UK:Govt Gives Stamp of Approval to Chain of Sharia Courts

by admin on October 25, 2008 · View Comments

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The government of the UK has given its stamp of approval by allowing sharia courts to deal with such matters as divorce and family disputes. The politically correct government obviously did not listen when a group of ex-Muslims came out and warned the country about sharia law. Nor did they listen to the speeches of Muslims who are holding conferences across the country calling for Muslims to reject UK law and for sharia to be the only law of the land. On top of this the government is spending millions of dollars to try and put a positive image on Islam. Personally I do not see anything positive about Sharia courts and obviously the UK has just put another nail in its coffin.

 

Islamic courts cleared to deal with family and divorce disputes as Government endorses sharia
By Steve Doughty
25th October 2008
Islamic courts have been cleared to deal with family and divorce disputes.
Islamic courts will be able to decide how a Muslim couple divide their money and property and who gets the children.

Sharia tribunals will be able to decide how a Muslim couple divide their money and property and who gets the children.

The sole proviso from Jack Straw’s Justice Ministry is that a formal law court must rubber-stamp the ruling.

This would be in the form of a two-page form sent to a judge sitting in a family court. The divorcing couple would not need to attend.

The decision follows nine months of controversy over the role of tribunals run according to Islamic strictures.

In February, Downing Street slapped down the Archbishop of Canterbury when he suggested the rise of sharia law seemed ‘unavoidable’.

But in July, Lord Phillips, who has since retired as Lord Chief Justice, said sharia principles could be the basis for resolving family and business disputes.

Muslim ministers have warned that sharia should not have an official role because it accords unequal status to men and women.

Giving more weight to evidence from men could hand them a greater share of property and enhanced custody rights.

Lawyers said yesterday that using the secretive family courts to endorse sharia decisions would draw a veil over matters of wide public interest.

Critics of the idea said yesterday advancing the role of Islamic tribunals would further marginalise isolated minority communities.

The endorsement of sharia was announced to MPs by Bridget Prentice, a junior justice minister.

She said the councils would still have no jurisdiction in England and that rulings by religious authorities had no legal force.

But Miss Prentice added: ‘If, in a family dispute dealing with money or children, the parties to a judgment in a sharia council wish to have this recognised by English authorities, they are at liberty to draft a consent order embodying the terms of the agreement and submit it to an English court.

‘This allows English judges to scrutinise it to ensure that it complies with English legal tenets.’

A consent order allows couples to have a ‘clean break’ divorce in which there are no long-term maintenance payments.

The orders can be approved only where a couple have negotiated and agreed all aspects of their break-up such as money, debts, property and children. The family court judge must decide whether the agreement is reasonable and ensure no side has been disadvantaged.

The great majority of consent orders are approved.

Barrister Neil Addison said yesterday: ‘If the system works, the judge will not allow an agreement where there has been pressure on one party. He allows a consent order only if the agreement seems reasonable.

‘However most mediation of disputes takes place in private and agreements are approved in open court. This is different – the original sharia law is secret and so is the judgment.’

Robert Whelan, of the Civitas think-tank, said: ‘The problem with the Government’s attitude is the big question over how far submission to sharia courts is voluntary among Muslim women.

‘Women who live in some communities may have no option but to go to the sharia court. The case is then rubber-stamped by a family court without any of us knowing how the decision was reached.’

Islamic tribunals have authority to make decisions in business and financial disputes where both parties agree to accept arbitration.

Five sharia courts operate mediation systems under the Arbitration Act of 1996.

But financial disputes are less controversial because they are much less likely to raise problems over the status of women.

Link to Article

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  • simon

    She said the councils would still have no jurisdiction in England and that rulings by religious authorities had no legal force.

    please note the above caveat. I live in the uk, the basic position seems to be if you can settle it quietly between yourselves and you are both happy to do that then as long as it does not conflict with the law of the land then there is no problem.

    The same thing apples to jewish mediation, where a Rabbi might make the descision on say for  example about a divorce or something similat.

    THESE DECISIONS CARRY NO WEIGHT UNDER BRITISH LAW… THEY ARE SIMPLY A PRIVATE AGREEMENT BETWEEN PEOPLE.

    I think  that point should be clarified, before we all get hold of the wrong end of the stick

  • Chris

    Please, save the excuses as I have spoken to hundreds of people there. Pandora’s Box has been opened as the courts are already trying criminal cases.

    http://islaminaction08.blogspot.com/2008/09/sharia-courts-quickly-spread-through-uk.html

    Your country is catering to a group of people who do not give a damn about you or what you want.

    BTW,  Jews are not on a worldwide jihad, so the comparsion is not valid and Muslim women will get the short end of the stick here.

  • ender

    imagine how easy the Revolutionary War would have been if England had rolled over this easily just 200 years ago. 
    This isn’t just some colony its the homeland splitting itself up.
    oh well, at least they didn’t lose to the french.

  • Joan

    There is no place in Britain for Sharia Law courts at all, nor for Mosques that do all it their power to preach and teach hate. Plus radicalise the youth and all who are vulnerable.
    The idea that  Sharia Law  are simply an agreement between two people holds no weight and is not a sensible arguement. They are legally binding in cases of domestic abuse and now family courts. Women will lose out and get sub treatment.
    Sharia Law is the pretext for many Muslims claiming sanctuary in the UK and now they have brought it with them, which makes their arguement baseless of fleeing sharia. Thus entering the UK on a false pretext All who have entered to flee Sharia should now be sent back as they are here on false pretenses as it is here.
    The bringing of the Jews into it is just another well known deflection to try and get the heat off Islam.
    The plain truth is the majority of ordinary silent people of the UK do not want sharia law courts on their land.
    Can i suggest if you  support Sharia  you take yourself off to a Muslim and Sharia run nation. You will be missed-not.

