New N.C. Mosque Exposed!!

... well fox news is owned by rupert murdoch... what can you expect... the man who called the Dalhai Lama "a sly old monk walking around in Gucci slippers"... - he was trying to get contracts with China 


"reality has a well known liberal bias"... I will have to remember that one!

Simon-


Yep, that's the show! It's satire, really funny satire. But probably not very funny to conservatives and Republicans -- I wonder why they haven't come up with their own comedy show yet?


I think the only place where conservatism dominates in the media is on the Fox News channel. Everywhere else is probably only slightly left-leaning, if you can call it that. Then again...


"Reality has a well-known liberal bias." ~ Stephen Colbert, that other satire guy behind a desk :p

Excellent post Phillip.  Couldn't have said it better myself.  Thanks!

hi CM, spent a few weeks in NY... really liked it... stayed in manhattan. It did seem to be similar in it's attitudes to where I am from. I liked it. Although I think in different parts of the states attitudes vary widely.


I think I might have seen the Daily show, but I am not sure... Is he the guy with thick dark hair behind a desk (boy that narrows it down!). It is a kind of satire show... and sometimes has this english bloke on who has a few funny point of view to put over.


If that is the show, then yes I have seen it, and have enjoyed it. Despite what a lot of people say on here, It seems to me the american media is pretty conservative (generally not always... calm down!)... but that show (if it is the one) seems pretty satirical and irreverent, so it gets my vote... yeah good!

simon-


Your views sound very similar to the views we have here in New York City. (There, I've disclosed where I'm from now!) Do you watch the Daily Show with Jon Stewart?

Chris-


I notice that sometimes. I personally love Wafa Sultan, because I think she is criticizing Islam rationally, and for the right reasons. On the other hand, I can sympathize with the charge that some people criticizing Islam are doing so for ethnocentric or bigoted reasons, associating "Muslim" with "foreigner" or "minority", and so channeling their dislike of dark-skinned peoples and foreign cultures through the dislike of Islam. A red flag raises in my mind when I see critiques of Islam peppered with terms like "raghead" and "camel-fucker". Not that all ridicule and caricature is racially/ethnically motivated...but until I get to know the person better, I prefer to keep certain "flag words" out of the conversation. So, I think this is one reason why some liberals are very suspicious of people criticizing Islam.


That said, as a "liberal-sympathizer," I prefer to read your posts because of your sticking to facts, figures, and direct quotations rather than ridicule and caricature.

Philip-



Just a minor observation but didn't the 10 Commandments originally come from Judaism? I'd look this up but I'm too lazy right now.


I also agree that the "nice Muslims" are not practicing a true, literal representation of the Qur'an. They still call themselves Muslims though. Not sure if I would single out any one religion and call them "Christian-like"...

Thanks Chris.

islam can't evolve, they believe the koran is the exact word of allah and man does not correct ones god.
other religions change to keep up with society.  muslims are happy living in the 7th century.  you would think they would be like the Amish, live in their cave and leave everyone else alone.  But the koran says everyone must be a muslim and live inthe dark ages.  what is also funny is they muslims have their own sub groups and each of them think that other muslims aren't muslim enough.
if they didn't have infidels to kill they would have killed each other years ago.

Great post Philip!!

1.  You are mistaken if you think Islam will evolve into a compassionate religion. Authentic Islam is always cruel. Islam is constant. Islam is indelible.  It teaches death, cruelty, and destruction.  And it will always teach death, cruelty,  and destruction for as long as you adhere to Islam. You cannot change evil. In order for there to be no more evil, you must abandon evil.  Always remember that an authentic Islamists is a "good" Islamist, and a "bad" Islamist is no Islamist at all.  A "good" Islamist will practice the evil that Islam contains.  A "bad" Islamist isn't practicing his religion, but is going counter to what Islam teaches.

