Egypt: 97% of married women undergo genital mutilation

I feel sorry for Egyptian women. They must be the most repressed of all Muslim women. Up to 90% of them have their clits removed through circumcision to prevent them from turning into sexual deviants. There goes a lifetime of sexual problems when they get married. On top of that, they get constantly harassed by their men on the streets day and night.. They have no rights whatsoever. I went to Egypt last year & never again. I have never come across a more perverted group of men in my whole entire life. It beggars belief the way some of these Muslim women will defend a faith that oppresses them so much

The truth: Sad that you had that experience in Egypt I went there and I loved it, regardless of the way the men act there – I met some very respectful men there too…and I thought Dubai had more perverted men! I guess I just knew how to deal with perverted men and how to stop them from hooting etc.

About the article, that is so sad I feel utterly disgusted every time I hear about it, and feel anger towards people who condone female genital mutilation

Yet you have no problem with Male genital mutilation? Do you really think men would willingly have 60% of the nerves destroyed when the foreskin is removed? Grow up.

60%??????? Do you just pick these figures out of a hat? Clearly you do. What utter tosh! Do you honest-to-God believe that removal of the foreskin is akin to that of the clitoris? Verily, you have much to learn about the female anatomy, but as you grow up enlightenment will surely come. For your information, oh wise anatomist, removal of the glans penis is the male equivalent of clitoridectomy. Crossing your legs, are you?

Further to that which I just wrote, why, other than for religious observance, is circumcision of male infants practised? For claimed health benefits. Why do Muslims chop off the most sensitive part of a girl's anatomy? For health benefits? Yeah, and Mohammed was a member of the Salvation Army.

FGM is without doubt the filthiest example of perversion within the perverse pantheon of Islam.

FGM is without doubt the filthiest example of perversion within the perverse pantheon of Islam.

i live in Egypt and i'm a Muslim woman and married. the Islamic circumcision is not a mutilation, for God's sake!

read this: http://logicofislam.webs.com/femalecircumcision…

hope this stops the ignorance of the people, Ameen Oh Lord!

I should have known better than to open a link titled “logicofislam”. The “doctor” quoted in this article claims that FGM is not prescribed without reason. Clearly the most compelling argument in favor of butchering little girls is that the clitoris can be “very annoying to the husband, especially at the time of intercourse”.

You make me sick…

i'm sorry Christine, but maybe you missed the part saying “the clitoris itself is not cut, only the foreskin”.
it's annoying for the husband just as much it is annoying for the wife that the husband has his foreskin intact as well. it's a matter of hygiene. if you want your liquids to remain where they should be cleaned not to cause infections, then the matter is with you. and still, it's not obligatory in Islam for a woman to do circumcision as stated by the scholars. i had many infection problems before, even though, as a Muslim, i clean myself with water every time i go to the bathroom. also, i'm a westerner, i'm Portuguese (converted from Christianity to Islam), so that you don't think i'm brainwashed by this ideology, i made a lot of research and i talked to many people regarding this subject, including women that went through circumcision. i was born in Portugal and after, i went to Angola, living there almost 10 years, then, i went to Portugal again for 8 years and now i'm in Egypt for 5 months. i think i have the suficient experience and research to know what kind of circumcision goes on here and if it causes damage or not.

Also, in Angola i know the matter is different. The head of the private part of the male is actually cut, such as all the clitoris, in the case of women. Maybe you should start from there, a country where the majority of people is actually christian and, because of some pagan practices, are ignorant.

Also, i should note here that in some parts of Egypt, actually, the circumcision is not done properly. Of course, i want to make some effort to educate those people about the Islamic way of circumcising. Since they still practice the ancient egyptian mutilation of the genitals which is not permitted in Islam.

Let's note another thing: when Islam has something about a subject, if the Muslims do another thing, it's not because of Islam, it's because of ignorance the Muslims have about their religion.

Peace

You are misinformed oh safyiah.There's a detailed descriptionn of this filthy practice in Ayan Hirsi Ali's book “Infidel”.
Some of these amateur butchers excise only the clitoris but some of the mad bastards slice off the labia majora as well and then suture up the whole vaginal orifice.
Even someone who's used to cutting through human tissue like me feels a sense of nausea at the thought of it.
Oh what a delicate culture is Islam.

it's funny how people get information about a religion on novel books instead of being in contact with Muslims and taking the information from the sources of Islam.
it's you who is misinformed. First, there's no word in Islam for “infidel”. that is a christian word from the crusaders. Second, “kuffar” or “kafir” refers to “non-believers in Islam”, not “infidels”. Third, those ways of practicing mutilation in African countries are not Islamic, they are pagan, as i had stated in my previous comment.
as if a non-Muslim can know more about Islam… Oh what an intelligent culture is yours.

Peace

I'm simply quoting from a book of a former Muslim who has had this piece of abominable savagery carried out on herself as a young girl.
It would seem that due to your conversion to the world's favourite death cult this is an item of culture that you have been lucky enough to avoid.
If perchance you have a daughter that you submit to this piece of barbarism;then it should be incumbent upon you
to have it done at the same time??as an example of your brainless piety!
Well have you had it done?
I think we should be told;otherwise you stand as a hypocrite.

I'd be surprised if Robert B was a consultant neurologist Beej!
But I haven't got your optimism with respect to his personal enlightenment.
People like this never(or rarely) become enlightened as their stupidity is at a pathological level.

i'll post this by topics:

- “Muslim” doesn't mean “Islam”. Even if you prove to me that she REALLY was a Muslim (because that book was proved to be a hoax and simply a novel, because that's what people want, drama), you can't say Islam is in accordance with what she went through.

- I didn't have it done because i have a lot of infections like i had stated in the previous comment. if i had it done when i was a baby, i wouldn't have these. if i have the chance to do it without risks, i'll do it. But i said also that i talked to women that did it, like my husband's 3 older sisters. They are fine and they actually encourage it to be done in the proper islamic manner, which is not to remove any part of the clitoris itself, but the foreskin.

- My husband had his circumcision done when he was 7, he did it in a hospital with hygiene measures, just like any person that wants to undergo any other kind of surgery. It's not in cold blood or painful as you may think or as some ignorant people may do, anesthetics exist for a reason and long time ago there were herbs used as an anesthetic (which are used for anesthetics nowadays in chemistry laboratories). Although my husband said his parents should have gone with him to do this when he was younger than that.

- The point i'm trying to make clear to people here is that Islam doesn't encourage mutilation, that actually is forbidden in Islam. Circumcision is different from mutilation. Check the dictionary if you want to know more.
Also, what Muslims do is not to be taken as “divine deeds”. Just like what Christians do is not to be taken as what Jesus (as) did.
To be fair, search the ruling in the religion and only then comment about it. If you go by novels, oh boy, you won't ever learn anything useful.

- To your claim of me being hypocrite because i simply didn't go through circumcision:
I actually had a lot of time to research about this matter before actually beccoming a Muslim. i spent 2 years in this and asking sheikhs about it and the rulings of scholars and the proof in Islam (Qur'an and Sunnah). There are few proof for it in the Sunnah, that's why it's not made obligatory upon women. But there's strict proof for the circumcision of men.

- Pagan rituals are not part of Islam, Places like Ethiopia, Angola, etc. Have a lot of african pagan rituals, including cuting of ears, bracelets fitting on cuts of the mouth, and the total cut of women's clitoris, etc. Which is totally forbidden in Islam and would go under the ruling of changing God's creation when He didn't command it to be done.

Peace

Islam is open to interpretation just like any religion that's based on a “holy” book. That's why Islam has sects, just like any other “major” religion, Sunni and Shia, just to mention the two major ones. There is such a word as infidel, it's actually a Christian word, but Kafir, although it means “cover”, picked up the conotation of meaning infidel because it came to be used that way. “”Kafir” has also come to be regarded as offensive,[11] thus Muslim scholars discourage its use due to the Quran's command to use kind words.”

