Do you mean past the goalie? 

  • http://www.WankersAreCool.dum Gary “the Wanker” Rumain

    “What so you do for a living”

    Who are you to judge?  If I can’t judge then neither can you.

    But you can attack all right.

  • http://www.WankersAreCool.dum Gary “the Wanker” Rumain

    Allah is the same god, so of people that have a god 1.5 billion X-tians & 1.4 billion Muslims & 15 million Jews… makes 2.90015 billion that believe in Yahweh/God/Allah, plus I’ve seen many Hindu’s worship Jesus along with other gods, but I’m not sure if they should be included or not, so just under 1/2 the worlds population believe in God/Allah/Yahwey (GAY) so your very first statement is incorrect, sorry to say I refudiated all of it based on the two lines.

  • http://www.WankersAreCool.dum Gary “the Wanker” Rumain

    I heard in Oman that Omanis are considered Muslim without Islam something about how they pray. It was esoteric to be at the time, so I didn’t pay too much attention, so again you are incorrect.

  • http://www.WankersAreCool.dum Gary “the Wanker” Rumain

    If lies were the truth, huh?  Please make sense.

  • http://www.WankersAreCool.dum Gary “the Wanker” Rumain

    How can any god be proved? X-tians used to deface carvings in Egypt to prove it and later Muslims would do the same. Does that work for you, defacing religious art?

  • http://www.WankersAreCool.dum Gary “the Wanker” Rumain

    You get so hung up on what you believe Allah is.

  • http://www.WankersAreCool.dum Gary “the Wanker” Rumain

    “Imagine there’s no heaven”  John Lennon.

  • http://www.WankersAreCool.dum Gary “the Wanker” Rumain

    Just like all other leaders do.

  • http://www.WankersAreCool.dum Gary “the Wanker” Rumain

    Like you and your pet Hawk? Probably one sad little abused chicken. 

  • http://www.WankersAreCool.dum Gary “the Wanker” Rumain

    You would bite the breast that feeds you?

  • http://www.WankersAreCool.dum Gary “the Wanker” Rumain

    Good thing X-tians follow the bible to the letter and don’t tale things as allegorical. Oh wait…

  • SirWilhelm

    What does defacing religious art have to do with proving the existence of god? And no, I wouldn’t deface anything, let alone religious art, do you?

  • SirWilhelm

    Don’t you think it’s important, considering what the followers of Allah do in his name? Swearing to be his slaves? Converting non-Muslims through lies, coercion, and killing them if they don’t convert? Following laws, sharia, based on the way people lived circa 1400 years ago? And equally, I feel it’s important that people realize who Jehovah and Jesus really were, especially since Jehovah was on the scene since the beginning of human civilization, and Jesus arrived circa 600 years before Mohammed, yet today, their followers are in constant conflict with each other. Whether you think they are real or not, they have had a profound influence on civilization throughout history, because we are still caught up in a religious war, whether we want it or not, that started at least circa 1400 years ago.

    In a message dated 12/4/2011 11:08:18 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, writes:

    (http://disqus.com/)

    Gary “the Wanker” Rumain wrote, in response to SirWilhelm:
    You get so hung up on what you believe Allah is.

    _Link to comment_ (http://disq.us/4g2sci)

  • Anonymous

    Don’t feed the troll, SirW. The rest of us are ignoring it and letting it convulse.

  • hellosnackbar

    Since according to the evidence of what you’ve written so far ,your deductive powers are somewhat illogical.
    Meaning that your power to judge is compromised by your obvious stupidity.

  • hellosnackbar

    It’s easy if you try.
    No Hell below us above us only sky!
    Mohammedans don’t accept that they think that an eternity of sex and booze awaits them in Allah’s bordello.
    Yet another reason why we laugh at Mohammedans.
    I’m still waiting for a Muslimah to flop her tits out if I’m ever in a room with one.

  • Rob Sullivan

    You bigots shouldn’t knuck it til you try it. My mommy still breast feeds me and I’m 23!

  • Rob Sullivan

    you children are just jealous hateful bigots because no one breast feeds you!

  • Rob Sullivan

    you bigotted children are just ignorant of cultural practices. perhapes if you had been analy raped like I was and enjoyed it like I did you wouldnt be so close minded!

  • Rob Sullivan

    im rob sullivan im a hateful little plastic paddy git who was abused by my alcoholic mother and misogynist father. now i revel in third world cultures and cry bigot and racist at every turn. i wouldnt  know the truth if ti bit me on the ass and i delight in making non sensical posts and trolling where my absurd statements are not even taken with a grain of salt. please keep feeding this need troll love me you bigotted children i am so much better than you despite not being able to tell the truth!

  • hellosnackbar

    I’m wondering if you’re a knacker Gary?
    You certainly have many “knacker” characteristics.
    The most obvious one being banality.

  • Rob Sullivan

    when will you children realize tht i am intellectually and morally superior to all of you? just accept the fact that i am better than you and if i say abusive murderous practices are morally acceptable you sould all just shut up and revere me! you will never refudiate my brilliance

  • Rob Sullivan

    you foul mouthed children will never learn! if you could stop being potty mouths you might be ablre to dialogue with this brilliant superori

  • hellosnackbar

    Does this mean you sodomise your own children in order that they share your past experience?

  • Rob Sullivan

    your right bro they just be jelous of us superior muslims. they get wood bceause we can suck on titty and they cant!

  • Rob Sullivan

    ive got no testicals! i gave those up when i realized i wasn’t man enough to refudiate the nonesense my communist professors were teaching me! so i went with the flow and nutted myself and removed my brain

    im rob sullivan and i approve this message.

  • http://www.WankersAreCool.dum Gary “the Wanker” Rumain

    Nice quote, wish I’d thought of it.

  • http://www.WankersAreCool.dum Gary “the Wanker” Rumain

    Ho hum! more ad homs.

  • http://www.WankersAreCool.dum Gary “the Wanker” Rumain

    Really? Really?

    That is how people tried to prove certain gods didn’t exist. I can’t prove what I don’t believe in, but all religions are of the same value to me, zip. Except Rastas, them I like.

    Why go off in another direction, I wasn’t accusing you of anything Willie.

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