Obama’s pastor Jeremiah Wright: Former Muslim

April 7, 2008by Infidelesto on · Comments

A reader from Free Republic has dug up an old article last year (March 07) From TNR about Obama. It was written by Ryan Lizza, Senior editor at The New Republic. It’s a biographical piece, but in the article, it explicitly states that Jeremiah Wright is a former Muslim.

From Wright and others, Obama learned that part of his problem as an organizer was that he was trying to build a confederation of churches but wasn’t showing up in the pews on Sunday. When pastors asked him the inevitable questions about his own spiritual life, Obama would duck them uncomfortably. A Reverend Philips put the problem to him squarely when he learned that Obama didn’t attend services. “It might help your mission if you had a church home,” he told Obama. “It doesn’t matter where, really. What you’re asking from pastors requires us to set aside some of our more priestly concerns in favor of prophesy. That requires a good deal of faith on our part. It makes us want to know just where you’re getting yours from.”

After many lectures like this, Obama decided to take a second look at Wright’s church. Older pastors warned him that Trinity was for “Buppies”–black urban professionals–and didn’t have enough street cred. But Wright was a former Muslim and black nationalist who had studied at Howard and Chicago, and Trinity’s guiding principles–what the church calls the “Black Value System”–included a “Disavowal of the Pursuit of Middleclassness.’”

The crosscurrents appealed to Obama. He came to believe that the church could not only compensate for the limitations of Alinsky-style organizing but could help answer the nagging identity problem he had come to Chicago to solve. “It was a powerful program, this cultural community,” he wrote, “one more pliant than simple nationalism, more sustaining than my own brand of organizing.”

As a result, over the years, Wright became not only Obama’s pastor, but his mentor. The title of Obama’s recent book, The Audacity of Hope, is based on a sermon by Wright. (It’s worth noting, however, that, while Obama’s book is a coolheaded appeal for common ground in an age of political polarization, Wright’s sermon, “The Audacity to Hope,” is a fiery jeremiad about persevering in a world of nuclear arms and racial inequality.) Wright is one of the first people Obama thanked after his Senate victory in 2004, and he recently name-checked Wright in his speech to civil rights leaders in Selma, Alabama.

So the question is, why hasn’t anyone mentioned the fact that he’s a former Muslim? Could this be why Obama’s church posted a Hamas manifesto in the Trinity Church program last year? It obviously explains Wright’s affinity with Louis Farrakhan. It also explains more why Rev. Wright got his Masters degree in “Islam in West Africa”

This is just another blow to the Obama campaign. The American people are not ready to hand the reins to someone who’s associations are beyond sketchy.

  • Oh.My.Gosh, scandalous!
  • Storm-Rider
    Here is an interesting resource in regards to taqiyya - deception by Muslims. Pretending to be a Christian can be an act of taqiyya.

    "Falsehoods told to prevent the denigration of Islam, to protect oneself, or to promote the cause of Islam are sanctioned in the Qur'an and Sunna, including lying under oath in testimony before a court, deceiving by making distorted statements to the media such as the claim that Islam is a “religion of peace”. A Muslim is even permitted to deny or denounce his faith if, in so doing, he protects or furthers the interests of Islam, so long as he remains faithful to Islam in his heart."

    "Like many Islamic practices, taqiyya was formed within the context of the culture of Arab tribalism, expansionary warfare, Bedouin raiding and inter-tribal conflict. Taqiyya has been used by Muslims since the 7th century to confuse, confound and divide 'the enemy’."

    http://www.islam-watch.org/Warner/Taqiyya-Islam...
  • Why hasn't anyone mentioned this? I've posted on this repeatedly over the past month, and longer. This is old news.

    Rastaman
  • I am not surprised.
  • Who really cares? Rev. Wright isn't running for president. Religion and a good pastor doesn't make you a saint either. Ask George W. Bush.
  • LT
    Clearly Obama, Wright, and the entire congregation of Trinity are super-secret Muslims ready to turn over the key to the White House to the Ayatollah as soon as Obama is elected.
  • This is sooo unimportant to the election. I mean, first Obama is a former Muslim and in most cases people that hear the rumors but don't look for info themselves think he is a muslim. Now this. I mean, if Obama was a muslim, as in, right now..that would matter. But if he and escpecially his pastor were a muslim and converted, more ppower to em'. That takes a lot of faith.

    @Storm-rider, the site you quoted from is called "islam-watch" I wonder if they are biased, in fact, I'd be suprised if they are not extremely rascist. I think this article is about as relevant as an article that says all Islamic people are extremeist. I think the people that follow this are as rare as the terrorists. Give me a break and lets get some real sources of information. I mean do you honestly think that Rev. Writght or Obama are using this...if not, why are we takling about it at all. This is the type of stuff that makes ignorant people more ignorant. You may know that it is not relevant, but people that read it or hear about it will take it seriously and tell all their ignorant friends and family. And please do not confuse ignorant with stupid, i'm just talking about people that are not interested in politics and go based on what they hear from friends and family.

    Nick @ Inbetween Politics

    P.S. I do not support Obama, so this is not a comment for the purpose of supporting Obama...just truth in general.
  • franglo
    He is also a former marine.
  • In 1961, a young African-American man, after hearing President John F. Kennedy's challenge to, "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country," gave up his student deferment, left college in Virginia and voluntarily joined the Marines. In 1963, this man, having completed his two years of service in the Marines, volunteered again to become a Navy corpsman. (They provide medical assistance to the Marines as well as to Navy personnel.)

    The man did so well in corpsman school that he was the valedictorian and became a cardiopulmonary technician. Not surprisingly, he was assigned to the Navy's premier medical facility, Bethesda Naval Hospital, as a member of the commander in chief's medical team, and helped care for President Lyndon B. Johnson after his 1966 surgery. For his service on the team, which he left in 1967, the White House awarded him three letters of commendation. What is even more remarkable is that this man entered the Marines and Navy not many years after the two branches began to become integrated.

    While this young man was serving six years on active duty, Vice President Dick Cheney, who was born the same year as the Marine/sailor, received five deferments, four for being an undergraduate and graduate student and one for being a prospective father. Presidents Bill Clinton and George W. Bush, both five years younger than the African-American youth, used their student deferments to stay in college until 1968. Both then avoided going on active duty through family connections.

    Who is the real patriot? The young man who interrupted his studies to serve his country for six years or our three political leaders who beat the system? Are the patriots the people who actually sacrifice something or those who merely talk about their love of the country?

    After leaving the service of his country, the young African-American finished his final year of college, entered the seminary, was ordained as a minister, and eventually became pastor of a large church in one of America's biggest cities.__This man is Rev. Jeremiah Wright, the retiring pastor of Trinity United Church of Christ, who has been in the news for comments he made over the last three decades.

    Since these comments became public we have heard criticisms, condemnations, denouncements and rejections of his comments and him. We've seen on television, in a seemingly endless loop, sound bites of a select few of Rev. Wright's many sermons. Some of the Wright's comments are inexcusable and inappropriate and should be condemned, but in calling This him "unpatriotic," let us not forget that this is a man who gave up six of the most productive years of his life to serve his country.

    How many of Wright's detractors, Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly to name but a few, volunteered for service, and did so under the often tumultuous circumstances of a newly integrated armed forces and a society in the midst of a civil rights struggle? Not many. While words do count, so do actions. Let us not forget that, for whatever Rev. Wright may have said over the last 30 years, he has demonstrated his patriotism.

    Lawrence Korb and Ian Moss are, respectively, Navy and Marine Corps veterans. They work at The Center For American Progress. Korb served as assistant secretary of Defense in the Reagan administration.

    This piece ran in the Chicago Tribune on April 3, 2008.

    oh, and hello again.
  • semus
    Richard

    What you wrote exemplifies why we are in very big trouble. The stupidity and ignorance displayed above "They are 2 different things". Oh yes what a patriot Wright is, the line forms at the rear to get your head sawed off.