2.  Islam is almost exactly 600 years younger than Christianity.  Islam was initiated at about the year 632 anno domini.

3.  On the other hand,  the authentic doctrine of Christianity is very beautiful.  It teaches that "you shall not kill," that "you should not bear false witness against your neighbor," to "honor your father and mother," that "you should not commit adultery," that "you should not covet your neighbor's wife and his goods," that humans are to be treated as humans,  and many other positive things that would create harmony and concord in society.
Bear in mind that Christianity never evolved into something good.  What really has happened throughout history is that so-called Christians have disobeyed the beautiful doctrine of Christianity.  Even at present, some Christians are still doing this. Of course, it's unfortunate.

On the other hand, Islam's doctrine is the antithesis of Christianity.  Whereas Christianity teaches "thou shall not kill," Islam teaches "Kill the disbelievers wherever you find them," (Sura 2 Verse 191), and "Be ruthless to the infidels," (Sura 48 Verse 29).

Whereas Christianity teaches to be nice to everyone, Islam teaches "Take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends," (Sura 5 Verse 61 and Sura 60 Verse 13). 

Whereas Christianity teaches to help others in need, Islam teaches "Never be a helper to the disbeliever," (Sura 28 Verse 26).

Whereas Christianity teaches that human beings are created equal in justice, Islam teaches that "The unbelievers are the worst beasts in the eyes of Allah,"(Sura 8 Verse 55).

As I said above, Islam is the antithesis of Christianity time and time again.  It is the complete opposite of Christianity.  So now maybe you can understand how a nice Muslim isn't "practicing" his religion, whereas a "good" Muslim is being faithful to the cruelty that is Islam.  In other words, a nice Muslim is more like Jesus Christ than he is like the pedophile Muhammad.  The "good" Muslim who is practicing his Islamic religion, found in The Muslim War Manual, the Qur'an, is one hell-of-a-cruel SOB, and will always be one hell-of-a-cruel SOB for as long as he remains faithful to Islam.

A good Christian is obeying the Christian doctrine.  If he does it to the letter, he or she is called a "living saint."  I thought Mother Theresa was a good example. Don't look at me.

P.S. If there are any atheists out there, I have two questions for you: What is easier to believe, that matter is eternal, or that a Supreme Being with intelligence is eternal?  Also: If matter is eternal, how can the universe be "alive" and active at this stage?  May the Cause of all causes bless you.

Simon,
<div>  The only problem is that the UK is on its way out unless a Nationalist Party takes over. The Labour Party is nothing more than a politically correct joke and Obama will cause the same damage here. We are heading in the same direction as the UK in regards to Islam and immigration.</div>

CM,
<div>   The reason that I asked is that on most message boards people cannot even discuss Islam with liberals, as all the liberals do is attack anyone who even mentions Islam like a pack of wild dogs.</div>

.... Well... the problem for me is I am looking from the outside at this debate. My cultural norms are completely different from yours. I imagine my views would offend most people on this site.


But Actually I am interested in your views, and am trying not to wind people up here. But I am really amazed at the difference in our cultures and therefore our views.


Let me give you some examples of the difference: No one I know has ever displayed a union flag outside their house - Apart from Buckingham Palace.


The only time I have seen flags waved is during football matches and extreeme right wing demonstrations. Ultra nationalism is rather frowned on in this country.


Also the fundamentalist christian views are regarded as bizzare, frightening or possibly even comedic.


True Tony Blair has made a big thing of his faith... that is pretty rare. It is also interesting to note that the christian Tony Blair has has launched more wars and bombed to death more people than any other Prime Minister in the last 65 years.... so much for the religion of love peace and "turn the other cheek" !


We don't sell guns... the police generally don't carry them.. now and again some drug dealers shoot each other, and occasionally (as is happening now) a kid in liverpool gets shot. But to be honest it's pretty rare.


The extreeme patriotism that exists in America doesn't really happen here, and neither does the religious extreemism. (appart from the muslims we have let in- they are very extreem... although to be honest not all of them)


Abortion is a done deal here... it's never under debate. Anyone who starts objecting to it on christian grounds would generally be considered a nut job.


We have gay civil unions (something I am extremely proud of)... it has taken a bit of time but we got there. Gay couples can legally adopt, and the Catholic adoption agency that tried to block that has been defeated. So even they can't refuse to place a child with a gay couple.