“(because that book was proved to be a hoax and simply a novel, because that's what people want, drama),” If you're going to make claims like that, you should be prepared to back them up, can you prove this?

The personal experiences of you and your husband are interesting, but they don't change the results of this study, which was done by an agency of the Egyptian govt and a UN agency. If you have a problem with the study, you should take it up with them. If you have a problem with our comments about it, you are free to express yours, which you've done. Other than your personal experiences and opinions, your arguments don't carry much weight. And like I said, your personal experiences and opinions don't affect the results of the study.

“…and would go under the ruling of changing God's creation when He didn't command it to be done.”

Weren't Kenneth Bigley and Daniel Pearl's SEVERED HEADS also “God's creation” ?

Your brothers beheaded them both in the NAME OF ISLAM, shouting “Allah Akhbar” and brandishing your
miserable death manual, the infamous Qur'anus.
Explain that.

i repeat: Islam is not necessarily what Muslims do. If you still think it is, then, keep it up in your ignorance.

Sunni and Shi'a are not sects because of interpretation, but because of extremes in side of people that loved the family of the Prophet (sws) more and the people that were actually His companions. Both are extremes.

Islam is clear, you just have to search about it and not the actions of Muslims. Because even some Christians steal, are all Christians thiefs? By your logic, yes. But we know it's not true.

It's funny how people like to base their knowledge on the news and novels. Instead of looking for the sources.

Israelis are killing thousands of palestinians: including Muslims and Christians and even atheists.
Are they doing good? Yeah, because the Torah says it's good to treat people that are not jews as subhumans, but we see all the world treating jews kindly because, poor things, suffered in the holocaust. The holocaust is past, we are in the present and they are terrorizing other people. More than half of the jews now don't know what the holocaust was and didn't suffer from it, so they can't tell the pain Palestinians are going through.
Poor jews and death to Muslims!
It's really funny the double standards of society nowadays.

another thing: the Egyptian government is no example for anyone. if you are taking things from that government, most probably it's fake. just like their elections. they want to copy America which is the country with the highest crime rate in the whole planet. they are helping in killing Palestinians aswell. if you think a government like that is good and you can trust it, then you have a problem.

Since FGM is apparently not obligatory amongst Muslims why bother with it in the first place?
If you knew anything at all about anatomy you'd know that removing the overlying skin of the clitoris would result in bleeding connective tissue which would on healing leave a scarred deformation of its original form with serious damage to the nerve endings resulting in serious loss of sensitivity.
Whether one believes in a creator or not that represents a perverse defilement of the human body.
Male circumcision is simply the removal of the penile prepuce which causes no real harm at all;except to say that is also unnecessary in 99% of cases.
What I can't understand is why anyone from a developed culture like Portugal would want to embrace the mores and culture of an alien, primitive,totalitarian,supremacist,evil fascist cult like Islam?
Do you ever talk to your image in the mirror and ask yourself”Am I an idiot?”
You have exchanged freedom for slavery.
It would seem you have a masochistic streak ;which is perverse in itself.
Have you ever argued your early superior culture with your husband(I bet you haven't?);because he is of the unshakeable robotic opinion that
Islam that despite a plethora of evidence to the contrary is the way of the righteous.
But Stalin, Pol Pot,and other monsters of history were of the opinion that they were right.
Mohammed(your faux prophet) was a similar monster;and you accept that nonsense like a bleating sheep.
But as they say you have made your bed and there thou shalt lie.
Just think that great Portuguese like Ferdinand Magellan and Henry the navigator were far superior intellects
than that illiterate fleabag you revere as a prophet.

” Because even some Christians steal “

Do they steal in the name of Christ ?
Nope.

Berard Madoff stole billions of Dollars but…
DID HE DO IT IN THE NAME OF GOD?
Nope. It was just old and plain greed.

Do muslims kill in the name of Allah ?
YES.

That's the difference.
That's why I blame Islam for 99% of ALL terrorism that happened through the last 25 years .

I can PROVE what I say.
You can't prove the lies you're burping.

” Israelis are killing thousands of palestinians “

What is a “palestinian” ?

” The holocaust is past “

No, it isn't. It was like yesterday to my family.

“More than half of the jews now don't know what the holocaust was “

You are an IMBECILE.

Your world view is clearly naive Safiyah ;if you believe that life in the West is as bleak as you describe then your mental state is one of rationalisation of the silly mistake of embracing their primitive barbaric culture in which you find yourself.
Islam good!baa baa The Kufr bad bad.
Has it never occurred to you that the relatively sophisticated West has nothing to apologise for?
It's only the whining whingeing bleatings of the turd world that support your indefensible position of hopeless protest.
Perhaps your immersion in the abomination of Islam has damaged your ability to think logically;but that state of mind is pathognomic of Islamic mental pathology!

Safyiah, you are an IMBECILE. You don't have an I.Q high enough to participate
in this blog. It's clearly out of your league.

i should have known better in commenting in a blog of atheists, jews and ignorant people. you guys just care about making your point of view clear instead of really searching for what's true and to search from the sources that actually should be seen as reliable when judging a religion (TV, newspaper, what others say or write is not acceptable when judging a religion).
removing the foresking doesn't provoke any damage, it's properly taken care of in a hospital with the needed hygiene and important measures.
people also should know that in a debate, we should be civilized, not insulting people. because that's a weakness when someone wants to make their point of view known and offend the adversary part.

i won't answer to any more comments when it's clear you don't want to debate in a civilized manner and you insult me directly when there is no need to do so, since you don't know my life and what i went through to become a Muslim.
the other way arround of people trying to actually apply the principles of the religion without harming anyone makes them a target of cruelty. if only the non-Muslims knew what some converts have to go through… some of them are even taken out of their homes and beaten, others are put in a hospital, others actually even face death here in Egypt, since the Christians here are severe when someone converts to Islam, but we don't see these news going out of Egypt, which i find funny.
my husband and his family met a lady in a hospital that had been shot by her own brother and her husband was murdered in front of her in the streets. here, Christians even believe that raping Muslim girls is a good thing to do because “Islam is a false religion” as they say.

so much to learn… things that aren't in books or on the media. live it for yourself. be in a Muslim's shoes for a while. stop saying “this one says this, this one says that”. have a fundamented opinion by yourself if you want to be fair.

Peace and guidance to all, ameen

First of all, you weren't invited to crash in here to burp your islamic taqyiah. Your attempts to deceive
folks in here are gonna be fruitless, for we are vaccinated against your disease.

Your mission FAILED.

When you come back under a different nickname, I will be here to debunk your mental farts that
you call thoughts.

i wasn't deceiving anyone. i just said what i had to say in defense of the majority of Muslims that don't even do what you say they do. there's so many stories of suicide and rape out there and never is the label of “the Christian did this and the Christian did that” or “the Jew did this or the Jew did that”. it's only people that are so-called Muslims who are labelled with their “religion”. and also it's not logical that someone does something in the name of Islam or Allah when it's totally forbidden in Islam by Allah. it's a contradiction and only a trial to justificate their dirty and stupid acts. if only people would open their eyes and see the difference between Muslims and Islam. there's a huge difference, unfortunately. but also there are many Muslims trying to delete that difference. what you see are isolated news that most probably don't happen everyday. i live here in Egypt and i see news in CNN. mostly they distort news or they don't show the full picture. just like in the West they do with Israelis. here we can see ALL the damage and loss of life. but in the West, it's just 10%, if not less.

missions are for Christians, i just spread the message. if anyone accepts and searches for the truth, good for them. if not, whatever, i'm not going to persecute them like the Christian soldiers and generals would do and give them the Bible to read.

i wasn't invited to give my opinion just like you weren't invited to answer or read my comments. you did because you wanted and you had the freedom to do it, just like me.

it's good to know that you're vaccinated, i wouldn't like to catch rabies.