    The founding fathers had stellar military records didn't they. Hitler fought in WWI, so he was a patriot so of course everyone should follow him. A little heads up, you are not a patriot in America if you hate your country. Wright spews ignorance, stupidity, and hatred.

    Where would the Democrats be without Ignorance, Stupidity, and Hatred. As a voter you should be angry that they know they can count on this from you. I repeat we are are in trouble.
  • Well, crud. Now I don't know if I like Wright better or not, learning this.
    OK, NOT.
  • David
    >>>>Who is the real patriot? The young man who interrupted his studies to serve his country for six years or our three political leaders who beat the system? Are the patriots the people who actually sacrifice something or those who merely talk about their love of the country?

    I didn't see the Rev. Wright consider Colin Powell's honorable service in the military when he was busy calling him a house slave. Seems you Libturds want it both ways. Well, you ain't gonna have it both ways. If military service doesn't immunize Colin Powell from the vicious attacks he receives from Leftwingers and traitors like Wright, then I don't see Wright being immunized either. Dem chickens iza cumen hom to rust.
  • David
    ps., Lee Harvey Oswald served in the Marines. Just like Wright. Enough said. Thanks for playing.
  • In 1956, inspired by his older brother's service, young man enlisted in the U.S. Marine Corps a week after his 17th birthday. Though he qualified as a sharpshooter and marksman, he trained as a radar operator, and was granted security clearance to handle classified materials including those labeled CONFIDENTIAL. He was assigned first to Marine Corps Air Station El Toro in Irvine, California then to Naval Air Facility Atsugi in Japan. Atsugi was a base for the top-secret CIA U-2 spy planes that flew over the Soviet Union.

    How dare we question such a person's patriotism? I mean, just because he was a staunch communist, emigrated to the Soviet Union, and then later killed a US president, we can't call him unpatriotic. After all, he served his country while all those nasty guys like Rush Limbaugh avoided service.
  • ronnor
    Maybe the man who was seen on YouTube was his twin brother, couldn't have been this sterling gentleman who was a Marine. Marine's wouldn't say "God Damn America" because they love the US of KKK and A and a good Marine wouldn't say the "Chickens came home to roost and 3000 incenereated people deserved to die that day. A good Marine wouldn't be a secret Moslem pretending to be a Christian and a good Marine wouldn't be practicing taqiyya [the act of lying about ones real faith.] Yep, has to be that twin brother of 'Rev. Wright's' he's always causing problems, every body know that.
  • i love this. i post an article about a man's patriotism, and then you all rush to attack it. Lee Harvy Oswald shot a guy, all Wright has done is express his opinion. Oswald used his training as a marine to the detriment of America, Wright is simply expressing his opinion.

    And we have the gall to call him a bad person. for excersing the First Amendment.

    For shame, and you call yourselves conservatives!
  • David
    >>>And we have the gall to call him a bad person. for excersing the First Amendment.

    Fantastic. Wright exercises his First Amendment rights to crap on the country that affords him those First Amendment rights. What a hero! Yeah, I guess I have the "gall" to call him a bad person for that. Better yet, a traitorous dog and a scumbag. His military service doesn't make him a patriot anymore than it did Lee Harvey Oswald. Only difference is Oswald had the courage of his convictions while Wright doesn't. Both equally traitorous though.
  • Tex
    "God damn America", "Chickens came home to roost"
    Obama is still in with a chance after that? Really, what's up over there in the good ol' US of A. This is creeping me out, it really is.
  • TS
    Not surprising since the man is obviously brimming over with hatred. I never understant black Muslim who are pissed at 'whitey' obver slavery but find a kinship with the very people who originally enslaved black Africans, Muslim Arabs! And in fact, still enslave black Africans today! Chattel slavery, and nary a peep from black people, except to condemn white people. All I can think is that they are racists, plain and simple, and they dont REALLY give a flying f about slavery.
  • Paul from Florida
    So, young man Wright does the right thing. The thing you are supposed to do. Like get a job, take care of your family, serve in the military. You are supposed to do that. That's expected.

    And of course Benedict Arnold served too.
    That's the thing about being a traitor. You first have to be a patriot....then..you turn against.

    Anyways, Obama is just running the sidelines between black racist backwaters and white liberal affirmitive action dreams. He's finally, after trillions of dollars spent, entire cities ruined, a fairly presentible boy of the liberal plantation.
  • Scion9
    Islam-watch is a website run by Muslim apostates. That is, it is run by former Muslims just like Rev. Wright and Barack Obama. So, if they are rabid 'racists' (racist against a religion apparently) then they are self-hating racists.

    "8. "Islam Watch" will be dominated by ex-Muslims and moderate Muslim writers. We will make some room for non-Muslim writers to gauge how the non-Muslim world grasps the truth about Islam.
    "

    The above from their mission statement.

    I doubt Rev. Wright is engaging in taqiyya, or kitman, especially considering that although it is sanctioned in some schools of Islamic thought, it is mostly passed down culturally, through a culture that is alien to Wright. Nation of Islam have never exactly been that stealthy, or sly, and neither is Wright.

    I do however seriously doubt that Rev. Wright, just like the Nation of Islam, are actually religious and just use religion as a mask for a political and social ideology that is in no way spiritual in nature. A Christian branch of Nation of Islam, and its black liberation theology. The Nation of Islam itself is not really Muslim. It cherry picks what it wants out of Islam and abandons its Arab roots, it abandons Sharia and whatever else it feels like.

    Trinity is no different when it comes to Christianity. Totally willing to rewrite history and theology for the sake of fitting it within a racist, black supremacist
    framework, including going along with the Islamic replacement theology of the reverse roles of the sons of Abraham, that is preached by Rev. Wright to anti-semitic effect.

    Rev. Wright's church is simply the black version of the white supremacist Christian Identity church, and the Christian version of Nation of Islam.
  • Hening
    Lee Harvey Oswald was also a former Marine. That is not a status that wipes away hypocrisies, racism and a life of lies. Wright has placed himself in direct opposition to the goals of this nation in terms of liberty and justice for all. He clearly prefers the company of Muslim fascists and his congregation of zombie's includes a US Senator that wishes to become President and holds him as a mentor figure. Wright is a racist and a spewer of hatred on parallel to anything the KKK ever produced, and has the evil intention to try and pass along his bile as biblical. You can't make this stuff up.
  • jimm
    Obama is a racist, traitorous scumbag. End of story.
  • Andrew
    Richard - you are SERIOUSLY disillusioned! All Oswald did was shoot "a guy"? "Wright is simply expressing his opinion"??? Both are horrible people regardless of their service. Service doesn't make you good for all time. And the notion that ALL Wright did was express his opinion is ludicrous. No, that's not expressing an opinion. That is EDUCATING literally THOUSANDS of people from the pulpit. Being in the pulpit gives you a LOT of influence. I can walk around and spew all the hate I want but who will listen? That is freedom of speech. Spewing his "Christian" brand of Islam from the pulpit is ENTIRELY different. As David said "Thanks for playing." And you can stop trying to bash us with the freedom of speech bit anyway. We would have to be complete idiots (which Muslims hope we are) to allow anyone to keep on spewing what will lead to our deaths. That is NO room for that in freedom of speech. Besides you killed your entire argument with this nonsense "the site you quoted from is called “islam-watch” I wonder if they are biased, in fact, I’d be surprised if they are not extremely rascist." Racist huh? SUUUUURE RICHARD. So you do all your research on what a great service member Wright was and it was just research. Someone else does some research on just how insidious Muslims can be in the spread of Islam and they are, not just a little but "EXTREMELY RACIST". Nice. That says a lot. Again, thanks for playing.
  • Kastrioti
    Nick said....

    "...the site you quoted from is called “islam-watch” I wonder if they are biased, in fact, I’d be suprised if they are not extremely rascist...."


    Hey genius, did you actually check out the site before you voiced your ignorant opinion?

    Islam-watch is a site run by FORMER MUSLIMS, think they may have a better understanding of the religion than you do???????