So here the church and state are really well seperated, if a prime minister started saying god bless Britain he would be laughed out of town.


Now I would imagine a lot of you guys will want to start howling in outrage at some of the above.... but that is my point really, we come from wildly different cultures.


Median (for example)  your post strikes me almost like a cartoon represention of ignorance. I can't believe you are for real. From where I stand your post sounds like the foam - flecked rantings of uneducated rightwing lunatic. I really can't believe anyone can be so ignorant and stupid..... and I would have to spend many years this side of the pond trying to find someone who would agree with anything you said. You strike me as the intellectuall equivalent of a hill billie in the film Deliverance.


... oh and don't even get me started on Sarah Palin :(


So that's what I think... sorry you asked?

simon-


?

Bah, DEFY all reason.

jennyjen-


You may be right. People "cling" to religion in ways that define all reason sometimes.

"Amen to that ! "


.... I'll get my coat

CM- You're definitly an optimist

jennyjen-


I think it's just natural for people to get highly protective and sensitive of their faiths. Hell, Isaac Hayes quit South Park and cut off all ties with the creators when they mocked Scientology. Most people don't like having their religions made fun of.



But at least he didn't start making death threats. And this is the problem that's happening with many Muslim societies now. They get offended, and then someone from the group comes out and kills the offender. Hadiths (a written collection of quotes made by Mohammad) that state "anyone insulting the prophet needs to be killed" probably don't help.


I'd like to think that in 500 years, Muslims will not have such violent reactions to criticism and "disrespect". Maybe I'm an optimist. But I think it's safe to assume that all Christians today would view the torture of heretics in the 1200s and the burning of witches in the 1600s as barbaric. Perhaps in the future Muslims will feel this way about their past as well.

Doesn't anyone get the big picture? Barry changed his name to Obama Hussenin, why? He is one of them. He doesn't celebrate Xmas, wants to open all doors to any illegals, $840 poverty act (only 5% to Americans,95% to muslim countries)..he is an IMPLANT and people with big bucks, George Sorus & the media (is owned by the Saudis) and they have taken over the US. All chat rooms or comments are one sided your banned if you counter the democrat response which are wacos. All they need is 10% and there in our government, they are the virus. They are here are WE are about to be marked, tor be illuminated, trust me on this. The democrats are traitors. They sold their own kids, families and country for another Hitler, a Muslim Leader, who HATES America the working people  will pay, we are his new slaves. I see OBooma signs or hear his voice and I want to throw up--him with his new SS (ACORN) recruits--(he is getting new recruits all over the US). Terroists should never -ever be allowed in the US. Immigrants came to worship, not to take over our culture. But, they are here and in the White House. First its get rid of the word GOD in everything, he get s rid of the consitution, he openly defies the bible (muslim), the media has covered his identiy who he is..can you imgaine where is all this money coming from? Why hasn't the FBI, DOJ, DHS done anything about the raping of our country by the democrats? The George Sorus Democratic PAC Alliance? And the Jewish people "why" would they support either of these demons? G.Sorus was a scanvenger, made his first millions by selling all the belongings from dead JEWS. Obooma is born under the same dragonian STAR same as Hitler, and Moussenli, he is the recarination of  terror. Look it up. Someone, some group is the puppet master. Pay benefits to illegals? Who haven't paid a dime in taxes? Bring down ALL defenses? ALL, and this guy is an ex-cocaine addict who will know our most top secrets?? commander of our military? WOW. ANd he is buddies with terroists? Why do we need DHS anymore? We are setting ducks with this guy. Don't want that 6 month baby? Have it at home and throw it the trash--its OK-under the freedom of choice act. He doesn't care, they aren't muslim babies. And, his wife with a $500 snack? she is spreading her wealth around?  Now he is worth $75million. seems he enjoyes that captalism he wants to detroy for the rest of us.

