Obama: I oppose concealed weapons

The agenda of radical socialists/communists and Islamists will converge on our natural right to self-defense, this is a part of asymmetrical warfare. The second amendment restrains the American government from infringing this right of free men to engage in self-defense. Once the second amendment is successfully destroyed the first amendment will be sure to follow – how would the people be able to stop a tyrannical American government if they no longer had guns? Once the right to self-defense and free speech have been revoked – these are the core rights of liberty its self – then our God-given rights to life and pursuit of happiness will also die.

Never forget these words: ” That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.”

Storm, how can you compare Obama’s opposition to ‘concealed’ weapons to withering away the Second Amendment? Where in the Second Amendment do you see ‘the right to conceal weapons’? The second amendment was written well before assault weapons, and before small handguns. Personally, I would eliminate both of them, but you probably already know that. If people want guns, by all means go and buy as many rifles and shotguns that you can afford. Buying Assault Rifles, and handguns, has no place in modern society. Just look at the latest news of a 20 year old who has ‘Legally’ bought a large cache of weapons …

Wong had 13 firearms in all, more than 5,000 rounds of ammunition, some that could pierce armor, and 100 rounds in a feeding clip with bullets “meant to take down aircraft or military machinery,” Aquino said

… and for what, you ask? The kid has felt isolated, and at the first sign of trouble he decides to re-enact the Virginia Tech style massacre. [http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5ihYVHK00jG08W883-4-aWzUIxxswD8VQQRLG4]

I totally agree with Storm-Rider. HE has the proper long range view. Watch out for the Dems or your can kiss your guns goodbye.
I happen to have an “assault rifle” an AK-47. I shoot it at a local private gun range. On occasion. I do not even own a pistol. What I own is my business not the governments..but as his last paragraph says I am ready to abolish an odious oppressive government if it came down to it, just as we did in the Revolution. Guns are for our self defense, for hobbies, for disaster ie Katrina with civil law is in our own hands temporarily AND to defend against a government too, as needed. Trust me Iam the most mild mannered (college librarian) harmless guy you ever want to meet, nor do I even hunt..yuk.
But taking guns away from law abiding citizens has never ever proven to reduce crime or the random nut case shooter. Yes I have facts do prove it.
Mike in FL

Zhann,
The second amendment restrains our American government from infringing the right of individual American citizens from bearing arms – that means self-defense. Self-defense means the defense of precious human life – and the Declaration of Independence says that human life is a God-given right. What good is it to have the right to life if you don’t have the liberty to defend your life, or the life of your family, or that of your innocent neighbor?

The second amendment does not say by exactly what means a man can bear arms to defend precious God-given human life – it could be a knife, a baseball bat, a guard dog, a cast-iron skillet or a gun. Handguns, concealed or not, are a very effective means of self-defense for the ordinary American man, and it doesn’t really matter if they are also used by sociopaths, the mentally ill or by criminals. Greater efforts should be made against the latter – not the former.

You could make a good case to prohibit hand-grenades, bombs, bazookas, tanks and cannons; because these are not means of self-defense – this would not be a case of an individual bearing arms – these weapons are means of waging war. Individuals bearing arms in self-defense is not to be equated with waging war – we are talking common sense here – the common sense of individual self-defense.

Zhann, sometimes a metaphor or story is better than rational debate:

Most people are innocent sheep. Sometimes a wolf will attack and kill one or several of the sheep in the herd. He uses his fangs to do the killing. There are good guard-dogs among us, and they also have very sharp fangs. Some sheep make the foolish or immoral mistake of betraying the guard dog, because they see and fear his fangs. Once the guard-dogs have all been de-fanged, the entire herd of sheep will become the imprisoned killing field of the wolves.

The wolf can be a criminal; or it could, God-forbid, represent a tyrannical government – an empowered pack of wolves. Fear the wolf – love and respect the guard-dogs – that was the wisdom of our founding fathers.