    And Racist? Islam ISN'T a RACE!
  • JeffinSac
    This is just another blow to the Obama campaign. - Sorry no, it would only be a blow if the MSM reported it and I doubt they will.
  • Lowell
    Al the different dates out there for Wrights's "service and education make me suspicious of his record.
    In the USMC you qualify for Marksman OR Sharpshooter, NOT Both.
    There are no "validictorians" in military classes.
    I have seached the "Buddy Listings on the Military.com site of honorable disharched veterans; he's not there.
    W E need to wake the U.S. to the meaning of "Taqiyya".
    Semper Fi
  • Rudy
    David,

    Nice shot! :D

    Tex,

    Don't be too worried, in 2006 when the Dhimmicrats were given Congress, liberal hippie cowards celebrated the impending surrender in Iraq. Oh wait, IT DIDN'T HAPPEN. We will not allow Obama to run our great nation into the gutter.

    Andrew,

    You must forgive Richard, as it is difficult for him to see the world as it is, what with his head up his ass. Of course islam-watch is biased. It is run primarily by EX-muslims who have experienced the brutality first hand, and still managed to get educated, use their brains, and realize that islam is a death cult that exploits the illiterate and the uneducated by telling them that if they blow themselves up and take out a few unbelievers they go to an orgy in the afterlife. Why would anyone be biased against that?
    As for the racist part, that is a weak, pathetic argument (then again most liberals are weak, pathetic humans), as islam is practiced by arabs, caucasians, blacks, orientals, and hispanics.
  • megapotamus
    Just cuz Obama was raised a Commie doesn't mean he is one now; just because he was raised Muslim for a time doesn't mean he is one now; just because Wright was a Muslim doesn't mean he is one now but presumably these "conversions" if they occured were predicated on some event, philosophical breakthrough or life change that would be vital to any reasonable examination of "character" which both Dems are running on since they have no experience. So let's hear Obama tell us why his old Commie dad or his buddy Bomber Bill Ayers or Wright are not merely wrong but obviously and offensively wrong, since he, natch, claims outrage and offense now.

    On another note.... If Wright converted from Islam to Christianity or anything, isn't he subject to a fatwa that calls for his head? I mean, unless the jihadis think this is another, more clever, furtherance of jihad? I'm just sayin'....
  • Tom R
    You've conveniently lumped Black Muslims in with mainstream Muslims. Mainstream Muslims have never recognized Malcolm X's and Louis Farrakhan's Nation of Islam as real Muslims, but tend to consider Black Muslims some weird non-Islamic cult borne in America's African-American communities far from Mecca.

    For a time in his youth maybe Rev. Wright was a black Muslim. That hardly makes him a terrorist or anyone even remotely close in extremism or religiosity to the likes of al-Qaeda. Rev. Wright is Congregational minister now -- that's the same church Roger Williams founded in the 1600s as the colony of Rhode Island broke off from Massachusetts. Hardly Islamic, but quite Protestant and quite American.

    False guilt-by-association is an old technique of defamation by the far-right in this country. You seem to be keeping up the tradition nicely. Just don't go calling it a patriotic to mislead your own countrymen about the backgrounds of some of its citizens. Defamation is not patriotism; it's just defamation. And defamation contributes to prejudice and paranoia instead of tolerance and security.
  • “…the site you quoted from is called “islam-watch” I wonder if they are biased, in fact, I’d be suprised if they are not extremely rascist….”

    Richard, what's your assessment of Rev. Wright's endorsement of the notion that Israel has developed a biological weapon that kills only Arabs and blacks? Please explain how this isn't a modern blood libel.
  • E Buzz Miller, Rev Dr
    "all Wright has done is express his opinion."

    Yeah, but maybe you should consider that whole visiting Kaddafi with Rev. Dr. Louis thing.

    I wouldn't call that expressing his opinion, I'd call that siding with the enemy.

    So can we extrapolate or infer anything from that, or is that off limits to consideration by white people?
  • Nathanael Greene
    Wait a minute...I thought the Boy President Clinton was a liberal hero precisely because he *didn't* go into the military. Wha...?

    And so what if Wright was in the miltary? George Lincoln Rockwell, founder of the American Nazi Party and author of "White Power", was in the Navy in WWII. Does that make him less of a racist bigot?

    Finally, doesn't Wright's status as an ex-Muslim mean he deserves death as an apostate, according to the "religion of peace'"?
  • Rudy
    Bozoer,

    I would not hold my breath waiting for a rational, logical reply from Richard. After all he is suffering from a cranial rectal inversion, which is causing a compression on his carotid artery, limiting the flow of blood to his brain, which is why we see such drivel.
  • Dee
    I heard about this long before it was even made public. As a christian myself that was formerly muslim, I still say no big deal. I just believe I was on the wrong track when I chose to be a muslim. Once I heard the truth. I couldnt' deny it. Clock on Dee's Blog to learn more information on where I am today as a Christian on http://deespence.com
  • Instead of speculating on the maximum ugliness this knowledge could indicate, let's look at the minimum. Wright's conversion does not seem to be from Muslim (black) to Christian (black), but from Black Muslim to Black Christian, with the racial emphasis being primary in both cases. We should not therefore conclude that he is a Muslim stalking horse. The most we can be sure of is that he might be overly tolerant of Islamic terrorism when originates from people of color or targets whites, not that he would be any participant or even encourager. Obama's parallel conversion tells us much the same. The danger is not in active support he might give to any terrorist or islamic causes, but his willingness to look the other way or cut too much slack to America's enemies if they embraced a racial rhetoric.

    That's worrisome enough in itself. There's no need to try and make it appear violent or treasonous when it isn't. Its danger is real, but more passive than active.
  • I can't wait to vote for my Muslim Overlords in November.

    I'm sure it can't be worse than the unmitigated idoiticy we've been living under for 7 years. Yay for Republicans!
  • Sambe
    Everyone should vote for Mr.Obama because he's bringing peace and prosperity not only in the United States but around the world.-I believe in that he's one of those messengers that God sends to help the whole nation.
  • Charles
    Im confused. I know Obama is running for president. And we must examine his
    judgement, but "my goodness" All this crap about Rev. Wright to try to scare whites
    into believing Obama is a "Black Power" guy is a bit ridiculas. And just reading these comments makes me wonder what type of "Christianity" is practiced here. Calling for these mens heads, awesomely resembleing the tactics of a lynch mob, that would quickly assemble if the mere thought that a "black" had got out of line. We will show him! They would yell. Now have moved on from the dark past, but have we?

    Have Rev. Wright fought for this country as a marine and earned the right to speak his mind without it being a scandal. Whites are so quick to take credit for how far this country has come, but when stuff like this happens they may need to look at themselves a little closer. Black citizens can love this country without acting is if this country is not capable of commiting some hanas acts. Back in the day, as well TODAY. Come on now keep it real. You conservative "Revisionist".
  • Rudy
    Sambe,

    The only thing Obama is doing is uniting everyone against him, and his far left loony ideals. How in the hell can you equate him surrendering Iraq, and "talking" with a country that wants to exterminate Israel (Iran) to bringing peace? Are you suffering from the same affliction as Richard?
  • JimBaker
    Barak Hussein Obama is the most dangerous politician the communists on the left have ever put forth. He is not the last, and presumably not the worst they will do, but he is the first who has complete disregard for our constitution. I think we will survive this time, but we won't always survive. Someday the communists on the left will manage to foist a trojan horse on us. With their control of the Democrat party, of the media, of the judiciary, and of the education system, it is just a matter of time. No optimism here. We have paved the road to hell and we are traveling on it. I just want to go slow. McCain for president.
  • David
    Wright converted to christianity because the job of hateful Muslim demagogue was already taken by Louis Farrakan.
  • Well Said Charles! I was beginning to fear that i was the only person that actually thinks on this website.

    Rudy, please dont associate me with Sambe. I was just as disgusted, if not more so, by his statement as you.

    Jim... really? Communists? Communists control the Democratic party AND the media AND the judiciary AND the education system? wow. we are really screwed. how in the world have we lasted this long!!!??!?

    okay, im better now. Democrats can barely control themselves, and with any sort of guidance they would probably be putting up a much better fight than they are now. If anything, their incompetance is proof of their innocence.