Chris, Oh I know, the UN is so politically correct it's morally incorrect. They can chastise any country or religion besides Islamic countries and Islam. I like to call it bullshit but you can call it what you want.
CM- exactly! Why are they so violent and protective of Islam? Christianity is under constant scrutiny and we can't even ask a simple question about Islam without insulting it? It's an inquiry, the more they hide the more suspicious I get and so should the rest of the world.
Tonto- excellent! I love your posts and I agree with the jiza thing. It's a power trip.

Here! here! CM

Actually after the first Gulf war, there was a revolt in Iraq... encouraged by George Bush senior. While the marsh arabs, and kurds revolted, Saddam turned his remaining troops on them, and the west just watched as they were slaughtered. I saw  the figuir of 80,000 people were killed by Saddam as he re-asserted himself.
A tragic and shameful episode



The reason there were no other rebellions under Saddam was that his whole security system was designed to supress any such event. To prevent his generals turning on him, military officers were not allowed to contact each other. The different branches of his army had no contact with each other, radio or phone. Which is why when the war started the whole lot collapsed like a pack of cards.
Saddams army was not really designed for fighting wars by this time, it was designed simply for internal supression.
 Saddam had spies everywhere, any hint of rebellion was met with crushing force. His closest aides were all family members (or members of his "tribe"). 


The kurds were gassed from the air using nerve gas as we know (this was used as one of the excuses for the second gulf war, although when it happened years before we did nothing)


I can only suppose that people didn't rebel because they and their whole family would be killed. He was a dictator in the Salin mode. Totally paranoid, and unbelievably violent and sadistic.


When he was a child he carried a metal bar with him to school for protection, and his father used to take him to watch prisoners being tortured. If you wanted to survive in Iraq the best advice would be to keep your head down!

It's the violent reaction of Muslims to criticism and perhaps even ridicule of Islam that made me come to this site. Christianity deals with criticism and ridicule on a daily basis. Get over it, and don't freaking kill people or issue fatwas over hurt feelings.

I wonder what would happen if a country, of any persuasion,  who has citizens of it's country, living in moslem countries, acting as dhimmis, paying jism (or whatever they call it), demanded that any muzleems that came into that country to do turn about....like act like reverse dhimmis and pay a fee for being there.  Not just pay taxes, but a special tax for being muz and being allowed to be there.  The reaction to that would be very interesting.  I could see walking down the street in Dearborn, seeing muz with crescents on their clothes and jumping out of the way as I strolled.....that would give anyone an exagerated feeling of worth.  That's the way I percieve it's done in rag-head countries, so maybe that makes them feel that those shitholes actually amount to something.  They have someone to look down on.
  Take a real good look at muz dominated countries.  Backward, ignorant, primitive, repressive, and usually dominated by a strongman dictator, or a cabal of individuals, that rule with the whip and the gun.  Saddam's Iraq and the mullah's Iran are fine examples.  Rule by intimidation and murder.  Excessive abuses of power.  Graft.  Corruption.  Goon squads.  A restive population that either runs away to America.......or prays for the day that America will rescue their sorry asses.  And they must be pretty gutless.  Saddam ruled for 30 years.  Saddam's kids killed and raped and tortured almost at will.  Did we see a revolt?  Hell no!  Iran supposedly had a revolution, pretty bloodless though.  The 8 yrs of war between Iraq and Iran that killed millions is puzzling though.  They just kept dying, on both sides, and seemed willing to do so.  Somebody tell me about that.  Help me understand how they would not revolt but keep dying in war with another country.

Chris-


Right. Democracy in the Middle East doesn't seem to be the answer at this point. And I'm still trying to formulate ideas on what that answer might be.