Peace

I read your posts with interest. From all you say I expect you to join with the rest of us in damning the frequent monstrous actions of Muslims throughout the world. Not doing as they do is not good enough. If you are sincere in what you write you will actively condemn such people. For example, what do you think of the guy who labelled Jews as bacteria?

Yes, we have a problem with any government that tries to end an ignorant, barbaric practice that harms 50% of the population in a country that can't defend itself. The problem is we support their efforts in this kind of effort, despite what we might think of them otherwise, because we recognize when something good is being done. I beg to differ with your perception that America has the highest crime rate on the planet: http://www.nationmaster.com/article/Crime-Rates…

The “Palestinians” bring death upon themselves by allowing terrorists to attack Israel from their land, particularly the Gaza strip. The Egyptian government sees that, and is trying to cut off the supply of weapons to Gaza that allow that to continue. It's too bad you're the one that can't see the truth.

I admit, I'm not familiar with the Torah, would you care to enlighten me to where it “says it's good to treat people that are not jews as subhumans”? In the meantime, I wonder if you are one of those Muslims that claims there is only one God? That Jehovah and Allah are the same God? If so, why did “God” say something like that in the Torah, then turn around and have Mohammed start a brand new religion that is trying so hard to destroy the Jews today?

Again, you should be prepared to support claims like “More than half of the jews now don't know what the holocaust was”. Can you prove that? I've seen many Muslims claim the Holocaust never happened, are you one of them? Do you really believe that the memory of the Holocaust doesn't haunt many Jews today? That they don't fear that it could happen again? Especially when they see how much anti-Semitism exists today, and seems to be growing? When a country like Iran, whose leaders talk about wanting Israel destroyed, may be on the verge of obtaining nuclear weapons, and already has shown it has missles they could be placed on, that can reach Israel?
In trying to kill their enemies, more Muslims die in terrorist attacks than non-Muslims.

Yes, I find the double standards today funny too. Especially the ones where Muslims demand special treatment wherever they go because of the uniqueness and supposed superiority of their religion over any other.

Of course i join people that condemn monstruous acts like honour killings and the like. i just don't agree that people label those people as “devout Muslims” or “fundamentalists” because being fundamental in something is going by all its rules, and if Islam condemns those acts, how can they be “fundamentalists”? it makes no sense. they are people that try to justify their serious crimes with religion, which has no place in those acts. there's nothing in Qur'an and Sunnah that says Jews are bacteria. actually i think it's kind of hilarious that some people come up with those things just to insult someone. insulting is not part of the character of a true Muslim. we should be fair when dealing with people, just like it is in the Qur'an and how the Prophet (sws) told people to do. religion is widely taken for political and personal agendas and that's how things got to this point. me and my husband and any Muslim that goes by Islamic ruling condemns such hideous crimes like the killing of girls that don't want to wear hijab, but also, we condemn the crimes of sending converts to Islam to hospitals or beat them and expel them from their homes. it's a 2-way thing, we can't only see one side of the picture. also, i contribute actively telling that those people are wrong and they have serious mental problems. i contribute also defending my religion from being associated with those crimes.

Peace

In Islam, it's explicit in the Qur'an that the scriptures sent by God before were made as a test to the People of the Book (i.e. Jews and Christians), they fell in sin and corrupted the scriptures to fit their own desires.
I don't claim the holocaust didn't happen, but i find impossible someone that suffered in the holocaust killing families that just go have a picnic on the beach. if they feared that much, they wouldn't allow something like that to happen to others. Iran is Shi'a, i'm not associated with such people not even Sunni extremists. More civilians die in Israeli attacks than in attacks by Hamas. i see it on the news everyday. They shoot at a person and, even when that person is already dead, they go and see if he has a family, they go back and continue shooting to the body (the family is lucky not to die after that).

Muslims don't demand speacial treatment, they demand justice. Tell me which religion doesn't supposely have the idea of superiority. Jews think they are “the chosen people by God” and Christians think they are “the children of God”. there's a difference, in Islam, you have to repent to deserve Paradise, while in those religions, you supposely just have to be a Jew or a Christian.

Peace

…”killing families that just go have a picnic on the beach “

HAHAHAHA !!!

“Jews think they are “the chosen people by God”

It's written in the Bible. Each one is free to believe in it, or not.

“in Islam, you have to repent to deserve Paradise, while in those religions, you supposely just have to be a Jew or a Christian.”

In Islam only those who behead, rape and blow up the infidels are entitled to screw the 72 virgins in “paradise”.
In both Christianism and Judaism, only people who behaved well are able to go to Heaven.

let me make the definition of “martyr” in Islam well clear:

a martyr is someone that dies in the cause of Allah, which is only accepted in defense and not offense. so, those who claim that by dying and blowing themselves up they go to Paradise, most probably they won't.

Because:

first – in Islam suicide is forbidden.

second – in a deed, both the intention and the action have to be in accordance with Islam. if an intetion is not made pure to Allah and to make the right thing, if the action is only for fame, for example, it's not accepted by Allah, his deed is void. and if the intention if proper but the action is not in accordance with Islam, violating any of its rules, then his deed is also void.

third – it's not true what you say about Christians. many say and even give proof that only accepting Jesus (as) as their God and Saviour, you'll go to Heaven, since “supposely” your sins are forgiven since the day he (as) “died” for people's sins.

fourth – in Islam you have to repent for your sins for them to be expiated.

search before making those claims about Islam. your ideas are only based on the media and with what other people say. you should know that in this “perfect world” there are liars.

Also:

- rape in Islam is forbidden, and in Shariah, the rapist is actually put to death (which may not happen in so-called Muslim countries).

Peace

Ya binti, why do you lie so profusely?
Akh, 3alayki, let's see.
Awal shi, “condemn ” is a bullsh** term I keep hearing from Muslims. All they have to do is say they condemn something and it's all good. When someone insults the prophet, they're in a positive outrage, foaming at the mouth in the streets, trying to kill people. It happened everywhere, I've seen a few in my day. And I haven't seen protest one out of Muslims over honor killings, beheadings and genital mutilation. Let me explain something to you. If a sheikh runs an area, he RUNS that area. The dictatorships handle politics and nothing else. As long as Muslims promise to stay away from the actual government, they get big fat salaries and they are allowed to control anything they want. So Imam says beat, they say 'which one of your wives, sheikhna.' So sheikhs, mullahs and imams could have eradicated all of these social issues in Afghanistan, Egypt, Sudan, etc. But nary a finger is lifted, leaving us to wonder at how much Muslims really care about these serious problems. And Moe's Hadith and Quran are not the sole basis for Islam. The calipha added quite a bit, such as veiling and separate prayer rooms(The misogynist Umar's legacy). The fact is, the hadith and quran don't say much about these topics because they don't say much about anything. They're broken records about fighting and hating the kuffar. It seems like a crime is only a crime to a Muslim if a Westerner or an Israeli is involved.

Hala2, onto this 'these are just extremists who have hijacked our religion, business. Read your history. From day one, Muhammad was fairly certain he would not be buying into the whole 'lamb of God' business. He was a fighter. His descendants were fighters. The caliphs would always die because they would get their heads cut off by the guy who wanted the job. Call it Islamic democracy. Talk to these 'extremists' and you will learn that they are only this extreme because they fear Islam could be stamped out by the West. So they tighten their strangle-hold on Islamic societies, praying that the same thing doesn't happen to them that happened to the communists. They pray that Allah is not replaced by Jesus, or by Buddha or worse, no God at all. They pray that their daughters won't realize they can do what they want and marry who they want and no one can stop them. They pray that their sons won't have to strap on bombs and run into buildings anymore, because they learn about humanism and pacifism. But I don't think their prayers will be answered.

i'm not going to repeat what i have stated in most of my comments. Read it again and you'll see why.

Peace

be careful when you call someone a liar, you might be the one lying.