    A smarter man than me once said, "A true conservative is one who can't see any difference between radicalism and an idea"
  • Charles
    Ok its like this. I dont like rock music. Have never been a fan. So if I were to go to a concert with the hottest rock group out there, and then begin to criticize their music, and their act. And pick apart everything wrong with the concert would be stupid of me.

    I dont like the music form so it wouldnt matter how good or bad the act was. The same way alot of people are claiming objectivity when lending their "no spin" view of Obama.
    It wouldnt matter what he did, or didnt do. You wouldnt care for him as your choice regardless. So stop with all of these nasty comments about our next president. Yeah I bet some of you never imagined you would be calling a brother "Mr. President" Boy I love it! Isnt this the greatest country in the world?
  • "Yeah I bet some of you never imagined you would be calling a brother “Mr. President” Boy I love it! Isnt this the greatest country in the world?"

    No racial animus or stereotyping here. No, not at all.

    Keep keeping it real and sticking it to the man. Word up!

    Oh, and Richard, I'm still waiting on your explanation of how Wright is not engaging in a modern day blood libel by accusing Jews of creating biological weapons that target Blacks and Arabs only.
  • David
    >>>Isnt this the greatest country in the world?

    I'm glad you think so! We agree. Heck, we're conservatives. We cornered the market on this is the greatest country in the world. Remember?

    Instead try telling that to Michelle O. She doesn't seem to think it's all that great at all. Not too proud of our country says the angry woman who wants to be our First Lady. She thinks this great country is "downright mean." Remember?

    Neither does Rev. Wright, the bitter guy who would swear in Michelle O's husband at the White House. He's not too fond of it either as I recall.
  • "Well Said Charles! I was beginning to fear that i was the only person that actually thinks on this website."

    It surely is persuasive when you call people who disagree with you idiots.
  • Storm-Rider
    Richard,
    "Jim… really? Communists? Communists control the Democratic party AND the media AND the judiciary AND the education system?"

    Communist ideology, now known as Marxist, Progressive or Socialist ideology is alive and well in Europe and in leftist America.

    http://www.americanthinker.com/printpage/?url=h...

    http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/2125/print

    http://freebooks.entrewave.com/freebooks/docs/a...

    http://www.robertlstephens.com/essays/shafarevi...

    I hate Communism, Marxism, modern radical Socialism and Progressivism. I hate those ideologies, which are alive in America on your side, because they are evil ideologies.

    I love America because this nation was conceived in God-given liberty, and liberty is alive in America - it is the beating heart of America.

    America stands for equality of opportunity and equality before the law. Communism, Marxism and radical Socialism stand for economic equality enforced by a totalitarian Socialist state - equality of a low order for the ordinary man, but of course a high order for the ruling Socialist elite.

    America stands for God-derived and irreversible human rights - the right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. Radical Socialism, i.e.: Communism, stands for government-derived human rights - those, of course can be reversed or ignored at will by the elite Socialist rulers.

    America stands for government which derives its power from the consent of the governed, and where the people have been declared to have the right to alter or abolish its government if it becomes destructive of their rights to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. Communism and radical Socialism rule in spite of the will of the governed, and without their consent. Communist and radical Socialist rulers despise the "little people" that our founding fathers died to empower in this blessed nation.

    Richard, one thing I haven't heard from you: Do you love the America I've described above - the America envisioned in the Declaration of Independence?

    Richard, will you state publically that you hate Communism, Marxism, radical Socialism and all such ideologies?
  • Bozoer, i would Love to answer that quote, if you would please show me the article, or at least some proof, that he actually said that. Although i am a Socialist, i am not stupid, you cannot just make up random stuff and expect me to believe it.

    Storm-Rider. I still have quite a bit of respect for you, just wanted to get that out there. And i really enjoyed reading those articles, i will probably be printing them out and reading them more later, if for nothing more than laughs. But you are probably correct, i do have some clarification to do. There are so many movements claiming to be Radical and Socialist now, that you really cannot tell what a person believes simply by assuming. Thank you for giving me the chance.

    I am not a Marxist.in fact, he was quoted as saying, "The first requisite for the happiness of the people is the abolition of religion." which i disagree with utterly and completely. Hell, not even Marx was a Marxist, and Karl Marx publicly, and loudly, denounced the Soviet and Chinese "Communist" parties.

    I am not Communist. I realize that it will never work, a state-enforced equality-for-all is just like saying, "We treat everyone like dirt, but at least we treat everyone like dirt equally". however, i do not hate communists. people who are communist and Marxist, while i may disagree with them, honestly believe that they are working for the betterment of everyone.

    I did laugh, though, when you combined three words that i never thought would i would ever see together. "Elite Socialist Rulers". If someone claims to be elite, they are not Socialist. If someone Claims to be a ruler, they aren't Socialist unless they rule democratically. Socialism is not the destruction of Freedom, Socialism is the Extension of Freedom and Democracy into the
    Economy as well as the Government. Here is where we all get mixed up.

    Socialism is based on Communism, in the same way Glass is based around Sand. You cannot have Glass without working with Sand, but Glass does not share very many properties with Sand. In the same way are Socialists based around Communists. Without Communists and their extremely radical views, we rational socialists would not be able to figure out what would actually work.

    Well, that's the best analogy i can think up right now, maybe more later. Did this answer any of your questions about what i believe? maybe i should just come out and state it.

    I believe in Democracy, both of the Government and of the Economy
    I believe in Production for use, not for Profit
    I believe in Complete Freedom of the People
    I Believe in Government Regulation of the Economy
    I Believe in Individual Rights above all else
    and I Believe that every one is equal, not the same, but equal.
  • Scion9
    I don't know where you are getting your definition of socialism from. It seems likely that you are only adhering to one you defined for yourself. You can have elites in a socialist society, and you can rulers in a socialist society. Socialism is simply a socio-economic system, in which private property is eliminated.

    The managing of communal property can be handled by an elite, ruling class in a socialist society and it would still be a socialist society.

    You can have socialism under a dictator, where the community owns the goods, but only the dictator gets to say how, and when they use those goods.

    Communism is a classless and stateless system, which can only exist in a world where everyone is complicit to live in a classless society. Enforcing the classless status of course creates a class clash between the enforcers and the enforced and you again have elite rulers telling the communal owners how they can use their own commuanl property, hence an elite ruling class.

    Socialism relies on an authoritarian power, rather a ruler, or an elite class to determine what is best for everyone else. If that wasn't necessary because everyone agreed on the best uses of communal property, then there wouldn't be any need for socialism, and we would have communism, which is the next step along the path. The step that never comes to fruition, because it only exists in a fantasy land, envisioned by a demented mind, that viewed a possibility of absolute compliance and complicity across the breadth of the entire world while simultaneously expressing his hatred of 99% of the world's population and their belief systems, and a special place in his black heart for the Jews, who were the cause of all the world's evil.

    Of course, Marx, Lenin and their later intellectual progeny view themselves the same way. An intellectual elite who know better than the rest of us, and disdain the rest of the world's foolish notions. Only these few elites know the true path.

    Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama have expressed viewpoints that are almost direct quotes of Comrade Lenin. That the State must progress to a point where it promotes the Greater Good.

    Of course, the State is the only entity capable of doing this, and those entities that compete with the State are in fact enemies of the Greater Good regardless of their philanthropistic bent, or efficiency compared to our simultaneous inept, cronied, nepotised, tribal and elite ruling class in DC and in Academia.

    Of course, the 'Greater Good' in itself is something that needs to be enforced. The 'Greater Good' is liberty, in which individuals choose what is best for them, and take individual responsibility for their actions. The elite, socialist leaning rulers know better than we simpering children, and must have the 'Greater Good' enforced on us. In fact, it seems like liberty isn't in the category of 'good' at all.

    Just remember, bring your own shovels to the train station comrade, because you won't be provided with one, and you don't want to lose your fingers in the dirt.
  • Scion9
    Correction from above...