I don't know if I consider myself a liberal. From what I've always understood -- and maybe this is simplistic -- "liberal" means someone who supports the Democratic Party and watches MSNNBC. "Conservative" is someone who supports the Republican Party and watches Fox News. I'm a registered Independent voter, but I watch MSNNBC and definitely do not like FOX News. So perhaps that makes me a liberal-sympathizer. :)

JJ,
<div>  The UN is not even allowed to talk about Islam in a negative way. Please read these 3 articles.</div>
<div>http://islaminaction08.blogspot.com/search?q=un+bans+criticism+of+islam
</div>

CM,
I guess we could say Islam is going thru it's teenage stage. Teenagers get disciplined when they screw up. I know I did.
So that leaves the rest of the modern world to deal with an angsty so-called religion? They are killing people in an era where violence is not supposed to be the answer. They continue to be violent, hateful people with a terrible body odor.  The UN needs to put their foot down (if they even remember how to do so) and use the words of my granny, "go cut yer switch and bring it here"

Thanks JJ,
<div>    I would not be so modest if we had a private message option. hehe</div>
<div>
</div>
<div>Simon, I agree with you 100%, until things change in the Middle East, we need to keep them out of here.</div>
<div>
</div>
<div>CM,</div>
<div>  I read that the pro-Sharia Muslim Brotherhood would easily win in Egypt if they were to allow a fair election. They are extremenly powerful and also have some seats in the Jordan government. We wanted democracy in the Middle East and all they have done is use it against us. Thanks for reading the article, do you consider yourself a liberal. Just curious.</div>
<div>
</div>

jennyjen-


I've observed that as well -- that Christianity is much older than Islam, and perhaps Islam is currently in it's awkward, angsty, self-discovery phase. Even Judaism did it's share of warring back in the day.


The only problem is that the weapons of today cause much, much more destruction. Back then you only had swords. :/

Hm. Yes, that terrorist groups and sympathizers are being democratically elected into government truly is a matter of deep concern. And I haven't any idea what to do about that distressing fact.

But in the meantime keep them out of your country!... that's where we have gone wrong over here!

I think that you are 100% correct jennyjen
.. christianity has had a new testament, and (in Europe) has been through a reformation, the renassance and the enlightenment.


None of the above is true of islam. Basically they are still in the dark ages... and that is the problem. 


But generally speaking jaw jaw is better than war war, and we have to be careful of believing you can bomb people into agreeing with you. I don't think that works, it just radicalises people even more.

Chris, I applaud your modesty :P
I also agree with your statement, "When moderate Muslims gain control of Islam, please let me know".  I need that call as well.
Christianity used to be hardcore fire and brimstone and your going to hell if you work on Sunday. Now, it's a little looser thanks to moderates. There are still a few kinks in the system but overall it has maintained. Christianity is like 1000 years older than Islam so do we have to wait another 1000 years to see moderate Islam hit the mainstream?

<div>CM,</div>
<div>I agree that is what the Western world is hoping for,  but facts show that the opposite is happening. 1400 years of waiting is long enough for me and it is just plain foolish to allow them to come here while we are at war in 4 Islamic countries.
</div>
<div>
</div>
<div>http://islaminaction08.blogspot.com/2008/05/its-only-fewthats-what-they-keep.html
</div>
<div>
</div>
<div>
</div>

Chris-


I think that's really what most of the Western world is hoping/fighting for. Not for all Muslims to convert their beliefs into atheism or Hinduism or Christianity or what have you. But just for them to chill out and stop using the Qur'an to justify (1) murdering, (2) oppressing, (3) breaking the laws of the land, and (4) crusading.

When "moderate" Muslims gain control of Islam, please let me know.

Jen,
<div>   Since this is my first week here, I will behave for NOW.</div>

No it does not matter, as Muslims are taking over more and more of the world.
<div>"Moderate" Muslims are irrelevant.</div>

Chris,


I think it certainly does matter, because those that do not believe in a strict interpretation of Islam do not wish to live under the sharia, much less impose it on non-Muslims. (If indeed you are concerned about Muslims trying to make Islamic law the law of the land.)

Islam is NOT a religion, it is a CULT of violent intimidation and hate- This danger will not decrease with moderate Muslim input- They all read the same book- They all recite the same verses- Across the board, they are ALL THE SAME- since the Muzz world will not tolerate us, it's time we reciprocated with the same attitude- All Muzz are enemies of America and all of them must leave this land- No cease and desist, no apologetic conversions, no promises to change- Just pack them up and ship them out of here before they come down your street [with Obama's blessing] and cut you down in your front yard- That's what they want and that's what they're sworn to Allah-Satan to get- Please have the common sense to see these things for what they really are- Please have the backbone to be politically incorrect and call them by their real names: CHILDREN OF SATAN- And muster the courage to gun them down if they won't get on the boat- We're dying here; it's time to act..........