Beautiful, well said.
Take a look at Zhann’s web page, you will see where he is coming from.

Zhann, the purpose of the 2nd Ammendment was not just so I can carry a gun to hunt. The Ammendment was to protect Americans from tyrannical government, foreign, local or our own federal. It keeps the politicians honest. Personally, I think, by law, all politicians should be fitted with an explosive collar and could be “executed” by any disgruntled citizen for reason. Also, I believe that no citizen should have the right to vote that has not served in the national military. Only those that have the guts to serve freedom should have the right to guide it. Treason, murder, and child rape would be “taken care of” by a bullet to the brain, immediately. Course that means we’d have lots fewer Hollywood celebs. See, there is a need for guns!

Here in my awesome home state of Penn’s Woods roughly 6 1/2 % of residents have concealed carry licenses. Once upon a not so long ago on opening day of buck season Pa. would field the third largest standing army in the world. Big gun culture here. 2nd amendment states “keep” — to own — and “bear” — to carry — shall NOT be infringed. Pa. state constitution article 1 section 21 “The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned.” Big gun culture here. I don’t think his latest statements will be to warmly received. And to make them in Pa. yet!

I am aware of the fact that posting my views on this site completely contradicts everything this site stands for, but it make for much better reading than “Yeah!!!” or “You got it” or “I agree with XXX 100%” … a little contradiction makes for more informative reading.

Tonto … the explosive collars on politicians would do wonders in keeping them honest. However, I highly doubt that they fear the public in any way. Just look at whats going on with the price of oil. This is very easily controllable, but simply not profitable for them. The voting thing I would have to disagree with on many levels, however.

Ok, everyone here is aware of the fact that the USA is by far the most violent nation, and has the highest rate of violent crime in the world (and thats saying a lot when you take into account some of the crazy African nations). I read the news daily … not even daily, but countless times a day. To date, I have Never stumbled across an article where a Gun carrier ever did anything positive, stop a crime or what not, except for off duty servicemen. With the exceptionally high level of people in this country that are armed, does anyone have any information (link or what have you) of where carrying a gun has come in handy? I am not being cynical, I am honestly looking for information.

zhann,
That is a lie – America is not the most violent nation in the world. Last time I checked we haven’t had a holocaust or episode of mass-murder on our soil – things that happen in Africa, Asia, and even in Europe to this day. The violence that does occur in America is not due to ordinary gun-toting American guys – those are the good guys. The violence you speak of is at the hands of those criminals that our liberal judges refuse to deal with – they refuse to deal with the wolves in our midst. It is the wolf, not the guard dog that is the source of the violence in America. You can’t tell the difference between the wolf and the guard dog, or you are so set in your anti-American ways that you refuse to do so.

Admit it, zhann, you are anti-American – an America-hater. Have you been attending Obama’s church- the one where the minister tells the congregation to no longer say “God bless America, say God damn America?”

You are most certainly intelligent, but you are either a moral fool, or you intentionally undermine the founding of liberty in America, which relies on the right of life and self-defense for its citizens. You have rejected the wisdom of our founding fathers.

zhahn,

Try these sites: http://wheelgun.blogspot.com/ http://xavierthoughts.blogspot.com/
http://www.theothersideofkim.com/index.php/tos/ are just a few that often have articles, and entire sections, dedicated to armed self defense successes. Sometimes, most times, the mere presence of the gun ends an episode without it needing to be fired.

Zhann,

contradiction DOES make for good reading. But what you write is pure lies. Storm-Rider is far too nice to call you a moron, so I will do it. You are a moron, and don’t know what you are talking about. You want an example of an armed citizen saving lives, google Jeanne Assam who shot the piece of crap who went into a Church intent on shooting it up, or James Spiers, who shot a would be robber because he was licensed to carry, you dhimwit, and THINK before you post. The reason you don’t hear about heroes like that more often is because the media are like you, a bunch of America hating cowards who can’t tell the truth when a gun saves lives, because that is bad for their ratings.