    "
    Of course, the ‘Greater Good’ in itself is something that needs to be enforced. The ‘Greater Good’ is not liberty, in which individuals choose what is best for them, and take individual responsibility for their actions. The elite, socialist leaning rulers know better than we simpering children, and must have the ‘Greater Good’ enforced on us (whatever it is). In fact, it seems like liberty isn’t in the category of ‘good’ at all.
    "
  • David
    Plenty of elites under socialism and communism. You know, the party aparatchiks that live in the lake-side dachas while the rest of us live in dystopian squalor. The elites that make the rules for all the rest of us cud-chewing masses. Thoe elites that force us into public transportation while they fly high over us in the government paid jets. You know, those elites. That this comes as news to you just shows what a limited bubble you're coming from.
  • In the USMC you qualify for Marksman OR Sharpshooter, NOT Both.
    There are no “valedictorians” in military classes.


    Exactly. That "valedictorian" and marksman sharpshooter stuff is bullshit. Not taqiyyah--just bullshit.

    Also, Timothy McVeigh was a veteran, and so was the Beltway Sniper (John Allen Muhammad), just to name a couple notorious ones off the top of my head.
    I'm also a veteran, so I expect nobody will ever question what I have to say!

    THAT SAID...all this story says to me is that Jeremiah Wright was once in the NOI, but now he isn't. But is his current version of Christianity any better? To me, no--it's the same thing, cloaked in different religious beliefs. It's still radical, "revolutionary," FAR-left crap that uses religion as a means of recruitment and financial gain. I'm not saying Wright and his ilk aren't believers, but Wright is certainly a charlatan as well. It's all about black separatist, collectivist ideology, which is what's at the core of Wright's beliefs.

    What does this NOI business have to do with teh Obamessiah? Nothing specifically, except it shows another angle of his "spiritual mentor," from whom he chose to be educated in "religion" and otherwise. This is the kind of person he holds in high esteem--high enough to make him a part of his childrens' lives.

    Shall we expect people like Jeremiah White in Obama's cabinet or White House staff? How about William Ayers?

    @Richard:
    You are a fool.

    If someone Claims to be a ruler, they aren’t ANARCHIST unless they rule democratically.

    Fixed that hilarious pile of bovine feces for you. What are you, some dimwit teenager? Come back in a few years after you have had a few years of the real world behind you. In the meantime, try reading something other than the crap that appeals to your rebel-wannabe ("I hate my dad!") childishness. You sound like a little sheep spewing that ridiculous nonsense, obviously fed to you by your shepherds.
  • Storm-Rider
    The trouble with Communism and Socialism is that they are both in their hearts forms of tyranny over the minds and lives of people. Socialism is not stagnant - it is moving toward total control of the lives of ordinary people - totalitarianism. This is because once an elite class of people taste power over the lives, liberty and economic well-being of the "little people" they want more and more control - power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Socialism is now the nanny state, but it will lead to a tyrannical state - government of the elite, by the elite and for the elite.

    Tyranny was defined by our founding fathers in the Declaration of Independence as any government which does not derive its power from the consent of the governed, and where the government becomes destructive of the peoples God-given (not government-given) rights to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. Socialists do not govern with the consent of the governed, and Socialism is destructive of both liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Socialism only differs from Communism at this point in history in that it has not yet become destructive of individual life. When that time comes, and it will unless it is stopped, Socialism will just be another Orwellian word for tyranny.

    Our founding fathers were familiar with the tyrannical Socialist movements and states of medieval and ancient times, and they could have established America as a Socialist state. They didn't because of their wisdom - they knew that individual liberty is not only a God-given right; it works in real life as the best means for people to pursue happiness. True individual liberty releases the innate creativity of the human mind and that is, along with human love, the key to our pursuit of happiness. When the Socialist state taxes the working man past a certain point his creativity is snuffed out - why be creative and work hard if the rewards are scooped up by the Socialist state and "redistributed?" This is also true on the receiving end – why, if able-bodied, be creative and work hard if the rewards of someone else's work come without effort? Socialism and Communism are the enemy of human creativity, and therefore the enemy of the pursuit of happiness.

    Our founders were not European philosophers with unworkable visions of perfected humanity and godless utopia - our founding fathers were in fact geniuses. They factored in the element of human evil within the very people with governing authority - something that Socialism and Communism will not do, as those ideologies do not recognize the reality of God, goodness or evil. Our founding fathers understood that human rights are sacred and come directly from the hand of God. In Socialist societies human rights come from the Socialist state and those rights can be rescinded, re-defined so as to nullify them, or just ignored.

    Our founding fathers were the real revolutionaries, and the American Revolution can become the world's revolution.
  • JimBaker
    Communism, Socialism, Theism, Modern Liberalism, and Fascism are all just species of the genre Collectivism. I hate Collectivism because I love to make my own choices in all matters that affect me and my family. I hate Collectivism because I don't want central planners deciding what course of action might be best for the most people. I love that what is best for me and my family will not always be in line with the decisions of the central planners.
    There is nothing wrong with a profit motive. It causes lots of people to get raises and/or new jobs. It fits nicely with Individualism. I know that wealth is created by the efforts of individuals and, while it can be redistributed, it will never be created by central planning. That is how the Soviet Union finally collapsed. That stuff is simple for me. It is not simple for followers ( "useful idiots" - J Stalin ) of the central planners, and that is bad for me. Hilliary Rodham-Clinton is a Collectivist of the second kind. Barak Hussein Obama is of the third kind. John McCain is of the fourth. However well intentioned Collectivists are, the eventual result will be tyranny. In my opinion, the USA has been on this road for over 75 years. I have no hope of reversing our direction.
    And, when the central planners try to take away my firearms, they will discover that I am not a Collectivist. I am getting old and set in my ways and that will get messy, I expect.
    Yes Richard, Communist was a little harsh. I should have said Collectivist.
  • Storm-Rider
    JimBaker,

    I'm getting on up there myself, but I haven't given up on America. I'm hoping a new generation of Americans will actually read the Declaration of Independence - and then read the Bill of Rights - and then re-read them both several more times - and let it sink in - and really let it sink in.

    I'm hoping and praying that a new generation of Americans will realize that the values and ideas within those documents are unique - they exist nowhere else on earth.

    I'm hoping and praying that government of the people, by the people and for the people will not perish from the earth.

    I don't want my children or grandchildren to live under Communist/Socialist/Collectivist tyranny - I want them to be free - and I'm willing to die for them.
  • Rudy
    Storm/Jim,
    It might get bad, but it won't be THAT bad. You are not alone. There is a movement among THINKING Americans of my generation (born from 1975-1985) that do not have our heads up our asses and "believe" socialism is good in any way. Nor do we intend to give up our guns, our money or anything else our Gog-given liberty has allowed us to earn. The only reason liberalism is perceived as main stream, is that conservatives are smart, and quietly go about running this country, while liberals talk about change.
  • Rudy
    Scion9,

    Wow that was intense and in depth. Great writing. I wish I had your talent.

    Beth,

    You said ''bovine feces", hee hee hee :) you are right about little Richard being a fool. He claimed on here that terrorists don't target civilians. When EVERYONE corrected him, he tried to amend it saying terrorists target terror. You are right about the age thing, he is a kid, 17 years, likely being indoctrinated by commie teachers. Sad that the few idiots like that make teachers who actually care about educating people look bad, by mass producing idiots like Richard.
  • Rudy, if you think my teachers have any influence on me, then you are correct. My Teachers, like Jesus Christ, MLK, Ghandi, and Mr. Franklin all influence me very much, and it is because of their influence, and their sacrifices, and their mistakes, that i learn.
    I appreciate Storm-Rider's attempt at civility, which doesn't seem to be a value the Founding Fathers wanted to instill in their loyal followers. Rudy, i do not understand why you would think i want to take away your weapons. Didn't i just write that i am all for the freedom of the individual? Freedom to bear Arms, Freedom of Speech, just about any freedom we currently have, and many we don't. We will not take away your money, we will not take away your rights, we will not take away your land, nothing like that. i don't even know where you get that idea from.