    Joan of Ark

  • Chris

    Joan, the UK needs more like you. Well actually most of the Brits that I have spoken to feel exactly as you do. Muslims do not belong there.

  • Joan

    It will end in tears. Muslim tears

  • simon

    chris if they are trying criminal cases then it has no legal standing.  They have no right to try crimminal cases, and their judgment holds no legal weigh under British law. 
    Joan no sharia judgment is binding in english law. English law does not recognise sharia law. The only law in england is British law. No other law applies.

    If a moslem woman goes to a so called sharia court and asks for a shria ruling…. that ruling has no meaning in British law.

    What is happening in this country… an this should be a warning to everyone….. we have massive groups of moslem immigrants in this country. In the North we have huge sections of towns that are completely moslem. Many immigrant moslem men get wives from India and Pakistan. They have a completely alien belief system, often from tribal areas of India or Pakistan. They do not speak english and take their religion as truth.

    These communities, like all comunities of settlers world wide… Americans, Ausralians, British take their culture with them. They worship at mosques, often the women in particular have little contact with the outside world, often don’t speak english, probably can’t go out, are not allowed to speak to men. And don’t know anything about Britain and its legal system.

    what is happening is that these communities are setting up their own networks, with mosques. imamns, courts etc.

    Of course if you are a strict moslem from pakistan and you were brough over by a moslem man you will follow the teachings of the elders of you community. 

    So without going on too much…. we have very large populations of moslems mainly from india and pakistan and Somalia who live an islamic life and who chose to live by islamic rulings.

    Really this is a bit of a nightmare…. “Houston we have a problem”.

    Now I am not in favour of islamic courts or the whole islamic belief situation.

    But where do we go from here? Well lets get one thing straight at the start. I have a postgraduate degree in law ( but unfortunately failed to get in to Bar school :( )
    but this is the crucial point

    Sharia courts, have absoutely no relevance to british law. British law is the law of the land… full stop… or as you guys say PERIOD

    When the archbishop of Cantabury said he though one day some elements of Sharia law would be implemented here, there where howls of protest… he nearly lost his job on that one.

    But the problem we have in a sense is that these courts are already operating, particularly in family matters. Now here’s the thing…. if a couple go to one and an Imamam makes a judgement (whatever the issue is). If both parties are happy and agree to the judgment… what can you do?
    I’m serious… what can you do … really?

    You could pay snoopers to go around spying on these sharia courts, as soon as a judgment is made, report it to the police, then go to a british court, to have the first ruling overturned…. 
    The sharia court is not recognised under british law… the above judgment is not recognised…. so what do you do.

    The point about the jews also needs clarifying,
    We have loads of jews here who live often in communities. they often have a Rabbi. In north london we have large communities of Hassidic jews, who have curly sidelocks, 18 century style russian half-trousers, and big black hats.

    Now these jewish communities answer to their Rabbi. Go to Jewish mediation boards, presided over by a Rabbi. He makes a pronouncment. 

    These Rabinnical pronouncements have no legal staus under British law.

    The Archbishop after his slamming by the press… used these Jewish courts as an example of a community policing itself using i’ts own religious practices and laws.

    Now it is also true that the jews are great to live with… I probably wouldn’t get invited to a my Hassidic jews barbecue…. but there is no problem with integration. So my point is the jews live in communites in certain areas and do have a seperate system in extreem cases.. but it is not a problem.

    It is not a problem because it will not involve
    forced marriage
    honour killings
    wife beating
    bomb building
    or worst of all … not liking dogs

    So anyway yes we have a problem, you can’t actually stop people doing what they want… all you can say is it carries no weight under british law.

    anyone who says anything differen is quite simply WRONG

    But what can you do?… what can you do?

     

  • http://www.mosquewatch.blogspot.com Jeff

    7 years ago my British friends berated me, made fun of me, laughed at me when I scolded them for their Government making them a defensless people with out guns. They told me “I don’t want your American way of gun toting life.” I tried my best to explain the importance of a people being able to defend themselves from the domestic enemies in their midst.  If any Brits feel that I am gloating, I’m not. I’m honestly sick to my stomach. Your enemies have bomb belts, molotav cocktails, you as the people have …….

    a phone in order to call the paramedics to pick up the dead bodies of your loved ones, after the bomb goes off .  Please ask yourselves, why does your government fear their own people with guns ?

    The answer should scare the hell out of you.  How long will you be sheep , ready for the slaughter? What Country are Muslim thugs more likely to openly riot?

    An unarmed UK, or a “Gun toting” America?
    This message posted with respect and my heartfelt love of the United Kingdom and it’s people. I have family their. Been their. The UK is not being killed,,,

    it’s suicide.

    Jeff

  • simon

    … oh and to Ender…don’t worry mate – we will never lose to the French! :)

    France has exactly the same problem too. If the birthrate calculations are right… by 2050 they will be in the majority.

    … something will have to happen if we want to keep democracy and free speech

  • simon

    Hi Jeff, the problems we have in this country will not be solved by giving everyone a gun. You will have to trust me on that. 

    I am sure you thing guns will solve everything.. trust me they wont.

    We are not living in the wild west here! We are not exactly making our cars into a circle and fighting off a band of whooping Islamists throwing bombs at us.

    We have a serious problem of islamic extreemism, and terrorism. It is a new problem for most people… the last lot of anti-social immigrants we had to deal with were the Irish !