Further, it was an armed (adult) student who initially shot and stopped the thug at the Yeshiva school in Jerusalem last month. Stopped him long enough for the police could get there. But that you won’t see in the media, either (an armed civilian Jew GASP! stopping a misunderstander of his faith GASP GASP!). Search for that a number of places including Carl in Jerusalem’s Israel Matzav blog.

And besides, the anti-gunners ask us to prove the negative. How many “Dumbass breaks into house is confronted by armed citizen with 20 guage Remington determined to protect his castle” or “Dumbass assaults citizen is confronted by .357 snubnose” in both cases “no shots fired as dumbass flees assumedly home to change his underwear” are there. Do they even keep statistics on those dumbasses?

Storm, why is everything so Black and White with you? “you are anti-American – an America-hater” … If I criticize America, I hate it? Since when does criticism equal hate? What kind of sick world do you live in? Criticism brings forth reform, without which we as a nation stand in one place. The fact that America is the most hated nation in the world is a known fact in every country I have visited. This doesn’t bother you? Oh, I forgot, these must be more lies that the rest of the world is telling, right? The only people that think that this are those that have never traveled the world. If you only knew the reaction I get when I say I am American, it is extremely disconcerting. I would have to say that you are the one that hates America because you refuse to change its image. People like you are at fault regarding Americas image. You are a blind sheep led to a fro, and your apathy is what is crumbling America’s foundation. Regardless, lets forget 3rd world countries, and look at today … not pre-WW2 Germany … America is the most Violent … by far. Prove Me Wrong! A few quick Google Searches will show that I am right.

Rudy, you are an imbecile. I have met many stupid people in the past, but none quite like you. I would really like to meet you in person so I could put a face to your level of ineptness. How do you wake up in the morning? Do you often forget to change your underwear? I picture you as the army guy that is always yelling, always trying to rally the group, but at the first sign of gunfire you wet yourself and run for cover. Maybe I’m wrong. Regardless, the fact that you can read is at least a step in the right direction, but you still can’t seem to grasp simple concepts too well. Let me clarify a small point with you … when I said “off duty servicemen”, you can assume security guards. I know in your tiny brain that may be a leap that doesn’t occur right away, but for future reference try to keep that in mind. But, don’t worry, if need be I will remind you once more. Also, if you want to continue with the insults, I will be more than happy to oblige. Why not try to say something intelligent for a change?

Midnight, Israel is a strange world to live in. Every male not only has the right to bear arms, but most have an amazing ability to do so. Living in a world like that, I would pack heat too … even though I am against armed citizens. Israelis live under different circumstances than in the US, which we all know, so it is difficult for me to compare an Israeli defending himself with a personal firearm to an American. I understand the argument to bear arms in the USA, I simply can’t find any proof that it actually helps. The blogs posted are interesting, I must say.

The whole world doesn’t hate America, just the idiots like you Zahnn. I personally love America and the American people.

At the bottom line there is not much difference between a jihadi with a gun trying to kill you (Jerusalem) and a dumbass with a gun trying to kill you (Jeanne Assam’s case). Different motivations to be sure but the end result is still the same, they both want to kill you. I would rather be armed and shoot back, or go down doing so, than clutching a white flag saying “Oh no please don’t shoot Mr. Dumbass. I’m a law abiding citizen without a means of defense. At least let me time to run and get my gun before you go any further.” That should work out well. And what if, heaven forbid, sooner or later the jihadis do make their way here and try to disrupt society any way they can. Shootings in malls, churches, synagoges, workplaces. I’d rather be armed if/when that happens, instead of relying on their good graces to leave me & mine in peace because I’m not. Or are we to just allow them (dumbasses or jihadis) to do as they will to ourselves, our children, our friends. Better to be prepared and not need it than need it and not be ready.