Dammit Chris that's no fun! LOL! I thought "holding our tongues" was something that doesn't fit in on this site! :P

I'll bite my tongue on that comment. haha

I'll hold you down and make you like it Chris haha!

Stop shoving BBQ ribs down my throat Jen!! lol!!
<div>j/k</div>
<div>
</div><div>
</div>
<div>
</div>

CM, Southerners aren't trying to impose their way of life on an entire country like Muslims. I'm not going to force BBQ and tater salad down your throat but Muslims are forcing their religion down our throats and it doesn't stop their.
Nice thread y'all, I'd love to see 10 Muslims take on 100 good ol' boys! They'd be disillusioned real quick!

The Koran tells them that they can defeat an enemy 10x their size. Meaning that 10 of them can defeat 100 of us. People who think that they have Muslim friends will see their true colors as their numbers go up here. I have spoken to many Europeans who were fooled also. Islam is their number one priority.

studies have shown that the so called "American moderate muslim" is a fairy tale.  they still support the jihad (with donations and faith), they agree with bin laden and support the world domination of islam.   they will not speak out about it, not because they are afraid of repraisal, but because of their belief in the koran and islam which says to do thhis.

we havn't moved up to the outright violent confrontations (as in the middle east and the EU) because of their low numbers.  we just keep having the "lone crazed gunman" scenarios and then the suspect is sent for "psychological testing"

they constantly lie about how many of them are here, cair says 10 million, but independent counts put it at less than 2 million.  so they are less than 2% of our population.  we will see a big change in their attitudes when they really get to about 10-15% of our population.  then they will more openly force islam on us.  in those areas where they have the upper hand they already are.  there are already American public schools with muslim staff that are forcing the education and submission of islam on the students.

soon we will have "no go" zones, like in the EU, where even the police can't go safely.  you will have to hide your religion, priests wont show their collar, forget about a cross being visible as this will provke and bring attack.  Americans will start to feel trapped in their homes, they will then do what the rest of the world has been doing, move away and surrender their land to the muslims and they will grow.

watch the news, they are already not saying muslim, jihad or islam.  they will also start not putting the attackers name in the article if it is easily ID'ed as muslim. in England the word to look for is "asian", they consider anyone from the middle east asian.

All we have to do is ask them and Europeans what is coming our way,  but that is not good enough for our leaders. They have to remain in the fantasy land that this will be the one country in the world where Muslims act differently.

Exactly correct.  I had a couple Lebanonese working for me that came over in 1939.

No I just know some people in Michigan. I read that Christians from Lebanon started to go the Michigan to escape Islam decades ago. Now Islam has followed them there.

ender and Chris,    Are you guys from Michigan?  I used to live in the Northville, Plymouth, Canton area.  I like Tennessee better.  No snow.

The people that come here from the Middle East should have to sign some kind of paper saying that they have left Islam and then if they are found to be lying the penalty would be deportation with no return.

Chris, I'll pay for their one-way tickets if they renounce their American citizenship and promise not to come back.  Not as cheap as bullets, but I wouldn't have to deal with the karma.  Any muzleems that genuinely convert or renounce islam are welcome here however.

CM,
<div>  Do you really think that it matters if not all of them think alike? The Middle East and Turkey were not alway Islamic. Now they are taking over large portions of Europe. </div>
<div>That is the bottom line. Trying to sort out the good from the bad does not work and the push for Sharia will get stronger and stronger. It will be their way of life or ours.</div>

Chris,


Do you really think there is no difference in the beliefs, attitudes, and actions of Muslims in the US, the UK, and around the world?

Tonto,
   If the US Muslim converts had to spend time in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan or Iran they would come running back and leave Islam as soon as they got off of the plane.