“When someone insults the prophet, they're in a positive outrage, foaming at the mouth in the streets, trying to kill people. It happened everywhere, I've seen a few in my day. And I haven't seen protest one out of Muslims over honor killings, beheadings and genital mutilation.”

here in Egypt they aren't even allowed to protest against the killing of their brothers and sisters in Palestine. and Egypt is not under Islamic law. Also, i don't know what true Muslims have to do with Muslims who do wrong. Just as i don't know what Christians have to do with what other Christians do bad and so on. Islam is clear once again about what's condemned and what's not. what we should do is educate those people as we can. on the streets and on the internet, like i'm doing with 3 blogs i own and commenting and talking with people here in Egypt.

“But nary a finger is lifted, leaving us to wonder at how much Muslims really care about these serious problems. And Moe's Hadith and Quran are not the sole basis for Islam.”

you're wrong, sheikhs here who dare to speak out against the government have to spend years in jail being tortured by the police that received orders of the called “secular government”. Also, Qur'an and Hadith ARE the basis of Islam. What others say can either be accepted or rejected. but when it comes to Qur'an and Hadiths, no way you can reject these.

“The calipha added quite a bit, such as veiling and separate prayer rooms(The misogynist Umar's legacy). The fact is, the hadith and quran don't say much about these topics because they don't say much about anything. They're broken records about fighting and hating the kuffar. It seems like a crime is only a crime to a Muslim if a Westerner or an Israeli is involved.”

i'm sorry, but any Muslim who studied Qur'an and knows Hadith actually know the proof in them for veiling. i wear niqaab for that reason. 'Umar was simply following Qur'an and Sunnah in those matters. Mixing places with women and men are not permissible, but sometimes we can't avoid it. so, places that are separate are a good solution. it's for some reason that the Prophet (sws) said market places are bad, because of the mixing.

obviously your opinion is that religion shouldn't exist, but keep in mind, it exists, learn to live with it. believers exist, and you can't do anything about it.

now, placing the word “Islam” in every act a Muslim does is simply not intelligent. read my last post in prepareforthehour blogspot com

maybe that post can make clear why the Qur'an doesn't say for us to kill all the unbelievers. and note the article is directed to non-Muslims and Muslims. because i recognize there's many Muslims that don't know their religion.

Peace

I'm not impressed with your lies. I've been through this before many times in this
blog.
Muslims in DENIAL MODE.

Nothing new.

Should you decide to tell the TRUTH, I'll answer your posts.

“be careful when you call someone a liar, you might be the one lying.”
Poetic turn of phrase
The corruption of the Egyptian government in the matter of Palestinians is their own choice. There's no law that made the Arabs treat the Palestinians like sh**, but still they felt the need.

That doesn't have to do with the religion though. I've explained bit already. When the ikhwan tried to take over government, they spent time in prisons because they were asking too much. The same happened with the leftists. That's because in any Arab dictatorship, you can't participate politically. But the al-azhar institute (remind me which country that's in) is located in Egypt. And the Muhammad cartoon controversies were started in Egypt. So there's a safe bet that religious figures are more than welcome to control anything they want outside of internal and foreign policy.
“Islam is clear once again about what's condemned and what's not.”
By no stretch of the imagination is the Qur'an clear on anything. The minute Muslims are shown a verse like the ones in Al-Nisa' or Al-Baqara that justify beating women and killing infidels, they clamor about 'poor interpretation'. If it's so vague and open to interpretation, how is it a religion?
We apply our own morality in the frame of religion.
The truth is, Islam's violent verses are a delight for people with a violent tendencies, because their behavior is finally justified. You're not a 'true' Muslim if you dodge the violent bits and misinterpret them on purpose. You're a person with a good state of conscious, which interferes with your ability to stomach Islam. And instead of realizing that the whole institution is corrupt, you sit and make apologies for these people that deserve none.

@ mazabdul

“The truth is, Islam's violent verses are a delight for people with a violent tendencies, because their behavior is finally justified. You're not a 'true' Muslim if you dodge the violent bits and misinterpret them on purpose. You're a person with a good state of conscious, which interferes with your ability to stomach Islam. And instead of realizing that the whole institution is corrupt, you sit and make apologies for these people that deserve none.”

ya salam…

well, this proves your ignorance. Qur'an, like other scriptures has historical interpretation. you can go to my blog to see it, as i stated in the previous comment. and that includes the explanation of the verses of supposed “violence”.
Also, the Qur'an has some verses that were explained by the Prophet (sws) himself, which is the Tafsir of the Prophet, that includes the explanation on “beating” women.

The prophet of Allah, Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him, tells us Allah has said,

“Before the creation of the universe, I forbid that I would oppress and I hate when anyone oppresses.”

Let us consider a very basic understanding of the advent of Islam and the reason for it to be revealed in the time and place where it came. Here is a brief, yet clear statement of purpose with the coming of Islam:

Treatment in Relationships – in Islam, it is all about treatment; how you treat your Lord; how you treat His messenger; how you treat yourself; how you treat your family; how you treat others; how you treat your enviornment – it is always about treatement.

We must keep in mind the condition of the people who were without the guidance of Almighty God and how they had strayed far away from the message that came with Adam, Abraham, Moses and other great prophets, peace be upon them all.

The ignorant and selfish mentality the prevailed throughout the Arab lands did not allow women even the most basic of rights and the treatment of women was abhorent. Women were being treated as property, even less than the status of livestock. They were offered in trade or taken in marriage without consent or consideration for their feelings at all. The customs of the people at the time were far away from anything we might imagine today.

Statements in the Quran pertaining to the treatment of the women came to improve their condition and to raise their status to a level of balance alongside of men. Islam came to change the hearts of the people and show them the proper way to worship Allah and to interact with each other.

Transliteration

Ar-rejalu qawwa muna 'alan-nisa'a bima fadhdhallahu ba'dhahum 'ala bi'dhi wa bima anfaqu min amwalihim. Fas-saliHatu qaintat HafaTHatul-lilghaybi bimaa HafiTHal-lahu, wal-lati takhafuna nushuza hunna fa'iTHuu hunna wa hjuruu hunna fiil-lmadha ji'i wadhribu hunna. Fa'in aTa'nakum flaa tabghuu 'alayhinna sabiilan. Innal-laha kaana 'aliyaan kabiira(n).

One Explanation (tafsir) given of this surahc (chapter 4:34) according to some scholars is:

“Men are the support of women as God gives some more means than others, and because they spend of their wealth (to provide for them). So women who are virtuous are obedient to God and guard the hidden as God has guarded it. As for women who are averse in behavior, talk to them suasively, leave them alone in bed and tap them (like a doctor would tap a patient – lightly), if they open out to you, do not seek an excuse for blaming them. Surely God is sublime and great.”

Meaning of the Words

For the three words fa'izu, wahjaru, and wadribu in the original, translated here 'talk to them suasively,' 'leave them alone (in bed – fi'l-madage'),' and tap lightly (percuss them), respectively,

Fa'izu (to use persuasive speech or admonishment)

Fa'izu, implies the first step should be to make clear to them using straight talk, the position they are in and what is required to comply with the teaching of Islam. This approach may be repeated until it is established she has understood and is willing to comply and come back into line with the proper expected of a Muslim woman.

Hajara – Wahjaru (do not touch or molest them)

Hajara, he says, means to separate body from body, and points out that the expression wahjaru hunna metaphorically means to refrain from touching or molesting them. Zamakhshari is more explicit in his Kshshaf when he says, 'do not get inside their blankets.'

Daraba (tap lightly as 'percuss', not to beat)

Daraba lightly tap them (women).' This view is strengthened by the Prophet's authentic hadith found in a number of authorities, including Bukhari and Muslim:

“Could any of you beat your wife as he would a slave, and then lie with her in the evening?”

There are other traditions in Abu Da'ud, Nasa'i, Ibn Majah, Ahmad bin Hanbal and others, to the effect that he forbade the beating of any woman, saying:

“Never beat God's handmaidens.”