    It also seems to me that you haven't read what i Wrote. I am a Socialist, not a Communist, Not a Collectivist. I believe that nothing can come from a state that has power over everything, but i have even less faith in Corporations and Massive Companies. I believe that the people, through a Completely Democratic government, should regulate the economy so the needs of the people come first, not the bottom line. However, i still believe that the state should have the MINIMUM amount of control possible over the people.

    No, what i described is not Made up by me. I am a paying member of the SPUSA, a Democratic Socialist Party. because i know that none of you will look them up, even, i will copy and paste their statement.

    THE SOCIALIST PARTY of the UNITED STATES of AMERICA strives to establish a radical democracy that places people's lives under their own control - a non-racist, classless, feminist socialist society...

    where working people own and control the means of production and distribution through democratically-controlled public agencies; where full employment is realized for everyone who wants to work; where workers have the right to form unions freely, and to strike and engage in other forms of job actions; and where the production of society is used for the benefit of all humanity, not for the private profit of a few. We believe socialism and democracy are one and indivisible. The working class is in a key and central position to fight back against the ruling capitalist class and its power. The working class is the major force worldwide that can lead the way to a socialist future - to a real radical democracy from below. The Socialist Party fights for progressive changes compatible with a socialist future. We support militant working class struggles and electoral action, independent of the capitalist controlled two-party system, to present socialist alternatives. We strive for democratic revolutions - radical and fundamental changes in the structure and quality of economic, political, and personal relations - to abolish the power now exercised by the few who control great wealth and the government.


    Happy? probably not. You still believe that Socialism is the road to Fascism, which i find impossible to believe or even imagine. maybe you could explain your reasoning better that just calling me an idiot.

    Also, the only people that use a person's age as a point against them are those to stupid to respond to their actual points. The denunciation of the young is a necessary part of the hygiene of older people, and greatly assists the circulation of the blood. - Logan Smith
  • Storm-Rider
    Richard,

    You're a really scary guy - and I don't care how old you are. You sound just like Karl Marx and Vladimir Lenin - and I don't care what age they were when they said essentially the same thing as you.

    1. "I believe that the people, through a Completely Democratic government, should regulate the economy so the needs of the people come first, not the bottom line."

    The people in capitalist, free-enterprise America already regulate the economy through their own creative work and earning, and their own spending. This is a part of individual liberty of the people, and their (our) pursuit of happiness. The economy is also regulated by taxation, but taxation beyond ~20% is excessive - above that level pits the government against the people - against their pursuit of happiness. Government becomes unjust and tyrannical when its power is pitted against the peoples pursuit of happiness – so said our founding fathers in the Declaration of Independence.

    The people's greatest need is to be free of unjust, overtaxing and tyrannical government so they can creatively work out their own pursuit of happiness. Other than national security and defense, the only useful and compassionate function of government in regards to the other needs of the people is to provide social security and medicare for the elderly and disabled - and even that could be provided through charitable and religious organizations in the private sector.

    2. "However, i still believe that the state should have the MINIMUM amount of control possible over the people."

    No, no, no! The people should have maximum control over the government - not the other way around - so said our founding fathers. Remember, just government power derives from the consent of the governed - the consent of the people - otherwise government power is unjust and tyrannical. Richard, you are talking tyranny – the opposite of the American dream of liberty.

    3. "where working people own and control the means of production and distribution through democratically-controlled public agencies"

    Just how are the "working people" going to take control of the means of production? That would be called theft - just as occurred in the totalitarian Communist Soviet Union. The "working people" can't steal what they don’t own, that violates one of the Ten Commandments little man. Such theft of private property is not only a sin on a personal level, it would be a state crime and an act of treason against the United States as it violates the fourth amendment of the Bill of Rights: “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures shall not be violated….” The "working people" can only take control of the means of production and distribution through tyranny.

    The "working people" can't take ownership of the means of production and distribution with the consent of the other working people who presently own those things. Most everyone I know is "the working people" and they don't want to steal other people’s factories and businesses - they just want to be left alone by the government and be engaged in creative and productive work - something that is available in the United States as it is in no other place on earth. Despite what you say about yourself, your economic ideas are Communist. Richard, you are a Communist by Karl Marx's definition, and a budding tyrant just like Vladimir Lenin.

    4. "where full employment is realized for everyone who wants to work ….. and where the production of society is used for the benefit of all humanity, not for the private profit of a few."

    Have you forgotten, or maybe your teachers have not taught you the truth: Full employment was a feature of the totalitarian Communist Soviet Union - 100% employment. The problem is that the Communist/Radical Socialist system, being the enemy of human creativity, productivity was very, very low. That is why the totalitarian Soviet Communist Empire collapsed. This was the relationship between the Radical Socialist/Communist state and the "working people": The utopian socialist state says to the "working people" "We will pretend to pay you" and the "working people" say to the utopian socialist state: "We will pretend to work for you."

    Private profit is a good thing because it is the fruit and reward of creative labor - it is part of the pursuit of happiness that Thomas Jefferson told us about. American capitalism and free enterprise has resulted in more happiness and benefit to humanity than radical socialism or communism because it works. Your Marxist economic ideas have already failed on a massive scale because it doesn’t work. As Ronald Reagan once said, and I paraphrase: “The best social program ever invented is called a job.”

    5. “The working class is in a key and central position to fight back against the ruling capitalist class and its power. The working class is the major force worldwide that can lead the way to a socialist future - to a real radical democracy from below.”
    Richard, there are wealthy people in all nations, including the United States. The difference is that in America one becomes wealthy through creativity and hard work in the free enterprise system – part of the pursuit of happiness – which is our God-given right according to the Declaration of Independence. In most nations one becomes wealthy by coercion, murder or by becoming part of the elite ruling class in that Radical Socialist state you keep talking about.
    We already have democracy from below – American political power will remain just as long as it is derived through the consent of the governed – through democratic elections that are already in place which were begun at the direction of the Constitution of the United States.
    6. “We support militant working class struggles and electoral action…”
    This comes right out of the play book of Karl Marx. Richard, stop talking about socialism, you are a communist.
    7. “We strive for democratic revolutions - radical and fundamental changes in the structure and quality of economic, political, and personal relations….”
    Richard, we’ve already had a democratic revolution, thank God – it was called the American Revolution.
    8. “to abolish the power now exercised by the few who control great wealth and the government.”
    Now here’s the killer – the only way to abolish the power of American government is to destroy the power of “we the people” who are the source of that power. American government power, if just, derives from the consent of the governed – from “we the people.” Richard, there is only one way to abolish the power of American government: you must destroy the Declaration of Independence which tells us about just government power, and to destroy the Constitution which justly limits government power, and defines how that power is exercised. Only by tyranny and treason can you Communists attain your goals in America. Richard, you are on a path not only to tyranny and treason, you are on a path to war.
  • Lexx
    This is the biggest crock of shyt....this article is lying.....the person who wrote this article is a liar with a hidden agenda....i'm from chicago and also visited that church on so many occassions.....Rev. Wright was never a MUSLIM...he may have been a baptist, since his father was a baptist minister for close to 50 years. People please dont believe everything you read on these bogus blogs....


    LEXX
  • Alright, ill take it one point at a time.

    1. "The people in capitalist, free-enterprise America already regulate the economy through their own creative work and earning, and their own spending."

    That is the most idiotic phrase i have ever heard. The people in a Capitalist Society Regulate the economy? No, the people have no power over the economy, Money has power over the economy. And who has the money?
    http://www.faculty.fairfield.edu/faculty/hodgso...

    Also, you say that no one can be truly happy with an excessive amount of Taxation yet Denmark is one of the happiest Countries in the world, with one of the highest Tax Rates in the world. Oh, and they have a Democratic Socialist Government. Go Figure.
    http://www.physorg.com/news73321785.html

    2. "No, no, no! The people should have maximum control over the government - not the other way around - so said our founding fathers."