    … so we are do have a problem. But everyone walking round London with a gun.
    Is not going to help.
    … but i don’t really have any answers mate :(

  • Chris

    Simon,

       Them trying criminal cases shows that they have NO respect for the UK and the your idiotic government only encourages them.  It is a problem if you would actually think past the day that you are in.  Also they can be stopped, sharia should be made illegal and those that call for Sharia arrested, jailed and or deported. A bill here in the US has already been written for just this reason.
     They tried to get sharia courts in Canada, they were told a flat out NO. So do not say they cannot be stopped.
    Once Muslims feel that the have enough strength there, they will say that the UK is an Islamic state. As under Islam, sharia is for all.
    Anyone who makes excuses for this is part of the PROBLEM.
    Take action is what you can do.
  • simon

    … so what do you mean illegal?

    are you saying it should be a criminal offence for a moslem couple to attend a moslem matriomonial mediation service presided over by an imam?

    … how do you make that illegal?

  • Joan

    Simon,
    I realise you have gone to great length to get your point across and also see in part what you mean, you are really saying that we have no choice and the fact we will be over run and in the minority is a complelling case.
    You also mention bomb building and i think that is the key. At the moment we have not had such an attack as America has had, but for how long can we really go on like that. Sooner or later we will have to deal with likewise, then i think will be the time the ordinary people of the UK will say we don’t want the Muslim way, including Mosques and Sharia. What then ? what when the silent majority have their loved ones murdered, will it be business as usual in the Sharia courts i think not.
    As for the Jews, they do go about their lives in a different way and that appears to be accepted, i accept it for one, the reason being i have not heard and do not believe they are plotting the demise of The UK and until i am  made aware different  then i will continue to accept their way of life, their big black hats, curls and Russian attire.
    Until i hear the Muslims have abandoned their killing intentions i will continue to speak my mind, that is they and their way of life are not welcome in the UK, their Mosques nor their Sharia law courts, be it legally binding or not, it is the thin end of the wedge.
    Joan

  • Chris

    Jeff,

      Watch the second video here,
    As UK Muslims bully the police and the police do not even call for back up.
  • Joan

    Jeff,
    I have news for you, the UK is flooded with illegal weapons from Russia and that way mostly.

  • simon

    I don’t see how you can make the meeting together of people – to solve a dipute, and both people agree to abide by it

    how would you propose to make that illegal?

    all you can do is : it has no legal status whatsoever under british law. And further if it involves a festival where kids beat themselves with chains, then (as happened last week)…. it will result in a criminal prosecution under british law 

  • Chris

    Muslims are calling them sharia courts. Just make sharia illegal and close them down. The article says that the courts are recognized under British law as long as the rulings fall under UK law. But now that Muslims have gotten this far, they will just push harder.

  • Chris

    I do not think the officals of the UK have the guts to take on the Muslims there. But it seems that many UK citizens do.

  • simon

    Hey joan
    I completely agree with you… you also agree with me, although you don’t seem to realise it. Jews aren’t plotting the demise of the UK…. yes that is my point exactly!… also they are democtratic… don’t have forced marriages… and I made a joke about moslems not liking dogs ( remember?… :) not really a joke anyway)
    so I’m sorry to dissapoint you Joan, but it appears we completely agree!

  • http://www.mosquewatch.blogspot.com Jeff

    Simon,

    “But everyone walking round London with a gun.
    Is not going to help. but i don’t really have any answers mate

    Let me try again. If you own a gun, in your home, post a sign outside that says “I gave a gun, if you break in my house I will shoot you.” Do you think that quite possibly the thief would pick and unarmed house ?  Not to mention, we are dealing with people that WANT TO DIE.  It’s only logical that if you are dealing with people that live to die, you had better be able to send the buggers to allah. The Christians in Lebanon made this same argument, and today hizbollah rules. Wake up brother, please.  You are in the wild west, your living amongst people that are wild, insane and want your death.

    Simon,  look at some pictures of the sudan, the 7/7 train bombings, 911, chechnya shool massacre, phillippine muslims beheading girls. How can you say this is not the “Wild west” ? Our enemies have made it so, you my friend had better realize it.  You are a good hearted person, that in some cases is your flaw.  Tell your leaders “Take sharia law and shove it”, oh hell, you probably can’t due that because of ‘hate speech’.  Why is it Muslims can openly call for the overthrow of the UK, and if anyone says ” i don’t like islam” can be jailed ?

    It’s a mess.  You take care, best of wishes for you and yours.

  • Joan

    Chris,
    In the 1970′s the UK made the IRA an illegal organisation and banned them. The reason for this is that they conducted a campaign of terror on the British mainland bombing.
    Muslims are conducting similar so i see no reason why they should not be outlawed.

    Joan

  • http://www.mosquewatch.blogspot.com Jeff

    Joan,
     you have just given me inspiration for a new video. TREMENDOUS COMMENT ! It won’t be on youtube though, I’m still banned from using my account. What a great post, total logic.

  • Joan

    simon,
    we completely agree on what ? That the Jews are not plotting to murder us and the Muslims are ? That there is no place in the UK for sharia ? That Muslims should be repatriated before the streets run with blood ? Do you agree with all of that the ?
    Joan

  • simon

    … well you may have hit the nail on the head.

    the only way to proceed is to make any meeting of moslems together. Particularly if it involves any dispute solving a crimminal offence.

    somenone must be paid to arresst them an charge them all with the crime of 

    “meeting together in a moslemey sort of way to do some moslemey things we don’t like… even though all of you like it and aren’t going to complain.”

    its a complicated law… but that seems to be the one we need to pass as law… does it sound reasonable to you?

  • Chris

    Jeff,

       Joan is a friend of mine from the UK. She is tough as nails, like Thatcher was!!
  • Joan

    Jeff,
    You are totally welcome, i will provide you with links if you wish.
    If you email chris he will give you my email address

    Joan

  • Storm-Rider

    The secular/Socialist elites of Europe (and in our Democrat Party) are in collusion with Islamic/Religious elites. The connection is elitism; i.e.: elite minority rule over the majority; unjust government power which does not derive from the consent of the governed; i.e.: government of the elite, by the elite and for the elite.