Source:

Al-Quran: a contemporary translation by Ahmed Ali, Princeton University Press, 1988; pp78-79

In the past, some translators of this verse have mistakeningly used the word “beat” to represent the word “dhaaraba” in Arabic. This is not the opinion of all scholars and those who are well grounded in both Islam understanding and the English language.

Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend from their means (to support the women). Therefore the righteous women are devout and guard in the husband's absence what Allah orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property, etc.). As to those women on whose part you see ill­conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, go back to them (in intimacy), if they return to obedience and do not seek any means of annoyance against them. Certainly, Allah is Most High, Most Great.[Noble Quran 4:34]

Other translators have offered words such as, “tap” and “pat” to represent a physical type of admonisment. While definitely coming closer to what might be acceptable in many circles than such expressions as “hit” or “beat”, this still does not properly demonstrate the position and usage of such terms in relation to the first of the verse and the connection to the following passage, wherein the clear instructions deal with the women who do not come into compliance. Therefore, it likely be considered to mean: “tap lightly as a doctor would examine a patient”.

We understand from this some of the translations are not properly representing the spirit of the meaning. Therefore, they cannot be considered to be the representation of what has been intended by Almighty God.

also, what's the problem of liking poetry? is it forbidden?

Peace

One of the objections raised against Islam by the critics is on the verse:

“And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.” [At-Taubah, 9:5]

The allegation is that Qur'an says “kill the Non-Muslims wherever you find them”. This is the verse which is often quoted to show that Islam is a ruthless religion and it teaches its followers extremism.

It has been mentioned by Islamic Scholars again and again that Qur'an cannot be understood just by reading the verses; one has to read the exegesis of Quran or study from an authentic scholar. This verse is thrown at Muslims time and again without proper research being done; even if the critics read from the first verse until around the thirteenth verse, it would have still clarified few of their doubts. But it looks like that some of them knowingly keep quoting this verse out of context just to throw dirt on the religion of Islam.

The whole background of this verse will be discussed and after a thorough analysis of the explanation of the first few verses of Surah Taubah (chapter 9), inshaAllah (God willing), the readers will understand how the critics of Islam are mistaken.

The first thing to keep in mind is that the word mentioned in the verse 5 is Mushrikeen which means polytheists and thus it does not include all the Non-Muslims. Secondly, God has mentioned different types of polytheists in this chapter.

If one does not understand the different types of polytheists then two major problems occur:

1 – One does not know in which verse God is talking about which group of polytheists

2 – One who has not read the exegesis of Qur'an puts all the polytheists in one category as a whole, and thus thinks that God has commanded to kill all the polytheists.

It is imperative to understand some of the historical incidences which took place after five Hijri (five years after the Muslims migrated to Medina). After the unsuccessful attempt of the Non-Muslims in the war of Khandaq (in which the Non-Muslims tried to annihilate Muslims) they returned back to Makkah. The Prophet (sws) told his companions that in that moment the Makkans would never attack them again.

Some time later the Prophet (sws) also saw a dream that Muslims are doing Umrah (small pilgrimage). Since the dream of the Prophet (sws) was always a revelation, it was decided that Muslims would go for Umrah. Muslims had left Makkah for six years and they yearned to go back to their birthplace and to the place where the Ka'aba was present (as the polytheists had forbidden their entry into Makkah and it was impossible for them to go there).

Consequently the Muslims departed for Makkah (without any ammunition to show that they had no intention to fight, and they just wanted to perform the Umrah), but they were stopped by the polytheists at a place called Hudaybiyah. They did not allow them to perform Umrah.
The Polytheists had intentions to fight, but at that time Prophet (sws) said that he would make peace with them if they want to make peace with the Muslims, and he would accept any condition put forth (no matter how unjust so that a peace treaty could be signed; this further shows that Islam is not a religion of violence, but peace). So in the end Muslims signed a peace treaty even though the conditions were extremely unjust.

- The first condition Quraish (main tribe of the polytheists) put forth was that Muslims cannot perform Umrah that year. The Prophet (sws) accepted this condition (and when asked that his dream was a revelation and how is it possible that they cannot perform Umrah, he replied that the dream did not necessarily mean that they would do Umrah that year; they would do it eventually in the near future).

- The second condition they put forth was that if anyone turns away from Islam and came to them they would not return that person; on the other hand, if someone from one of the polytheists immigrates to Medina, the Muslims would return that person to them. The Prophet (sws) accepted this as well.

It was also decided that Muslims and Polytheists would not fight each other for the following ten years.

- The fourth condition was that any Arab tribe was free to join either Muslims or the Polytheists if they wished. Along with this condition it was decided that if some tribe joins with Quraish or the Muslims, and if someone fights with that tribe then it would be considered an act of war on Quraish or the Muslims (as they have joined with either of them and thus were considered a part of them).

- The fifth condition was that the following year Muslims would go for Umrah.

- The sixth term was that Muslims would go the following year for Umrah for three days only without any ammunition.

Hence, the treaty was signed on these conditions and the following year, in seventh Hijri, Muslims went for three days and performed their Umrah.

There were two Arab tribes (Banu Bakr and Banu Khuza’a) who used to fight each other a lot. Banu Khuza’a joined the Muslims and Banu Bakr joined the Quraish in Makkah. After a while, there arose a conflict between these two tribes regarding a stream of water. The conflict was pre-planned by Banu Bakr and they used this excuse to carry out their plot. A lot of people from Banu Khuza’a were killed in that conflict. The Quraish were not only aware of this plan of Banu Bakr, but they provided Banu Bakr with ammunition as well. So knowing that Quraish were on their side, Banu Bakr settled some of their previous scores with Banu Khuza’a.

When this news reached Prophet (sws) he conducted an investigation and when this incidence was confirmed, he sent a delegation to Quraish with the message that they had three options: the Quraish would pay compensation for the murders committed (a hundred camels for one life), or the Quraish should clearly declare that they had broken their ties with Banu Bakr and then the Muslims would deal with them, or the Muslims should be allowed to kill the same number of people from a sub tribe of Banu Bakr (i.e. Banu Nafaasa) on the principle of life for life. The Quraish rejected this proposal and said that if Muslims attacked any of their allies they would take action against them with equal might. They further said that Muslims could do whatever they wanted with them (meaning they were not afraid of them and they would take care of them). Because of this act of Quraish, the treaty of Hudaybiyah was annulled (as the fourth condition of the treaty was not honoured).

When the treaty was null and void, Muslims conquered Makkah in eighth Hijri, and the Prophet (sws) assured Banu Khuza’a that appropriate action would be taken. In ninth Hijri, some Muslims went for pilgrimage and then these verses of Surah Taubah were revealed. The Prophet (sws) sent Ali (raw) to Makkah to recite these verses to the Polytheists (one of the reason being that from the following year only Muslims would be allowed to perform pilgrimage and not the polytheists).

Then in Makkah there were four types of Polytheists:

- The first type of Polytheists was of those with whom Muslims had a treaty of peace without mention of any timeframe.

- The second type was of those with whom there was no treaty at all as they used to live far away and there was no need for any treaty with them.

The first, second and third verse of Surah Taubah talks about these polytheists and Allah says:

“[This is a declaration of] disassociation, from Allah and His Messenger, to those with whom you had made a treaty among the polytheists. So travel freely, [O disbelievers], throughout the land [during] four months but know that you cannot cause failure to Allah and that Allah will disgrace the disbelievers. And [it is] an announcement from Allah and His Messenger to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah is disassociated from the disbelievers, and [so is] His Messenger. So if you repent, that is best for you; but if you turn away – then know that you will not cause failure to Allah. And give tidings to those who disbelieve of a painful punishment” [Al Quran 9:1-3]

God has commanded here that the treaty would be honoured, but from following year only Muslims would be allowed to perform pilgrimage. It is further stated in the narrations of the Prophet (sws) that he told Ali (raw) to announce that from then on no one would circle the Ka'aba in nude (as was the practice in the days gone by) and that no polytheist would enter Paradise unless they repented.