That is exactly right Ender. They also make sure that they get voted in on local levels. Like in Hamtramck Michigan where they have the calls to prayers being boardcast. The broadcasts broke the noise oridance laws, but there were at least 2 Muslims on the City Council there, so they just voted in the calls to prayers. They are using our freedoms against us and if they take over, they will tear up the U.S. Constitution.

thats what I am saying.  they have taken over dearborn and the surrounding area.  have settled in to MN and elected a muslim senator.  but people here keep saying "it wont happen here" but I keep saying "it already is".

we have right now in America  "honor killings", slaves, call to prayer being played over several communities, and the infiltration of our schools, media and food supply.

You know, honestly, I think right now in the world, ALL religions are "under fire".  Most of it is pretty peaceful, like in the US where the ACLU elites are against the posting of the 10 Commandments in City Halls and Christmas Creches etc.  But in muzleem contries and anywhere they slither in, the violence appears, and the next thing you know, you've got a bloody shit storm going on.  And it's always the muz that start it.  It's the nature of mankind to question, and most faiths welcome that questioning because that opens a dialogue.  The muz, if islam is questioned, instantly reply with unbridled violence......jihad.  Well, I've got an answer.  Go back to the shithole you crawled out of, or if you're idiot enough to convert to islam, take your ass over there and see how fucked up it really is.  Just don't DARE complain to me about it.

they settle together, get the government check (welfare or the dole) and then breed as fast as they can.  So in 20 years they will out number everyone else and vote you into hell.
for proof see Australia (muslim women ordered to have at least 4 kids), see any country in the EU.  muslims move in, secure a neighborhood, start breeding and evryone else moves away.  they take over one block at a time.

"I thought to myself, let me make sure I got this straight and asked “so you think Muslims are superior and non-Muslims should pay you”. She again said “yes”."

Islam violates our Declaration of Independence, which is the highest law of the United States - higher than the Constitution.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident; that all men are created equal..."  Thomas Jefferson

This means that all men are created equal before the law, i.e.: American equality. As long as Islam says that Muslims are superior to non-Muslims, Islam is anti-American. As long as Islam says that Muslims are superior to non-Muslims, Islam violates God's law: "So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them."

Well they could a lot more in the dealing with the problem.
<div>
</div>
<div>They do not have to get all the laws changed to get their way for now. Getting the laws changed is the final step. All they have to do is form there own communities and constantly complain what bothers them and how things offend them. Then the politically correct crowd comes running to cater to them.</div>
<div>Little by little they change things to suit Islam and then one day non-Muslims wake up and say hold on a minute. That is what is taking place in Europe now. If non-Muslims do not push back the Muslim community will walk all over us, with no concerns for our beliefs.</div>

"Good" in quotations -- are you saying there are no such things as "good" Muslims?


Do you feel that if enough Muslims immigrate to the US or the UK, they will eventually end up getting all the laws changed to suit their own personal beliefs?

Kal,
<div>   I figured that this board is full of them also, I am just finding my way around.</div>

CM,

Reagarding Chris' comment about looking to Europe, a lot of my posts have to do with what muslims are doing in Europe.

CM,
<div>  There is no way to separate the "good" Muslims from the bad and the bottom line with Muslim immigration is trouble. Muslim immgration is not worth the risk or all the problems that come along with it. It is irresponsible to our country and our families future generations to continue to allow them to come here.</div>

jennyjen-


Sorry. I don't really believe all Southerners are like that. :) It's just that so many generalizations are being thrown around here -- about Muslims, about Christians, about liberals -- it only seemed fair.


I want to see Islam abolished/reformed as much as the next guy, but not because of generalized notions about what kinds of people Muslims are. I know there are many different kinds of Muslims, some cool, others not. And I'm not going to blindly, hastily throw them all into one category. That would just be irresponsible.

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<div>Sure here are a few. The Sharia Courts there which were supposed to be for civil cases have also started handling criminal cases such as domestice voilence.</div>
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<div>http://islaminaction08.blogspot.com/2008/10/islam4uk-out-with-uk-law-in-with.html
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<div>http://islaminaction08.blogspot.com/2008/09/uk-muslim-sues-supermarket-chain.html
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<div>http://islaminaction08.blogspot.com/2008/09/muslims-try-to-stop-uk-supermarket-from.html
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Eh, woops. I meant to post that last comment here.