    We are all screwed unless we can reignite our origional American Revolution:

    1. Just government power must only derive from the consent of the governed.

    2, Our God-given human rights to life, liberty and creative pursuit of happiness are irreversable and are not derived from human government.

    3. All people are created equal under the law – not government enforced economic equality; i.e.: Marxist equality.

    “That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves.” Thomas Jefferson
    “I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” Thomas Jefferson
    “The true foundation of republican government is the equal right of every citizen in his person and property and in their management.” Thomas Jefferson
    “Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone. The people themselves are its only safe depositories.” Thomas Jefferson
    “The will of the people is the only legitimate foundation of any government, and to protect its free expression should be our first object.” Thomas Jefferson
    “A nation ceases to be republican…when the will of the majority ceases to be the law.” Thomas Jefferson
    “The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first.” Thomas Jefferson
    “When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.” Thomas Jefferson
    “The issue today is the same as it has been throughout all history, whether man shall be allowed to govern himself or be ruled by a small elite.” Thomas Jefferson
    “This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or exercise their revolutionary right to overthrow it.” Abraham Lincoln
    “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln

  • Chris

    Sounds reasonable to me.

  • Chris

    Jeff you can email me your address on the lower left hand side of my site.

  • Joan

    simon,
    It has become public knowledge that Muslims meeting in a Muslimey sort of way is leading to plots to murder the people of the UK and to fuel terror.
    The only way to control this radical behaviour is to curb the meetings.

    The youth of the UK are very often banned by ASBO law to stop meeting in groups as they cause anti social behaviour, the Muslims are causing such by blowing us up and plotting to do so.

    Joan

  • simon

    hi Joan

    yes that’s right
    we agree as follows…
    1 That the jews are not plotting to kill us an the moslems are. ++
    2 There is no place in the UK for Sharia.

    The question of re patration is I think to be honest a bit more complicated than a simple yes no answer.

    I dont think sending the police into bradford and rounding up anyone with a beard and a funny hat and brown skin, and putting them on a van.

    I don’t think that is the way to deal with anything.. two holocausts is too many.

    I propose, stopping any imigration from moslem countries.
    Deport terrorists to their own country (sadly this may involve sending them to a country that tortures… which is why we can’t send them at the moment)
    also
    teach sex lessons at school
    ban all religious dress at schools.
    stop single faith schools… and go for full integration that way.
    boys an girls do gym together moslem or not.
    all kids do music (moslems don’t like that one)

    … probably a few other things i could come up with given time

    ++ please note, I don’t think i would go as far as EVERY moslem want to murder me, Some may.. probably the majority of them wouldn’t.

  • Chris

    Extreme Muslims want to kill us.

    “Moderate” ones want to impose shaira on us. Either way we lose.
  • http://www.mosquewatch.blogspot.com Jeff

    Chris,

    I like Joan’s approach. No nonsense, no bs. I’m going to lay it on the line. ( Usually gets me banned, slapped down etc) End Muslim immigration into the UK, the US, France etc. I would honestly stop the building of all mosques in America.  Our big hearts and kind words will get us one thing.

    DEAD or dhimmitude.  I have no desire for either. I desire no peace, without freedom , I desire no negotiations with my enemy until he is flattened. And if our enemy desires death, give it to them. The day, when it come, when Muslims in America “demand” sharia law. If our leaders cave in, all hell will break loose. So be it. And I’m counting on it.

  • simon

    by the way Storm-Rider (would it be allright to call you Storm… or would you prefer Mr Rider.
    Very interesting post… I like that one…. couldn’t agree more

  • Joan

    Chris,
    The problem is we do not know which Muslims are terrorists do we ?It is without doubt every single Muslim is not, but the strong support for the Martyrs is unmistakable.
    The question of repatriation i feel will come up at some stage,
    joan

  • http://www.mosquewatch.blogspot.com Jeff

    simon
    “I dont think sending the police into bradford and rounding up anyone with a beard and a funny hat and brown skin, and putting them on a van.”

    Simon not all muslim are brown skinned. The Chechnyans are white, the chinese muslims are not brown skinned. Think out side the box . You are still thinking “Arab” Muslim. You have eyes brother, but you do not see.

  • Joan

    Jeff,
    What happens here today will happen in America tomorrow. You see all hell breaking loose there, and i see likewise here. I say it like it is.
    Joan

  • Chris

    Jeff, 

       I also am for Joan’s approach to the issue.  Jeff we already have one US backed sharia court in Texas. If you need the link, just let me know.
    Joan,
       There is not way to separate the “good” Muslims from the bad and that is why all Muslim immigration should be ended. They sit around silently and watch their Muslim brothers and sisters push forward with their Islamic agenda, with no concern for anyone else. 
  • Joan

    Simon,
    I see what you are saying but it’s too late. Would Muslims agree to go to same sex schools and attend gym lessons with boys ? would they ****

    Joan
     
     

  • http://www.mosquewatch.blogspot.com Jeff

    one US backed sharia court in Texas

    WHAT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!???????????????

  • simon

    ….yes end all moslem immigration… bit of hot potato… but i have to say i agree… but getting that one through parliment… shit… mmm

  • http://www.mosquewatch.blogspot.com Jeff

    LINK LINK LINK FOR THE SHARIA LAW IN TEXAS PLEASE BEFORE I BUST A BLOOD VESSEL !