- The third type of polytheists was of those with whom Muslims had a treaty for a certain amount of time: they were the two tribes of Banu Kanaana (Banu Zamaara and Banu Madlij). The verse revealed in the Qur'an was in the month of Shawaal 9th Hijri and so the treaty with them was valid until nine more months.

Allah says:

“Excepted are those with whom you made a treaty among the polytheists and then they have not been deficient towards you in anything or supported anyone against you; so complete for them their treaty until their term [has ended]. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him]” [9:4]

The Muslims were commanded to fulfill their treaty and not to renew it with those who did not break their treaty or supported anyone against the Muslims.

- The fourth type was of the ones who broke the treaty of Hudaybiyah (i.e. Quraish, Banu Bakr and Banu Nafaasa). Allah gave them permission that for four months they could stay there but after that time they had to leave that area.

This is mentioned in the verse 5 which says

“And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.” [9:5]

Basically, if they left then they would not be harmed but if they did not, then God allowed Muslims to fight them, and in the battlefield kill those who broke the treaty (as their act of killing people of Banu Khuza’a was equivalent to the act of war on the Muslims).

So verse 5 speaks about killing those polytheists who did not honour the treaty of Hudaybiyah in the battlefield, and the critics of Islam try to project that Muslims are allowed to kill all the Non-Muslims. Note that God says if they repented then they would be allowed to go (even after their horrendous acts, Islam teaches forgiveness and peace and not fighting over nothing).

Furthermore, one has to combine this verse with the next verse which says:

“And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah. Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know” [Al Quran 9:6]

Meaning that in the battlefield if someone asks for asylum, they would not only give them protection but also escort them to a place of security.

The question here is: which army General in the battlefield can give this type of command? This clearly proves that the main emphasis of Islam is on peace.

I hope after the above mentioned explanation it would be clear that it is incorrect to state that Islam is a violent religion and commands its followers to kill all the Non-Muslims. This is a gross misconception and it is used by those who do not understand the Qur'an or those who have enmity in their hearts against Islam.

Peace

The prophet of Allah, Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him, tells us Allah has said,

“Before the creation of the universe, I forbid that I would oppress and I hate when anyone oppresses.”

Let us consider a very basic understanding of the advent of Islam and the reason for it to be revealed in the time and place where it came. Here is a brief, yet clear statement of purpose with the coming of Islam:

Treatment in Relationships – in Islam, it is all about treatment; how you treat your Lord; how you treat His messenger; how you treat yourself; how you treat your family; how you treat others; how you treat your enviornment – it is always about treatement.

We must keep in mind the condition of the people who were without the guidance of Almighty God and how they had strayed far away from the message that came with Adam, Abraham, Moses and other great prophets, peace be upon them all.

The ignorant and selfish mentality the prevailed throughout the Arab lands did not allow women even the most basic of rights and the treatment of women was abhorent. Women were being treated as property, even less than the status of livestock. They were offered in trade or taken in marriage without consent or consideration for their feelings at all. The customs of the people at the time were far away from anything we might imagine today.

Statements in the Quran pertaining to the treatment of the women came to improve their condition and to raise their status to a level of balance alongside of men. Islam came to change the hearts of the people and show them the proper way to worship Allah and to interact with each other.

Transliteration

Ar-rejalu qawwa muna 'alan-nisa'a bima fadhdhallahu ba'dhahum 'ala bi'dhi wa bima anfaqu min amwalihim. Fas-saliHatu qaintat HafaTHatul-lilghaybi bimaa HafiTHal-lahu, wal-lati takhafuna nushuza hunna fa'iTHuu hunna wa hjuruu hunna fiil-lmadha ji'i wadhribu hunna. Fa'in aTa'nakum flaa tabghuu 'alayhinna sabiilan. Innal-laha kaana 'aliyaan kabiira(n).

One Explanation (tafsir) given of this surahc (chapter 4:34) according to some scholars is:

“Men are the support of women as God gives some more means than others, and because they spend of their wealth (to provide for them). So women who are virtuous are obedient to God and guard the hidden as God has guarded it. As for women who are averse in behavior, talk to them suasively, leave them alone in bed and tap them (like a doctor would tap a patient – lightly), if they open out to you, do not seek an excuse for blaming them. Surely God is sublime and great.”

Meaning of the Words

For the three words fa'izu, wahjaru, and wadribu in the original, translated here 'talk to them suasively,' 'leave them alone (in bed – fi'l-madage'),' and tap lightly (percuss them), respectively,

Fa'izu (to use persuasive speech or admonishment)

Fa'izu, implies the first step should be to make clear to them using straight talk, the position they are in and what is required to comply with the teaching of Islam. This approach may be repeated until it is established she has understood and is willing to comply and come back into line with the proper expected of a Muslim woman.

Hajara – Wahjaru (do not touch or molest them)

Hajara, he says, means to separate body from body, and points out that the expression wahjaru hunna metaphorically means to refrain from touching or molesting them. Zamakhshari is more explicit in his Kshshaf when he says, 'do not get inside their blankets.'

Daraba (tap lightly as 'percuss', not to beat)

Daraba lightly tap them (women).' This view is strengthened by the Prophet's authentic hadith found in a number of authorities, including Bukhari and Muslim:

“Could any of you beat your wife as he would a slave, and then lie with her in the evening?”

There are other traditions in Abu Da'ud, Nasa'i, Ibn Majah, Ahmad bin Hanbal and others, to the effect that he forbade the beating of any woman, saying:

“Never beat God's handmaidens.”

In the past, some translators of this verse have mistakeningly used the word “beat” to represent the word “dhaaraba” in Arabic. This is not the opinion of all scholars and those who are well grounded in both Islam understanding and the English language.

Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend from their means (to support the women). Therefore the righteous women are devout and guard in the husband's absence what Allah orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property, etc.). As to those women on whose part you see ill­conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, go back to them (in intimacy), if they return to obedience and do not seek any means of annoyance against them. Certainly, Allah is Most High, Most Great.[Noble Quran 4:34]

Other translators have offered words such as, “tap” and “pat” to represent a physical type of admonisment. While definitely coming closer to what might be acceptable in many circles than such expressions as “hit” or “beat”, this still does not properly demonstrate the position and usage of such terms in relation to the first of the verse and the connection to the following passage, wherein the clear instructions deal with the women who do not come into compliance. Therefore, it likely be considered to mean: “tap lightly as a doctor would examine a patient”.

We understand from this some of the translations are not properly representing the spirit of the meaning. Therefore, they cannot be considered to be the representation of what has been intended by Almighty God.

Peace

AL-AZHAR'S “POETRY” :

In his weekly sermon in April 2002, the Sheikh of Al-Azhar, Muhammad Sayyid Al-Tantawi, the most senior authority in the Sunni Muslim world, described the Jews as “the enemies of Allah, sons of pigs and apes.”
Viewing Jews as the “descendants of apes and pigs” is grounded in the most important Islamic religious sources, both in divine revelation in the Koran, in the Hadiths (traditions about the Prophet Muhammad), and in the most reliable compilations of traditions collected by the leading ninth-century sages Al-Bukhari and Muslim [both mention transformation into mice and lizards as well]. The notion of transforming Jews into animals appears also in ancient Arabic literature.( SOURCE : MEMRI)

Islam is aggressive.
Islam is dangerous.
Islam is deceitful.
Islam is the ground zero of 99% of ALL terrorist acts perpetrated in the last 30 years.
Islam justifies and encourages terrorism, ergo Islam is a TERRORIST DEATH-LOVING CULT.
Period.

wow this is hilarious. you people are actually removing my comments on which i explained the verses of “violence” and “beating”. great, this further proves how this website is totally biased.

also, to reply to this sir here above:

the sheikh of Al-Azhar is not example to anyone. his statement of niqaab not being part of Islam was the last drop. it shows how ignorant or how greedy he is for fame and money.
how should it be any different when refering to the non-Muslims? he is even the enemy of the Muslims themselves. lol

and you took it from a great source aswell. thank you for proving my point that you guys only know what comes on the media.