    You misread what i said. I said, and i quote, "However, i still believe that the state should have the MINIMUM amount of control possible over the people"

    the GOVERNMENT has the MINIMUM amount of control over the PEOPLE.
    meaning that the government gets the hell out of people's lives.
    Don't call me a Tyrant, i am no Fascist.

    3. Ever Shopped at Woodmans? it is a massive grocery store, located in the midwest, and it is owned completely by it's EMPLOYEES. they didn't steal it from anyone, they didn't wrest control of Woodmans from the people that used to control it, Woodmans is a completely Employee Owned and Run Corporation.

    The People who work there decide punishments for people who steal, the people who work there decide how to balance wages with inflation, the WORKING CLASS.

    How is this, time for a hypothetical question. If someone bought rights to all of the Wells in a village, and was refusing the people of the village access to the well unless they paid him, what would you do? it is against the 10 Commandments to Steal, but i think God would be a little more pissed when he finds out you died because you refused to stand up to this bully.

    When many people are threatened because of the greed of a few, isn't it our Right, our Duty, and our Responsibility to fight for Justice, Equality, and Life? Isn't that EXACTLY what our founding fathers did all those years ago?

    4. It doesnt say employment for everyone. It says Full Employment for those who want to work. 100% employment will never be attained. But too often, in today's capitalist society, are people who Want to work, are Willing and Able to do the work, are Fully Qualified to do the work, and who simply want to support their families, are turned away for some stupid Reason. Race, Skin Color, Creed, Religion, Sex, Sexuality, and a whole slew of other stupid, senseless reasons. Those who want to work to support their families, in a Socialist Society, will always be able to find work. Whether or not they like it is a different story, but we are of the firm belief that if you WANT to support your family and yourself, you should always have the means to.

    That is the Pursuit of Happiness you are so fond of. You are free to find a job you like, but if you cannot, you can always fall back on a job you dont. But NO MATTER WHAT, you will always be supporting your family and yourself, and there will always be that job there for you to fall back on.

    5. the amount of wealthy people today who actually deserve the amount of wealth they have is staggeringly low. Too often we hear of people suing companies for outrageous sums of money, sometimes in the millions of dollars, because their coffee was served too hot, or their waiter was rude to them. Do these people DESERVE their millions?

    Too often, celebrities are paid thousands of dollars to simply Show Up at a party, or at a rave. All they do is run around with random people, having sex with everyone and their cousin, getting drunk and shouting at Jews. And they get paid, because they are famous. They have no skills, no talent, no real job. Do these people DESERVE their millions?

    Too often is wealth passed from Father to Son. I'm not saying this is bad, as it is a touchy subject. however, too often does the son of a famous person become famous himself, simply because he shares the same last name as his Father. Just look at Ronald P. Regean. What has he done to deserve his wealth? He has his own talk show, and has recently thrown his hat into the ring for Vice Presidency. He is Famous, Rich, and Powerful. All because his Father was also Famous, Rich, and Powerful. Does he DESERVE his millions?

    These are just examples, you get my point. People like Bill Gates or Mr. Jobs, people who actually WORK, have useful talent, and can get the job done, deserve some of the credit and wealth they currently enjoy. However, in 2007, Mr. Gates earned $250 every SECOND. if he dropped a $1000 bill on the ground, in the time it would take him to pick it up, he would have earned another $1000. He can Donate $15 to every person on earth, and still have $5 Million left over. Bill Gates has more wealth than all but 37 countries ON THIS PLANET. I think that is a little excessive, even for the most skilled people, don't you?

    6. Sometimes, the only way to get your point across is a violent protest. i would avoid that if there were any other alternative, but sometimes there just isn't. you know that, and i know that.

    7. Yes, we had a Democratic Revolution. We made our Government Democratic, in one sense of the word. However, we now need a Democratic Revolution of the Economy as well. how can we truly be free if we don't even know when our next meal will be? How can we truly be Democratic if we let our Veterans become homeless? How can we Truly be Democratic if we devalue whole segments of our population simply because they earn less money than us, or look different, or talk different?

    Capitalism is Anarchy of the Economy. Lassiez-Faire, or "To leave be" is a state of non-interventionialism that has failed. if we cannot even take care of our own poor, how can we expect the rest of the world to follow in our example?

    8. I am not out to destroy the American Government. I Am here to strengthen it, and to set it back on the path that our Founding Fathers set for it. The Bill of rights was not meant as a restriction on the people, it was meant as a restriction for what the Government can do to the people. Socialism is not about destroying the Constitution, or the American Government. Socialism is the Extension of the Democracy and Freedom that our Founding Fathers fought so hard for into the Economy as well as into the Government.




    There, i feel like i have repeated myself for the thritieth time. Man, where in the world do people come up with these weird misconceptions about Socialism? it's like Every Single Conservative fancies himself an Economist.
  • Ok. So what if he was a muslim? Is that any worse than being a fundy christian? No, its not. What a load of hypocracy by religious bullshit artists. Who cares! And it's not about the Rev. its about Obama and he seems to be a good bloke by my views and is probably the best bet for your people. Would you prefer a Mormon or a Jehova's Witness as your president? Probably not.

    Skelliot.
  • Storm-Rider
    Richard,

    I do appreciate your persistence.

    1. Yes, very wealthy people have a separate effect on the economy, but the distribution of wealth and income in most other nations is even more skewed toward the wealthy than in America - there is simply little or no middle class in many areas of the world - just the super rich and the super poor in many nations. We have a morally superior distribution of wealth and income in America because those things are hinged to freedom - the freedom to work and be creative for yourself and your family.

    This study paints a different picture than the one you provided.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:World_happin...

    Anecdotally, I've traveled to Europe several times, and my wife and I have hosted a French teacher in our home on many occasions - she keeps coming back - we're going to visit her in Paris this summer. We also hosted a Swiss foreign exchange student in my home last year for six months - he didn't want to go home at the end of the six months. My son is an ice hockey player and I have many Canadian friends who are involved in youth ice hockey in my city - without exception they love America and wouldn't move back to Canada. The one Canadian family that did move back came back to our city the following year - they weren't happy up there after having a taste of American life and liberty.

    2. Looks like we have some agreement here - good. Remember what Abraham Lincoln said: Government of the people, by the people and for the people must not perish from the earth.

    3. I like the example of Woodman’s - that is an example of people taking control of their own creative work without theft of others property - here we have some more agreement! Go America!

    How is this, time for a hypothetical question. If someone bought rights to all of the Wells in a village, and was refusing the people of the village access to the well unless they paid him, what would you do? it is against the 10 Commandments to Steal, but i think God would be a little more pissed when he finds out you died because you refused to stand up to this bully.

    * Yes, in the case of starvation or thirsting to death, theft of others food or water is not immoral - it would be immoral for the thirsty to steal the well its self, and it is immoral not to love your neighbor and deny them water if they are thirsty and unable to provide for themselves any water - but I don't think this example fits our discussion. People aren't starving or thirsting to death in America. Through their God-given creativity and liberty, able-bodied Americans are fully capable of providing for their own food and water - it is the disabled, and only the disabled that we must provide for in one way or the other.

    When many people are threatened because of the greed of a few, isn’t it our Right, our Duty, and our Responsibility to fight for Justice, Equality, and Life? Isn’t that EXACTLY what our founding fathers did all those years ago?

    * No one in America is threatened by our free enterprise economic system. We already have greater rights to life, liberty and creative pursuit of happiness than any nation on earth. We have equal opportunity - not equal economic result - the latter is the death of liberty.

    4. It doesn’t say employment for everyone. It says Full Employment for those who want to work. 100% employment will never be attained. But too often, in today’s capitalist society, are people who Want to work, are Willing and Able to do the work, are Fully Qualified to do the work, and who simply want to support their families, are turned away for some stupid Reason. Race, Skin Color, Creed, Religion, Sex, Sexuality, and a whole slew of other stupid, senseless reasons. Those who want to work to support their families, in a Socialist Society, will always be able to find work. Whether or not they like it is a different story, but we are of the firm belief that if you WANT to support your family and yourself, you should always have the means to.