  • Joan

    Jeff,
    You need to keep up. Here today there tomorrow.
    You need to follow Chris’s site. It has already started in America
    Joan

  • Joan

    Jeff,
    calm yourself

  • Chris

    Jeff,

       Here you go.
       http://islaminaction08.blogspot.com/2008/04/as-we-all-know-islamic-countries-across.html
    Yes Simon that is a tough one to pass. Some people will support Muslims no matter how bad it gets. (I do not mean you, I mean the weak leaders of the West.)
  • Chris

    Joan, 

      Jeff also runs a site, so he gets it mate.
  • simon

    jeff…. that was a joke… it was ironic… that is why i said it…

    it was an ironic parallel to the holocaust..

     i thought was unnecessary in my earlier post… but I was going to say (and wish I had said it now)

    if a Scottish woman, moves to london, and becomes a moslem, where do you re patirate her to? Scotland? 

    …. i’ll slow it down a bit for you Jeff in the future
    ;)

  • Joan

    And here we have it, what a nice note for me to go to bed on, what a nice ending to the day, Jeff has been woken out of his slumber.
    Just think of what a few million of his sort will do when they wake up.

    Goodnight all

    Joan

  • http://www.mosquewatch.blogspot.com Jeff

    Hey I’m just another dumb American ;)   Honestly I had no idea about the Texas issue, just found it on dhimmitube.Well , well , well , I have no right complaining about the UK when our leaders are the biggest idiots on the planet as well.  Good grief. Thanks very much for  the heads up on this.  I ponder why the MSM said nothing ? What a bloody mess.

  • Joan

    If a national of the UK converts either by marriage or otherwise to Islam then it is quite simple. If by marriage the woman is the nationality of her husband so is then Muslim, if by convert they are then Muslim. Their rights as a UK citizen have been forfeited. As most Mosques in the UK seem to be Saudi funded then Saudi would be the logical destination. In the case of the married woman then the nation of the person she has seen fit to marry.

    Joan

  • http://www.mosquewatch.blogspot.com Jeff

    if a Scottish woman, moves to london, and becomes a moslem, where do you re patirate her to? Scotland?

    Any place under Scotland ? ;) ( Sarcasm )

  • Joan

    MSM say nothing ?shock and horror, could it be they are trying to make us think we are all OK with each other do you think ?
    Brainwashing lad.

    Joan

  • Chris

    Message to Joan and Jeff…both of you are on the same side here.

    Jeff, we are following in the footsteps of the UK. The problem here is just not as bad yet.
  • Joan

    The problem here is the numbers and the smallness of the UK compared to the USA. It is far more noticed here as we are living so close together, it is obvious when the numbers increase you will be then were we are at.
    That is up the creek without a paddle.

    Joan

  • simon

    ok so what youre saying Joan is

    1 if i converted, being british, the moment i convert i can’t really re patriate because i am british anyway

    2 if i marry a moslem, the moment we marry  I should be deported to Saudi Arabia

    3 if i see fit to marry a woman – and we can actually find out where she is from (let us say India), the moment I give her the ring, I would be arrested and sent to India.

    4. If the above is wrong then is it because you want your rules only to apply to women?

    I think some clarification of your policy is required

  • Joan

    The question you asked was as follows,
    If a scottish woman moves to London and becomes a Moslim, where do you repatriate her to scotland ?
     
    I have therefore answered your question, you can either like it or lump it, but i have given you an answer.
     
    Joan

  • ender

    since islam is a 7th century death cult, why not deport them with 7th century technology.
    I recommend a catapult.  make it big enough to seat 20 and get some good air and distance.
    so wherever they came from or converted from we send them to the same place.

  • simon

    Oh Well… ask a silly question…

  • Tonto (USA)

      What I’m waiting for now is to see if European countries will continue to bow in the direction of mecca or at some point, react in disgust and rejection of the muz bullshit they seem to be guzzling at a furious rate.  In the US, the muz numbers are very small, almost miniscule.  The ones I’m familiar with are circumspect in their stupidities.  Lots of ‘rabs have had “attitude adjustments” that they didn’t like too much here in the US.  I worked with many arab muzleems in a Ford factory in Michigan.  Debbie Schlussel, in the Detroit area, has regularly exposed their little dirty tricks.  The mooks have threatened her and cussed her out many times.  She stays in their asses though.  Brave broad.  The muz keep testing the extent of tolerance all the time.  They’ve been caught out many times and had their patties smacked but they keep pushing the limits.  Some of them are just plain nuts!  They keep trying to get away with whatever they can though.  Scams galore!

  • Joan

    The Muslim numbers here in the UK were once very small, there are videos on you tube called 
     ” Muslim extremists in the UK ”
    you will see from those videos that the programme or agenda is for each of their wives to have 8 or 10 children and so outnumber us that way, i put it to you that Muslims have the same agenda in the USA, each male Muslim has 4 or so wives averaging that number so making an average of 32 children at least, then the males born have that nuber each, how long will you be in the majority ? The average American has how many children, as the average non muslim in the UK ? 2 or maybe 3 on average.
    By the time your grandchildren grow up and are old enough to join in these debates they will be fighting for survival in their own land. Your land. They will watch us here in the UK and maybe see what will come their way, but come it will.

    Joan

  • CM

    Chris-

    Correction: extreme Muslims want to kill us. Moderate Muslims want to hang out with their non-Muslim friends and drink beer.

  • CM

    simon-

    You crack me up. ”meeting together in a moslemey sort of way to do some moslemey things we don’t like… even though all of you like it and aren’t going to complain.” Classic. I think they should be deported on the grounds of not liking dogs — period!

  • Tonto (USA)

    Speaking of dogs, at a college here in the US, a somali muz puke threatened a crippled individual’s helper dog and actually got away with it.  My question is: Why isn’t that somali puke’s “home made brillo pad” hanging on a coup stick?”

  • CM

    Let them get together and solve their domestic disputes under the code of the flying spaghetti monster for all I care. As long as it refrains from including:

    forced marriage
    honour killings
    wife beating
    bomb building

    not liking dogs

    As simon mentioned.