http://prepareforthehour.blogspot.com/
http://www.islamswomen.com

Peace

Your comments are being deleted because you are copying and pasting long
winded texts. You can leave a link to your source if you like, but I won't
tolerate long pasted texts. thanks for your cooperation.

ok, then i'm sorry for what i said. i just didn't want to paste more than one link since in some websites it's taken as spam. but thanks for clarifying

I'm ok with links, just don't over do it and start spamming tons of links.
Make your point in your own words, then cite your source.

ok

You are playing with words. Dying in the defence of Allah is praiseworthy, but suicide is forbidden. Muslims who blow themselves and others to pieces in shopping malls and other public places and who fly aircraft into buildings are viewed as defending the interests of Allah are considered to be martyrs. Don't try to kid us that Islam views them as anything else. Are you related to Solkhar, by any chance?

they are doing wrong. no, Islam doesn't aprove of those things. there weren't bombs at the time of the Prophet and even there is reports that the Prophet (sws) wouldn't make a funeral prayer on someone that killed himself in the battlefield. so, suicide is condemned, whether it is “allegedly” for Allah's cause, or not. i said that a good action without proper intention is not accepted, just like proper intention with a wrong action is not accepted.
Dying in the defense of Allah's cause but disobeying Him in the act is a sin, not praiseworthy. Also, when i say defending is defending people. Just like you would save your mom from being killed and you would be killed while trying to save her. that is a kind martyrdom. you were trying to save a person, and you got killed in the process.

Peace

To Safyiah. You say that good actions with proper intentions are accepted but others are not. Do you honestly expect us to believe that the murderers who kill themselves while murdering are not acting out of belief that they are furthering the cause of Islam? There is no shortage of such people, so if what you say is true there would by now be abundant evidence to show that the Muslim world reviles such actions, but it never voices such opinions. Its silence is a nod of approval.

“And those who do not invoke with Allah another deity or kill
the soul which Allah has forbidden [to be killed], except by right,
and do not commit unlawful sexual intercourse. And whoever
should do that will meet a penalty.” [Qur'an 25:68]

The Prophet said:
“And whoever commits suicide with piece of iron will be punished
with the same piece of iron in the Hell Fire.”
Narrated Jundab
the Prophet said, “A man was inflicted with wounds and he
committed suicide, and so Allah said: My slave has caused
death on himself hurriedly, so I forbid Paradise for him.”
[Bukhari, book 23, vol. 2, nr 445]

Narrated Abu Huraira−: The Prophet said, “He who commits
suicide by throttling shall keep on throttling himself in the
Hell Fire (forever) and he who commits suicide by stabbing
himself shall keep on stabbing himself in the Hell−Fire.” [Bukhari, book 23, vol. 2, nr. 446]

Narrated Ibn `Abbas: A man came to the Prophet and said, “O
Allah's Apostle! I have enlisted in the army for such−and−such
Ghazwa, and my wife is leaving for Hajj.” Allah's Apostle
said, “Go back and perform Hajj with your wife.”
[Bukhari, book 23, 4, 295]

Narrated Abu Huraira: We were in the company of Allah's
Apostle in a Ghazwa, and he remarked about a man who claimed
to be a Muslim, saying, “This (man) is from the people of the
(Hell) Fire.” When the battle started, the man fought
violently till he got wounded. Somebody said, “O Allah's
Apostle! The man whom you described as being from the people
of the (Hell) Fire fought violently today and died.” The
Prophet said, “He will go to the (Hell) Fire.” Some people
were on the point of doubting (the truth of what the Prophet
had said) while they were in this state, suddenly someone said
that he was still alive but severely wounded. When night fell,
he lost patience and committed suicide. The Prophet was
informed of that, and he said, “Allah is Greater! I testify
that I am Allah's Slave and His Apostle.” Then he ordered
Bilal to announce amongst the people: 'None will enter
Paradise but a Muslim, and Allah may support this religion
(i.e. Islam) even with a disobedient man.'
[Bukhari, vol. 23, 4, 297]

Narrated Abu Huraira: We witnessed (the battle of) Khaibar.
Allah's Apostle said about one of those who were with him and
who claimed to be a Muslim. “This (man) is from the dwellers
of the Hell−Fire.” When the battle started, that fellow fought
so violently and bravely that he received plenty of wounds.
Some of the people were about to doubt (the Prophet's
statement), but the man, feeling the pain of his wounds, put
his hand into his quiver and took out of it, some arrows with
which he slaughtered himself (i.e. committed suicide). Then
some men amongst the Muslims came hurriedly and said, “O
Allah's Apostle! Allah has made your statement true so−and−so
has committed suicide. “The Prophet said, “O so−and−so! Get up
and make an announcement that none but a believer will enter
Paradise and that Allah may support the religion with an
unchaste (evil) wicked man. [Bukhari, 23, 5, 515]

Peace

“so, those who claim that by dying and blowing themselves up they go to Paradise, most probably they won't.”

“third – it's not true what you say about Christians. many say and even give proof that only accepting Jesus (as) as their God and Saviour, you'll go to Heaven, since “supposely” your sins are forgiven since the day he (as) “died” for people's sins.”

The keys words here are “probably” and “supposedly”. Niether Muslim nor Christian, or even Jew for that matter, knows who is right when it comes to what happens in the after-life, or if there even is an after-life, for that matter. All religion comes down to faith. You have yours, and they have their's. What's sad is that anyone has to kill each other over something that can't be proven, unless you die.

well, if you're not a believer, i totally respect that. but by the proof in Islam, a person that commits suicide by exploding, is not going to Paradise. i'm not claiming to know what happens in the after life, but i know in Islam, suicide is not seen as something good from the hadiths i quoted supported by the Qur'an. and they are taken from Bukhari, so they are authentic.

just like a Christian or a Jew, what i may know from the after life is what is written in the sources of the religion. but if you're an atheist, i respect that. although i stated and i gave proof that in my religion suicide is not condoned, actually de Prophet (sws) saw a person that commits suicide as a disbeliever.

Peace

I love reading your posts, Hellosnackbar. You are a doctor, yes? And you are Irish, yes? There's an old song that says that nobody loves like an Irishman. (The turbanned Turk/Who scorns the world/Walks around with his whiskers curled/ Keeps a hundred wives under lock and key/For no other man but himself to see/But long may he pray on his al-Koran/Before he can love like an Irishman.) Is this true, you sexy old Hibernian? You lot invented whisky, too, didn't you? What a wicked race you are.

Your logic is impeccable Odyssia.
Pity the benighted minions of the death cult do not apply such common sense.
Curiously FGM has to be clitidorectomy as simply removing the overlying epithelium (as described by Safyiah)could only be accomplished using an operating microscope.(I would seriously doubt such apparatus to be present in every Muslim kitchen?).A clitidorotomy is clearly impossible!
Thanks for your compliment;I have to say that I enjoy your posts to dear lady.(especially one a few months ago when
you noticed a statemental contradiction in the same short paragraph from some Muslim moron).
I also admire your articulate use of English(I'm assuming the latter is not your first language?)
I regard FGM as an unspeakable outrage which rightly condemns the status of Muslim adherents to that of the barbarian.
I would not perform a clitidorectomy at gun point.
But I don't think I'd have any problem castrating anyone who performed such an act.
But as a vet I'd refer him(them) to you; as you've probably more experience in this area.