Yeah Zhann what countries have you been to that hate America??? Funny you spout “facts” like that and that the US is the most violent nation on earth, but like a typical liberal, offer no proof. Everywhere I go in Kuwait, people see I am American, and tell me they love the USA for kicking Saddam out in 1991. I hear the same in Brazil when I go, from those people educated enough to ignore the lies of the media, which you obviously swallow whole without thinking. Everything is black and white for two main reasons: There IS a right, and a wrong. There IS a true and false. But liberals like you don’t want to admit that because it doesnt’t FEEL good to tell the truth that some people are EVIL (like Saddam, Osama, that piece of crap Cho who shot up VT, the ass that Jeanne Assam terminated) and that others are GOOD, like Jeanne Assam, George W. Bush, anyone who volunteers to wear the uniform of the Armed Services. You can criticize America all you want, but you cannot tell lies about her and expect to get any respect, or be held as anything other than an anti-American libtard. Which is why Robert points out that you are, in fact, and idiot.

I have spent six months in Kosovo, serving with the Irish Defence Forces in the Nato led mission.
The Kosovar Albanians love the Americans, because President Bush was the only world leader with enough balls to take any action to prevent their genocide. He saved millions of lives when he decided that America would not stand by and watch as Kosovar Albanian MUSLIM’S were slaughtered.
The K-Albs love the American forces there, they provide much needed jobs, and Serbia can rattle their sabres all they want, they will not invade Kosovo whilst the American army and NATO are there.
So lets ask the 1,840,000 or so K-Alb MUSLIMS how much they hate America, considering it’s America they have to thank for their continued existence.

Robert, Ireland. You take the side of the albanian muslims? With all due respect, damn
you sir. Bush and Clinton bombed the wrong damn people. Why in the hell would anyone want another “Muslim land” to fester jihad ?

Re: zhann
April 4th, 2008 | 11:33 am

Here is an example of a citizen with a CWP who justifiably shot a robber. A pity his employer would rather have a dead employee than a wounded criminal.

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080328/NEWS/80328005/1136

And Zahnn, our second amendment guarantees that we be citizens… not subjects.

Zhan,
You can criticize America all you want, but your penchant for criticism of America is informative because this is all we see from you – you never speak of the great virtues of America. You’ve never said that you love America in this thread – more evidence that you, in fact, don’t love America. Yes legitimate criticism of one’s country is a good thing, but you are lying about America, and that is what makes you anti-American – an America hater, and your lies about America being an intrinsically violent nation is simply anti-American propaganda.

Dennis Prager and others have written and spoken extensively about why European socialists – probably the ones we keep hearing about from you – and radical American leftists/socialists hate America.

1. One of the main reasons for America hatred from European and American leftists is that America is a religious nation – the only major industrialized non-Islamic nation which is religious. American leftists/socialists hate religion, and therefore you hate religious America. Even our Declaration of Independence repeatedly refers to God, and instructs us and the world that human rights are derived from God rather than government – that’s got to be a real burr under your saddle.

2. America is the only Judeo-Christian nation. Not only is America religious, America is Judeo-Christian in its religiosity. Europe is secular, leftist and now post-Christian; and Europeans don’t adhere to the same set of Judeo-Christian values that the majority of us have in America – just like you anti-American radical leftists/socialists. You do not like this concept of Judeo-Christian America, so you hate America.

3. America stands for God-given liberty more than any other value. Equality is also valued in America, but it is understood as equality of opportunity and equality under the law. In secular leftist/socialist Europe, and also with American leftist/socialists such as yourself, there is the Marxist goal of equality; but it is seen as equal economic outcome for the masses – except of course for the elite leftist/socialists at the top of the leftist/socialist government heap. Economic equality requires government imposition, i.e.: socialism or communism, and it is not compatible with liberty. So, since we have capitalism, liberty and equality of opportunity rather than Marxist government imposed economic equality, you and your European friends hate America.