    Simon, are you guys really not allowed to deport radicals to their own countries?

  • CM

    “if a Scottish woman, moves to london, and becomes a moslem, where do you re patirate her to? Scotland?”

    LOL.

    ANSWER, PEOPLE, ANSWER!

  • Kal

    CM,

    Extreme muslims want to kill us, moderate muslims stand by and do nothing, deflecting criticism of jihadist muslims by calling it racist and hate speech. The people you (and I as well) drink with are apostates, muslim on paper only.

  • CM

    Kal-

    They aren’t apostates until they fully leave Islam. Many of these beer-drinking Muslims still prefer to call themselves Muslims — they still fast during Ramadan, and wear a veil if back in the home country. When I use the term moderate Muslim, these are the folks I have in mind. The ones that stand by and do nothing, beer-drinking or not, I would call hypocrites and yes, also part of the problem.

  • Joan

    CM,
    I have already answered that question and as you see it did not go down very well.
    Your question about can we deport, if you look up
     Muslim extremists in the UK
    On the you Tube you will see what we have to put up with

    Joan

    Is my cat safe i wonder ?
     

  • Chris

    We all see Muslim across the world slowly imposing Islam on non-Muslim countries.

    Yet I have not seen one rally by “moderate” Muslims against the Muslims who want to force us to live under Islamic rule.
  • Joan

    You will not see that in the UK.
    All muslims support the radicals and believe they are in the right.
    In addition to that in a recent survey conducted by the Guardian newspaper  revealed 78% of those who took part revealed they wanted an end to immigration open door policy, on terror fears was their reason

    Joan

  • Chris

    Another friend of mine from the UK had a problem logging in here. But he asked me to post this for him.

    From Horsa,
      Has anyone seen or has experienced first hand the heatache, grief, or sorrow, harm and the damage that the followers of Islam can do to a nation, or know anything about the terror and fear that is put into the hearts of those under the yoke of Islamic power?

    If not, how can you possibly say that these small changes here, the tiny concessions there don’t mean much?

    Without realising it, this is nothing less than Islamification in slow motion, and before you even know it, the British way of life will have gone forever, as turning back will hereld in Powells prediction of rivers of blood.

    Britian is what it is today, because of its wonderful ability to adopt as its own the good that comes to these shores, after all who does not love a good curry. Note the word adopt, not conceed, or change for fear of offending, it is adopt because it is something good that will add to the richness of Britian.

    To see what Islam can give to a nation, look at what happened in Iran, or Afghanistan, and ask yourself is that what you want to happen here.

    I want people from far off lands to come here, but leave your cultures and religions at the door, but by all means, show off something you may think we would like, and if it is good, you bet it will be ours before you know it. But don’t expect us to change or do what you want, go some place else.

    We need to preserve our way of life, we cannot afford to let it errode any further.

    Islam comes from the deserts of Arabia, let it stay there, it does not belong in the green and pleasant Isles of Britian.

  • CM

    Aside from allowing Muslim police officers to swear on the Qur’an instead of the Bible or secularism (I don’t see anything alarming about this one), or allowing Muslims to settle domestic disputes by their own community rules (still reading up on what this one might mean for the UK) in what other ways has the UK changed because of Muslim immigration?

    Asking because I want to get a better understanding of what is going on there. Have any overt forms of oppression or intimidation occurred and gone unpunished?

  • Royd

    Jesus said, “Father forgive them, for they know not what they do“, the suicidal policies of political correctness and multiculturalism has made the grave error of allowing the establishment of Sharia Courts in this country, and is a prime example of “they know not what they do”, but don’t expect any forgiveness from Islam for being so stupid.

    In Britain we pride ourselves for our give and take tolerance in life, but when it comes to Islam, there is no give, it is all take, and no tolerance, if you don’t believe me, ask yourself when was the last pub you saw in Mecca.

    Those who allowed this to happen should be ashamed of themselves for allowing women to be reduced to second class citizens.

    One wonders what stupidity will be next !!!

  • Kal

    Royd,
    No offense meant to those Britons with their heads not buried in their arses, but I am certain the Dhimmis in power will come up with something even more outrageously suicidal for Great Britain. Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

  • ender

    such wonderful people:
    Besides their well-known penchant for anti-Semitism, misogyny and nihilistic violence, Muslim extremists are also gaining a disturbing reputation among British security agencies as collectors of child pornography.
    According to a report on The Times website last week, police in Great Britain are discovering that their investigations into Muslim terrorism are leading them into the depraved world of child sexual exploitation. The reverse is also occurring with child protection officers encountering people who are “preparing to carry out terrorist acts.”
    At one time, the link between the two deviant behaviours was considered so strong that security officials considered establishing an anti-terrorism project involving child welfare experts, but never followed through because Scotland Yard’s hands were too full with other terrorist investigations.

  • CM

    “there is no give, it is all take, and no tolerance.” —  I agree. This fact is pretty upsetting.

  • Chris

    Kal,

     Royd and Joan are part of the solution as you are.
  • Kal

    Chris,

    No doubt. I was talking about the elite socialists peddling islam to the Britons as the next best thing.

  • Chris

    Kal,

      Thats cool, I was just introducing you to some of my British friends. I have to go for a little while, can you please make sure that Royds posts get published, he said that he had to wait for moderator approval. (That is if you will be here, of course.) 
    Thanks,
    Chris.
  • CM

    Would everyone else here agree that there should be a law stating any UK national who converts to Islam should be deported to Saudi Arabia?

  • Joan

    I said that a few comments up and i stand by it. To take Islamic faith is to state you are no longer British.

    Joan

  • Kal

    Chris,

    I am here for another 6 hours, I’ll take care of it.

    Joan,

    Amen

  • CM

    Joan and Chris-

    “Would Muslims agree to go to same sex schools and attend gym lessons with boys ?”