Thanks, Chris. Re: intentions of Muslim communities in Europe — do you have some articles about this matter?

CM, please don't dog on Southerners. I'm American by birth and Southern by the Grace of God. I have a high school diploma and a college education and I'm a Christian. I don't think I am better than anyone, I work 40 hours a week and I'm on call 24-7 for emergencies (I think that takes care of the laziness as well).
I do despise Islam and its teachings of world domination. Chris called this girl out, she thinks non-Muslims should have to pay a tax for not being Muslim as taught in the Koran which just goes to show old dogs and new tricks don't work out. Islam is an old dog, human rights being the new trick.

CM,
   I have been doing my own research for about 5 years now. The Koran quotes that I post come from the University of Southern California. The translations are from these two men.

Hafiz Abdullah Yusuf Ali (14 April 1872 - 10 December 1953) was a South Asian Islamic scholar who translated the Qur'an into English.^[1] His translation of the Qur'an ranks alongside the translation of Marmaduke Pickthall as the most widely-known and used in the world.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_Yusuf_Ali

As for the Muslims here we are just seeing the beginning of their demands. Look to Europe to see what is coming our way in regards to the Muslim community.

Hey, Chris, I have a question -- 


I think I read somewhere on this site that you've been studying Islamic faith and culture? Have you been doing this at the university level?

I think most individual Muslims (including gay Muslims, alcohol-drinking Muslims) have a difficult time reconciling "reform" with the idea that the Qur'an is supposed to be the unadulterated word of god. So either they live with the idea that they are sinners, try to do some individual interpretation and live the lives they wish while still claiming Muslim faith, or abandon the faith completely. This third choice is probably the most difficult (for ANYONE of ANY faith).


I don't know a single Muslim who thinks his or her non-Muslim friends should pay a jizyah. So I'm assuming they fall into that second category, and that's something I can live with.

The problem is that Muslims believe that the Koran is in God's words and that mere man cannot not change his words. That is why Islam will not reform.

"These [Southern Christians] actually think they are better than other people. It doesn’t matter if they are less educated, and they usually are.  It doesn’t matter if they are lazy, and full of hate.  These [Southern Christians] truly think they’re better."


That also sounds about right.


Anyway, as long as "People of the Book" do not become open to the idea that what is written in their scripture was better suited to deal with the problems faced in tribal societies thousands and thousands of years ago, ideas like this -- that non-Muslims should submit to Islam, pay the jizyah or be killed -- will never, ever go away.

I believe that many of the people who convert to Islam have little power in their lives and then they believe that they have found some in Islam. That is why they then convert.

Don't forget that most Muslims have been brainwashed.  These Muslims actually think they are better than other people.   It doesn't matter if they are less educated, and they usually are.  It doesn't matter if they are lazy, and full of hate.  These Muslims truly think they're better.  These Muslims are taught filth and violence.  The Muslim War Manual, the Qur'an, contains well over 100  violent suras, and what makes it so bad is that serious Muslims take these suras seriously.
I'll list only a few verses from the Muslim War Manual, the Qur'an.

1. "Infidels are your sworn enemies," (Sura 4 Verse 101.

2.  "Make war on the infidels around you," (Sura 9 Verse 123 and Sura 66 Verse 9).

3.  "Be ruthless to the infidels," (Sura 48 Verse 29).

4.  "Fight those who believe not Allah nor the Last Day," (Sura 9 Verse29).

5.  "Take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends," (Sura 28  Verse 61 and Sura 60 Verse 13).

6.  "Kill the disbelievers wherever you find them," (Sura 2 Verse 191).

Chris, is  that evil woman, who has been brainwashed, a good girl?  Well, no.  That woman  convert, Ms Susan Ellenberg, is an evil Muslim since she believes every word of the Qur'an, The Muslim War Manual.  But don't kill her unless she comes after you with a mortal weapon.