4. America with all her wonderful cowboys and entrepreneurs has become more prosperous; and more successful in other ways, that most other countries, including European nations. The European leftist/socialists hate America for that, and you American leftist/socialists are parroting your cowboy-hating and America-hating socialist friends in Europe.
So, Zhann, after considering all the America hatred in the leftist areas of the world – and particularly at the United Nations – I’ve considered the source, and I wear it as a badge of honor .

Now, back to the main thread. You are spreading lies about America, and doing so repeatedly. America is not the most violent nation in the world – not even close. Totalitarian nations, devoid of liberty, are the most violent. Communist China, North Korea, Russia, Iran, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Libya, Indonesia…….. these and the like are the most violent countries. Remember the lone wolf is dangerous, but these nations are run by an empowered pack of wolves – lording over an unarmed and liberty-deprived public, and murder is simply a tool for them to keep their huddled masses in line. Do you think the governments of totalitarian or tyrannical nations are going to call you when they murder their citizens – so you can keep statistics?
I am tiring of having to repeat myself so often here – either you are denser than I initially believed, or you are just an anti-American propagandist – it seem now like the latter. The violence that occurs in America is mostly due to violent criminals, drug dealers and gangs – the wolves. You blame America as a whole instead of the evil within these individuals, and you would restrict the good guys from carrying concealed handguns in defense of their life rather than taking more effective action against the criminals themselves. Blaming this wonderful nation of life, liberty and creative pursuit of happiness for the violence of criminals is about as anti-American as one can get.

Jeff, you close minded idiot, FURB.
You miss the whole point of my comment, the discussion had turned into an argument on what nations actually hated America and I simply pointed out that Kosovo, A new country of approx 2.2 million people, 92% Muslim population loved Bush and the American people for coming to their aid when the rest of the world stood my and did nothing when they were being slaughtered.
I don’t think you will find too many jihadists coming out of Kosovo, the country is quite wealthy for a developing nation and not in the least oppresively Sharia run at all.
And before you think you can even try to intimidate me, I’ve stood up to Hezbollah, Amal, and the IDF in Lebanon, remnants of the KLA, Albanian and Serbian gangsters in Kosovo, and I’m due to fly out to Chad soon to face off with the Janjaweed, You are not scary in the least.
A true freedom lover stands up for the rights of all people, regardless of race, religion or creed and as long as I have a single breath left in my body, I will stand up for whoever needs my help.

Robert, my intentions were not in the least to scare or intimidate you. Only
to express my point of view. You claim to have “stood up against the IDF in Lebanon”. I’m not sure what side you are on. As far as fighting the janjaweed, don’t fight them, slaughter them. Please also tell me of the”Human rights” is muslim lands ? You speek of “Freedom loving people”? Please tell me of the so called freedoms in muslim lands ? Also please view http://mosquewatch.blogspot.com/2006/03/muslim-ransack-burn-churches-kosovo.html thse pictures of Churches that were burnt to the ground by your buddies (the muslims) in Kosovo. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsSswNz7lBU PLEASE HAVE A VIEW OF YOUR BUDDIES IN KOSOVO BURNING A CHURCH DOWN. WHAT SIDE ARE YOU ON MATE ?