    That would be one way, I think, of separating the “good” Muslims from the “bad” (no meaning to the quotation marks, just randomly decided to put them there). That, and rounding up anyone who preaches hate/violence against the state and its laws, anyone who sympathizes with hate/violence against the state and its laws, and whoever breaks state law on grounds of religion. I would be in support of deportation only in those cases, and not on grounds of simply having answered “yes” to the question of “are you a Muslim?” Like Simon, I don’t believe in the idea that *every* Muslim wants to do me harm, or would be in support of those who want to do me harm.

  • jennyjen

    I would have to support the deportation proposal. Determining Good and Bad Muslims would be way too tricky, it would have to be ran alot like a parole hearing I think.

  • Royd

     
    Before anything else is done, we must first ask ourselves some fundamental questions, first of all, IS BRITAIN A SECULAR STATE?
    If being a secular state means keeping religion out of public life and out of education then quite clearly Britain must NOT allow the establishment of parallel religious based courts, regardless of how minor the cases they might handle are, and especially if they are Sharia Courts, which by their very nature contravene all this nations equal rights laws.
    The law of this land is British, not Sharia Law.
    http://www.britishlaw.org.uk/
    Those who see no problem with the establishment of these courts, ought to familiarise themselves with the problems religions have caused this nation in the past. Next time it won’t be a Bloody Mary, it will be a Bloody Maryiam.
    We don’t do religion here, let’s keep it that way.
     

  • simon

    … britain is a secular state for sure.

    If  a moslem family invite an imam to have a chat about there daughter having a boyfriend, round a cup of tea at home…. you can’t really make that illegal.

    I don’t agree with the moslem ideology on any level. But you can’t make people meeting together for a chat illegal. And at a very basic level that’s what a so called sharia court is.

    It’s on a very simple level three moslems having a chat. How can you make that illegal.

    As for the deportation argument, are you suggesting that the army and police are used to round up hundreds of thousands of moslems, drag them out of their homes and send them where?… what about the scottish woman where are you going to send her… she is british.

    … we do have a problem I agree, but having another holocaust, where people are dragged into the streets might work in the states… but it definitely wouldn’t work here. 

  • Chris

    Thanks Kal,

    CM, what if they do not want to attend those schools? Where are the Muslim protests against the other Muslims who want to impose Sharia on us?
    Simon,
      The first thing that should be done is not to allow anymore of them to come there and then lock up or deport the preachers of hate. It amazes me that there are Muslims walking around in the UK saying that they are at war with the UK and they do not arrested. They should be charged with treason and this will send a message of  who has the power there. Also all Mosque construction should be ended, they have more then enough of them and they are used a sign of dominance, that is why they want so many of them. Also to attract converts.
  • simon

    chris, yes i agree with everything you say.

    I also think the moslems aready here should be integrated. that means no faith schools 

  • Chris

    Simon,

       If you noticed Muslims invite people into their Mosques but they do not go into the Churches for interfaith talks. 
    Right. if they do not like the rules they can always move to an Islamic country. But the welfare you guys give out is a magnet.
  • simon

    … yes that might be true

  • Joan

    I know from my own daughter’s schoolday’s at a single sex C OF E school where some Muslim girls did attend, that they did unfortunately see fit to segregate themselves at ALL times from the other girls, not to attend any social functions, outings and the normal activities that children do together while at school, sleepovers were banned as most of the girls had either a brother or a father in the house.
    swimming in mixed pools was off the agenda, it is fair to say that a lot of both girls and parents put a lot of effort into making those girls feel welcome and included, their answer was to sit together and should a white British child attempt to join them in the canteen they would pick up their belongings and find somewhere else to sit.
    On one occasion i was told by one of them that if  she ever came across my daughter in the street after they had left school then she would have to walk past her in the street as she would not be allowed to speak or look at a non believer.
    Of course the Muslim girls never attended prayers or assembly and never went into the Cathedral for prize night.
    It is not in particular US who do not want intergration the Muslims would never accept such.
    In the 60′s we were warned of the day that is undoubtedly coming by Enoch Powell, he said that there will be blood on the streets and in the end i fear he will be proved right.
    Repatriation is the only way. Britain is being made Muslim day by day and while people make feeble cases for Muslim’s right to stay in a land that is so alien to them, and while such silly cases are made the Islamification of my land rolls on, to cries of the glib liberals who really are just anti establishment communists.
    I have at no time mentioned or inferred i wish to see a  nazi style round up and solution to the Muslim problem, i maintain my stance of repatriation of all Muslims, to their own lands in one piece and good order. There is no way of seperating good from bad in this situation.
    The Muslims that were born here should be returned to the land of their father’s.
    Muslims by their own mouths have declared war, you only have to get on You Tube to see this, in that case they are by there own speaking the enemy and should be deported.
    If we went to saudi Arabia and started preaching hate against Islam in all probability we would be headless in no time at all, that goes for most Muslim lands.
    I stand by everything i have said, i am as entitled to my view as everyone else is. I am a born British person and that is my view, too many of my fellow countrymen are silenced by the race card, i however will never be.

    Joan

  • Joan

    Did anyone see the Park Lane Mosque that was exposed on TV a month or so ago, there was hate preaching in the Mosque itself, and in addition some of the teachers held classes in private houses with just three or so members present, coffee and refreashments included in the religious study indeed.
    Discussing such things as was unbelievable in such a small ladies gathering.
    As i say there is no way of telling and no limit on the number, it is stupid to say that a gathering of 2 or 3 is innocent. There is no doubt in my mind that a gathering of 3 could be hatching a very serious threat.
    It cannot be stopped as said, but the only answer is to repatrate those Muslims, not stop gatherings.