    * I think the end results speak for themselves - people are literally killing themselves to gain entry into our country - exactly because of our capitalist, free enterprise system based on individual liberty.

    That is the Pursuit of Happiness you are so fond of...

    * The pursuit of happiness that you seem to be mocking didn't come first from my keyboard, it came from the pen of Thomas Jefferson.

    5. the amount of wealthy people today who actually deserve the amount of wealth they have is staggeringly low.

    * I don't go around worrying about the wealth of others: "You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor." Most wealthy people in America earned it through their own hard work and God-given creativity – good for them. Get off your snooping collectivist, socialist soapbox and get to work.

    Too often we hear of people suing companies for outrageous sums of money, sometimes in the millions of dollars, because their coffee was served too hot, or their waiter was rude to them. Do these people DESERVE their millions?

    * Sometimes yes, sometimes no - but now we are digressing into the justice, or lack thereof, within the American legal system. Maybe we have some real agreement here as well.

    Too often, celebrities are paid thousands of dollars to simply Show Up at a party, or at a rave. All they do is run around with random people, having sex with everyone and their cousin, getting drunk and shouting at Jews. And they get paid, because they are famous. They have no skills, no talent, no real job. Do these people DESERVE their millions?

    * They don't get my money, but if some fools want to give it to them who am I to inject myself into their business? Richard, you stick your nose into everyone else’s business – typical of envious socialists and communists.

    Too often is wealth passed from Father to Son.

    * Inheritance taxes should apply to all in a fair way, and if they don't we can agree on the injustice of it. You shouldn't single out America, or just Republicans here - there are just as many extremely rich Democrats, and the wealth that is concentrated in most other wealthy nations makes us look good.

    Bill Gates has more wealth than all but 37 countries ON THIS PLANET. I think that is a little excessive, even for the most skilled people, don’t you?

    Bill Gates earned his wealth honestly through his God-given intelligence and creativity. He didn’t coerce anyone with a death threat, and he didn’t kill anyone to gain his wealth. In most other nations the wealthy have blood on their hands. Thank God I live in America. "You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor."

    6. Sometimes, the only way to get your point across is a violent protest. i would avoid that if there were any other alternative, but sometimes there just isn’t. you know that, and i know that.

    * Your totalitarian nature is here revealed. Violence is not just immoral, it is evil, except for the defense of your own life or that of another innocent person; or for the defense of liberty in the face of tyranny.

    7. Yes, we had a Democratic Revolution. We made our Government Democratic, in one sense of the word. However, we now need a Democratic Revolution of the Economy as well.

    * That would be called free enterprise, and we already have it as well as democratic political liberty.

    how can we truly be free if we don’t even know when our next meal will be?

    * You need to get of your ass, and off your keyboard and creatively earn your living and buy your food. If you have a devastating medical illness or injury and can't provide for yourself, then apply for Medicare and Social Security.

    How can we truly be Democratic if we let our Veterans become homeless?

    * Same answer: If the veteran is able-bodied he must get off his ass and get to work, if he is disabled we have an immense obligation to him.

    How can we Truly be Democratic if we devalue whole segments of our population simply because they earn less money than us, or look different, or talk different?

    * This is a lie about America. We have the right idea about racial and ethnic differences here - it's called the melting pot - "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal." Who gives a damn about someone’s skin color? All I care about is their values - the content of their character. The melting pot works - that is true multiculturalism.

    Capitalism is Anarchy of the Economy. Lassiez-Faire, or “To leave be” is a state of non-interventionialism that has failed. if we cannot even take care of our own poor, how can we expect the rest of the world to follow in our example?

    * False. Our economy is the envy of the world, and that is because free enterprise releases the God-given creativity within the free individual.

    8. I am not out to destroy the American Government. I Am here to strengthen it, and to set it back on the path that our Founding Fathers set for it. The Bill of rights was not meant as a restriction on the people, it was meant as a restriction for what the Government can do to the people. Socialism is not about destroying the Constitution, or the American Government. Socialism is the Extension of the Democracy and Freedom that our Founding Fathers fought so hard for into the Economy as well as into the Government.

    * You can peacefully agitate for your beloved socialism, but you can't foist this on America without the consent of the American people - good luck to you.

    There, i feel like i have repeated myself for the thritieth time. Man, where in the world do people come up with these weird misconceptions about Socialism? it’s like Every Single Conservative fancies himself an Economist.

    * I am not an economist, true; and I am a modern conservative - that makes me a classical liberal like Thomas Jefferson.
  • lila scott
    Never mind that the muslim story was discreted months ago. It's much more fun to say Obama and Wright are evil secret sleeper cells. the truth is that Obama is really Osama. He shaved his face! In the dark of night Obama sneaks and steals candy from babies and puts poison in our water It's true.. because some rightwing loon said so. That's good enough for me.
  • Rightwinger
    I am a Christian and a conservative. I really believe in trying to live a God centered life. While I am far from perfect I still try to strive for that goal. That being said I at first thought Obama seemed liked a guy whose ideology was different than mine but sincere in his beliefs and not just going along with democratic party guide lines. Since than there have been plenty of red flags to warrant a second look at Obama, between his wife's statements who he chose to marry and his pastor of twenty years of whom he calls his mentor. Apparently a former Muslim according to news reports. This man is seeking the presidency of the United States. There are already some Democratic leaders willing to give up some of our sovereignty to the United Nations. We really need to know more about Obama and what is in his head. I will probably vote for McCain, he was not my favorite but with what is left I do not really have much of a choice. I know what I am getting with McCain and I will accept it. I know what I would get with Hillary and I can not accept that. We have no clue what we would get with Obama and with all of those red flags out there it could be tragic for our country and its future. We should not bash Obama. We just need to know exactly what and who he is a little better. Lets make informative decisions not just popular ones
  • Sgt Smokehill
    Military service, while admirable, hardly immunizes one against being either an idiot or worse. George Lincoln Rockwell comes to mind ... and of course one should recall that a little corporal named Hitler not only volunteered for combat, but was a decorated hero (Iron Cross, 2nd Class).
  • spike
    After reading these posts I am motivated to actually research Rev.
    Wright's military service record. I wonder why a young man in an exclusive school in Philly would drop out to go into the USMC.
    I have the skepticism of an investigative journalist, so I will do an indepth study and report back.
    BTW: I am also a Marine so I either want to vigorosly defend him as a brother in arms or vigorosly excoriate him as a poser.
  • unitcomp
    Three commendations from the president of the U.S., valedictorian of his Naval Officers School graduating class. God exhorts us not to kill in Exodus. God tells us our children will be damned when we break his laws. Reverend Wright is trying to tell us the punishment for breaking God's laws as a country. That's what a preacher does. Preachers say a lot of things we don't like to hear.
  • TOM
    Lee Harvey Oswald was a Marine, the Austin Tower shooter was a Marine, Timothy McVeigh was a US soldier too....so what.

    We need to know the truth, if there is nothing wrong with Wright and Obama being Muslim or former Muslims then they should admit it. If they are hiding an agenda, then we deserve to know. Wright is Obama's friend, so is Ayers, and several other Muslim criminals and terrorists.
  • jane doe
    Rev. Wright should shut his mouth and do the Lord's work, after all he is a pator not a politiation.
  • ljcarolyne
    Wright has no clue what the Lord's work is, and never will have. He's a true blue Muslim through and through. Called a blue beard along with Osama Obama. Former my foot, that guy is one of the best Muslims I ever saw. Didn't think their was such a thing as former Muslim and they lived to tell about it. Well do tell, are we surprised at this??? Unitcomp you need to join Wright's church, he just had a couple quit recently, yesterday as a matter of fact. LOL They will be back soon as election is over!
  • ljcarolyne
    I like even numbers, so here goes. #100 - Wright is no pastor? his sheeple are not Christian and never will be. They are like the heath in the desert and cannot see when good comes. They are up to no good!
  • ljcarolyne