I’m on the side of International peace and co-operation, and as for the “pictures” of burnt out churches, I still have the smell of the burning wood in my nostrils from actually attending the scenes when they happened. I didn’t have the luxury of sitting in an armchair, looking at the pictures and saying “this is a disgrace”.
The only luxury I had was that of my comrades standing shoulder to shoulder with me, Kosovan Muslims one side, Kosovan Christians the other side, and back up about twenty minutes too far away.
I would also like to share my memories of standing on a bridge in Mitrovicia in northern Kosovo with the K-Albs doing their damndest to break through our lines while we refused lest they they slaughter the K-Serbs.
I wasn’t saying that their burning of churches was in anyway defencible I was just saying that the K-Albs, 92 % Muslim loved America.
As for the IDF, on a number of patrols along the Blue Line, the Internationally recognised border between Israel and Lebanon, we came across IDF soldiers who were so bad at map reading that they lost their way, crossed over their own fences, crossed through the mine fields that they planted and were watching U.N. Posts. Our job in Lebanon was to keep both sides from escalating a conflict that would, and did, overrun U.N. posts leading to countless civilian casualities.
Have you ever serves in the military Jeff? Have you ever had to dig up mass graves and try and piece together a jigsaw that was once a human body? Have you ever seen the aftermath of attempted genocide? Have you ever gone into a minefield after a child that has stepped on one and blown her two feet off below the knees? Have you ever been the thin line that seperates two peoples that are no different apart from their religion and tried to stop them from killing each other, and more importantly you and your friends?
I am a soldier, I do not slaughter, I fight my battles according to my rules of engagement because it’s those rules that seperate me from the savages I have spent half my life defending others from.
So if you want to question my loyalties, or the manner in which I serve my country and International peace take up a rifle, stand a watch with me and put your money where your mouth is.

Robert,

I have been to the Lebanese-Israeli border, but as a civilian, and I saw the things you describe, and their aftermath. I have spoken with those that lost body parts, and family members to the minefields.

Your loyalties are plain to see for those of us who recognize that better men, such as yourself are willing to lay their lives on the line so imbeciles like Jeff and Zhann can spout lies about America and extoll the “virtues” of communism, under the new name socialism, and not risk being jailed, tortured and executed, like people face daily in Saudi Barbaria and Iran, for merely speaking out against the powers that be in those hell holes.

I’d stand watch with you any day if I was still able.

Thanks Rudy, that means a lot.

“quote”Jeff? Have you ever had to dig up mass graves and try and piece together a jigsaw that was once a human body? Have you ever seen the aftermath of attempted genocide? Have you ever gone into a minefield after a child that has stepped on one and blown her two feet off below the knees? Have you ever been the thin line that seperates two peoples that are no different apart from their religion and tried to stop them from killing each other, and more importantly you and your friends?” I survived hurricane katrina, here in south mississippi. I’ve seen my share of personal hell. I’ve seen my share of death and suffering. I’ve walked and driven through 25 miles with the stench of death in the air.I have no sympathy for my enemies. As far as the enemies of Israel, I wish the Country would take care of business and squash them with extreme prejudice. I desire no peace with those “muslim lands” that daily and yearly call for the extermination of America, Israel and the UK. If the beetles desire jihad, give it to them. And I still hope you totally eradicate the janjaweed.

http://mosquewatch.blogspot.com/2007/08/biloxi-before-and-after-katrina.html

My hometown. Be well Rob, sorry we got off one the wrong foot. I’m a grouch at times.
Let’s agree to disagree ok ?
Jeff

That’s the beauty of living in a free world, we can argue the sun out of the sky, and still respect each other’s views. I didn’t know you were from Mississippi, I would just like to say that the coverage of Hurricane Katrina broke my heart and the hearts of everyone I know. That is one thing I have never had to deal with, and to be honest I would sooner be in a war zone than dealing with the aftermath of a natural disaster, at least you know who to hate.
And I can be a bit of an asshole as well, especially after a bad day.
Peace between the West, if we start fighting amongst ourselves, then the bad guys have won, haven’t they.

Agreed Rob. “Peace between the West, if we start fighting amongst ourselves, then the bad guys have won, haven’t they.” The bottom line is whether we agree or disagree with you one some issues, I’d stand with you to fight for your freedom to speak and text it. Matter of fact (tell no one please ) I kinda like your hard a$$ attitude I’d rather someone be out front in what they believe than be a spinless coward. Rob, your are neither
spineless or a coward. But i’m still right lol. Take care , best of wishes to you and yours.
Jeff