    Joan

  • jennyjen

    Joan, I haven’t heard about the park lane mosque? What were those mussies up too? Your previous post about the school is great reading, glad to know they are keeping themselves out of group activity instead of being held out like a liberal would have us believe. Such snobs haha!

  • simon

    The park lane mosque has been big news. Abu hamzer the hook handed cleric preached there. A recent documentary recorded some terrifying views expressed by preachers there.

    The police unbelievably tried to ban the documentary (?) believing some crime would be commited by airing it.

    This i have to admit is an example of the liberal ethic gone mad.

    the courts found that the programme makers had acted properly and were not mis representing the moslems views… and the programme was aired. And it was pretty frightening stuff.

    I hope it wakes a few people up to what is going on in our midst 

  • Joan

    Jenny,
    Go to You Tube and look up the following

    “undercover Mosque the return ”

    The TV programme is in 5 parts. Watch and learn what is going on in the Uk THEN COME BACK AND TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK.

    Joan

  • Chris
  • Joan

    Thank you chris

  • Chris

    Yes Joan of Ark.

  • jonah

    When belief in "La ilaha illa Allah" penetrates into the deep recesses of the heart, it also penetrates through the whole system of life, which is a practical interpretation of this faith. By this means, those who believe are already pleased with the system which this faith uniquely determines and submit in principle to all the laws and injunctions and details even before they are declared. Indeed, the spirit of submission is the first requirement of the faith. Through this spirit of submission the believers learn the Islamic regulations and laws with eagerness and pleasure. As soon as a command is given, the heads 32

    are bowed, and nothing more is required for its implementation except to hear it. In this manner, drinking was forbidden, usury was prohibited, and gambling was proscribed, and all the habits of the Days of Ignorance were abolished-abolished by a few verses of the Qur'an or by a few words from the lips of the Prophet- peace be on him. Compare this with the efforts of secular governments. At every stage they have to rely on legislation, administrative institutions, police and military power, propaganda and the press, and yet they can at most control what is done publicly, and society remains full of illegal and forbidden things. [ Refer to Fi Thilal al-Qur'an (In the Shade of the Qur'an), Vol. 5, pp. 78-85, to see how God forbade the drinking of alcohol. Then refer to Sayed Abul Hasan Ali Nadvi's book, The Loss to the World Due to the Decline of Muslims, quoting Abul 'Ala Maududi's Tanqihat to see how the United States failed in its efforts to prohibit alcohol.]

  • jonah

    Another aspect of this religion ought to be considered. This is a practical religion; it has come to order the practical affairs of life. Thus it faces the question of practical conditions and determines whether to keep them, modify them or change them completely. Its legislation is therefore concerned only with those conditions which actually exist in that particular society which has already accepted the sovereignty of God.

    Islam is not a 'theory' based on 'assumptions;' rather it is a way of life' working with 'actuality,' Thus it is first necessary that a Muslim community come into existence which believes that "There is no deity except God," which commits itself to obey none but God, denying all other authority, and which challenges the legality of any law which is not based on this belief.

    Only when such a society comes into being, faces various practical problems, and needs a system of law, then Islam initiates the constitution of law and injunctions, rules and regulations. It addresses only those people who in principle have already submitted themselves to its authority and have repudiated all other rules and regulations.

    It is necessary that the believers in this faith be autonomous and have power in their own society, so that they may be able to implement this system and give currency to all its laws. Moreover, power is also needed to legislate laws according to the needs of the group as these present themselves in its day-to-day affairs.

    In Mecca the Muslims were not autonomous, nor did they have any influence in the society. Their practical life had not taken a permanent form so that they could have organized themselves according to the Divine Law (al-Shari'ah); hence no regulations and laws were revealed to them by God. They were taught only belief and those moral principles which follow from this belief after it penetrates the mind. Later, when an autonomous state came into existence in Medina, general laws were revealed and that system came into existence which satisfies the needs of a Muslim community, and the power of the state was behind its enforcement.

    God Most High did not desire that all laws and regulations be revealed during the Meccan period so that Muslims would have a ready-made system to be applied as soon as they reached Medina; this is out of character for this religion. Islam is more practical than this and has more foresight; it does not find solution to hypothetical problems. It first looks at the prevailing conditions, and if it finds a viable society which, according to its form, conditions or temperament, is a Muslim society, which has submitted itself to the law of God and is weary of laws emanating from other sources, then indeed this religion provides a method for the legislation of laws according to the needs of such a society.

    People who demand from Islam that it provide theories, and that it provide a completed constitution for its system, and that it provide laws, while they observe that there is not a single society on earth which has rejected man-made systems and agreed to enforce the Shari'ah, in addition to having political power for such enforcement, show that they are ignorant of the character of this religion and the way it operates in life. They are also ignorant of the purpose for which God revealed His religion.

    What these people want is that Islam change its character, its method and its history and be reduced to the level of ordinary human theories and laws. They want a short-cut solution to satisfy their immediate desires, which are simply a product of the defeatist mentality in their spirits in the face of valueless, man-made laws. They want Islam to become a mere collection of abstractions and theories, the subject of whose application is non-existent conditions. But the course prescribed by God for this religion is the same as it was earlier. First, belief ought to be imprinted on hearts and rule over consciences – that belief which demands that people should not bow before anyone except God or derive laws from any other source. Then, when such a group of people is ready and also gains practical control of society, various laws will be legislated according to the practical needs of that society.

    This is what God has intended for this religion. It cannot be other than what God intends, no matter what people desire.

  • Joan

    "La ilaha illa Allah"

    This really gives a good picture of what i have said about the need for a command of English.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/JevyJev JevyJev

    If something isn't done soon in the UK Nazi style round ups might be a possibility, and it won't be the police that start it but they will be the ones to finish it. History likes to repeat itself!

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