In a message dated 3/26/2010 10:47:26 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
writes:

http://infidelsarecool.com/2008/12/17/egypt-97-…
tal-mutilation/#comment-41855504

I'm not an atheist, I'm a Deist. I believe in a Supreme Being, a Creator of
All Things, a spiritual being, not the flesh and blood entities I believe
passed themselves off as “gods” in ancient times using advanced technology.
They started “religion” as part of their attempt to civilize us, after
creating us using genetic engineering. They created us to be their slave
labour. Doesn't Allah demand you be his slave? Is that a coincidence? Sometime
in the last 1,000 years or so, they left, and men filled the leadership
roles, and corrupted religion, as men tend to do. In effect, we are still
waiting and yearning for their return. Those “gods” fought amongst themselves,
and we got drawn into their wars, and we are still fighting wars in their
names today. The Quran is the last of the “ancient” religions based on a
“holy” book, that was revealed by a “god”. I consider the Mormons a “modern”
version. The followers of the Quran created an empire with the sword, and
the real basis of the war Muslims are waging in the name of jihad, is to
spread that empire around the whole world. Many ancient empires were created in
the names of “gods”, or by demi-gods, Alexander the Great claimed to be a
demi-god. If you accepted that the “god” you were worshipping was a flesh
and blood entity like yourself, would you continue to worship it? Would you
continue to follow the teachings of that entity that leads to murder and
martyrdom in it's name? I'm not going to prosletyze my beliefs to you. These
are my personal beliefs. I belong to no religion. I learned these things on
my own, and decided they were truth for myself. It sounds like you are
leading a good life, but many in your “religion” are murdering and dying in
it's name. Do you support that? If not, shouldn't you question the reason for
it?

well, the silence of the people is ignorance as well. what Muslims that spread the message of Islam are trying to do is to educate both Muslims and non-Muslims about Islam. you can't simply say “you're wrong and you have to change”, you have to give them the information and time to educate them so they can actually change. what the da'ees (people calling to Islam) arround the globe are doing, including people like myself through the internet (which is the most direct way we have to reach people) is to educate both Muslims and non-Muslims and also saying they are wrong in bombing and murdering, but we are not attacking them and saying their religion is backwards. we are proving that in their religion there are proof that condemn such acts. we are not going to reach anywhere saying “this happened here and that happened there”, we have to give them a way to make things right. when you have a student that doesn't study at all, are you going to tell him “you are stupid”? no, you should encourage him and give him the reason why he should study and tell him that what he is doing is not going to benefit him. changing things are not that simple as denouncing them. you denounce, then what? that person will have enmity inside because you said he is wrong. but if you explain to him why he is wrong without insulting or even insulting his beliefs, you may achieve more than simply enmity. he may change for better.

Peace

Thanks Odyssia! I've heard that song too.The Irish have a culture of song writing as an identity badge.
And yes the Irish did invent whiskey(with an e);I'm just having a tot Old Bushmill's black label(I can strongly endorse this brand).
Here's a recipe for Irish coffee:First prepare some good coffee(I recommend two to three shots of Italian espresso; Illy is a good brand).
Next transfer coffee to a heated cup or glass and add heated Irish whiskey);c. 1/3 whiskey t 2/3 coffee,
Next place a cool inverted spoon just under the surface of the mixture and carefully run some chilled double cream over the back of the spoon;so that it forms a layer over the coffee mix(about 1/5 of the total volume)
Sip the cold cream and the hot coffee mix simultaneously.
Simply beautiful.
Oh you poor Muslims; such delicate pleasures are denied you.
Oh I forgot add some crude Demerara sugar to the coffee mix.
Try this Odyssia and enjoy it!

I've made several disparaging remarks about Christianity that we've debated here, but I have to concede ultimately that Christianity is a bit ahead of Islam right now. The problem with Christianity was that, like Islam, if you published the wrong book you and the book would be burned. That was a long time ago. Christianity has been reformed beyond recognition, and I know scarcely any Christians that would be intolerant towards gays, deny scientific theories or even advocate violence. They know that Jesus' love is all they need, and while I do not share their faith I endorse it fully. This happened because poets, writers and scientists kept breaking the barriers of the society. For some reason, Islamists view that progress as being a Western export. They hate the West and its values. Most daa'iahs I've met mock Christianity, plug Creationism and call the west a land of 'decadence and rape'. Spreading Islam is not the answer. Breaking its hold is. These 'beliefs' as you call them are not sacred. I guarantee you, I could use the same language people use to describe the prophet when talking about someone's favorite team and no-one would care. Muslims have to get used to living in this world and century. So if someone insults their beliefs, they just have to roll with it.

You cannot hide behind the lie that the silence of which we speak is the result of ignorance of the deeds. Not even Muslims are that ignorant, although they might be forgiven for being so given that to many of them education consists of incessant reading of the Qu'ran and little else. But there are the communication media too, and I would guess that a large percentage of Muslims have access to them. But wait ….. maybe the radio and TV stations in Muslim countries do not report the acts of terrorism perpetrated throughout the world by followers of the religion of peace. If so, why not? Is the aim to keep the people ignorant and thus maintain control? Even if such is the case I cannot imagine that the facts always fail to get through. There can be no doubt that Muslims know of “acts of martyrdom” and that they believe the “martyrs” are swiftly taken into Allah's loving embrace to be rewarded with all those virgins and the other nonsense you people want to be true. Is it so difficult for people to understand that such deeds are evil? Are they so stupid or so twisted that they have to undertake a study to see that murder is wrong? Of course not. They have been raised to believe that such actions are nothing more than advancement of Islam. Killing for Allah is the noblest thing, but dying in doing so is the stuff of heroism which attracts legions of recruits to the cause. What was that which the murders shouted the moment before the planes hit the Twin Towers?

Thank you, Hellosnackbar. English is my second language, but I was taught it most thoroughly, so I love it even more than my mother tongue. It's a strange thing, but it often happens that English instruction in a foreign country is more rigorous and painstakingly exact than in Britain, America, Australia, etc. I know several Indians whose English is impeccable. The hard part of conversing in English is keeping up with the slang. Quite recently, someone here used the word “skinny” in a way I still do not understand. Enlighten me.

You are correct in thinking I have had extensive experience in castration – much of my income derives from snipping away the family jewels. It's amusing to see guys immediately crossing their legs when I tell of castrating dogs and cats.

Well said, Mazabdul.

Most thoroughly !that's almost an understatement.
I've always been of the opinion that the ability to learn a discipline is not only the willingness of the student to learn;but also the ability of the teacher to couch the particular subject in terms the pupil finds interesting.
Clearly the synergy with your English teacher was absolutely first rate.
When I was at The London Hospital I spent two days at Cambridge University Veterinary College on a sabbatical.
I assisted a veterinary anaesthetist,in intubating a horse.
Skinny in the context you mention is an Americanism(I learned the meaning from James Elroy's LA Confidential) it means the lowdown(another Americanism)or pedantically the complete relevant information.
And like all men; I experience a momentary feeling of discomfort when contemplating castration..

@ everyone

Dear people, i said what i had to say. there are Muslims striving to educate their brothers and sisters. those “attacks” you see are coming from Bangladesh, India, Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, etc. all of these countries have problems, especially because of invasion and occupation. if you ask any sociologist, when violence is done by a group of people, most of the time it has to do with traumas they had before. if people are recurring to violence, we must ask what justifies it, and it's not Islam. when i was in Angola, i knew that the Portuguese authorities were creating division among people and creating civil wars just to get their resources. do you think it's different for those countries? you have to live in a country like that to see the truth. if you listen to the media, you won't reach anywhere, i tell you. the “monopoly” games the big countries do from America to Europe are well known here. come and see. meet the people that suffered from it and think in what state you would be if you were in their shoes.
it's really interesting how some people come to forums and other places for debate and debate about things based on the news. i tell you something, the news is never, NEVER objective. that's impossible. it is limited to the scope of intelligence of the journalist and also to what he sees. what if he sees only one side (which occurs most of the time)? what if he sees the few wrong people and rejects the majority that are not doing any damage? well, that's what happens most of the time. The ethics in journalism are far gone.
i'm 18 years old but i have lived more than someone with 40 or more and it's nothing to be proud of. i saw and grew up with images i would be ready to delete them from my memory if i could. but those images gave me strength and made me stood up for the rights of everyone, not excluding one single person.
if you want to know, i won't give up this religion in whose sacred sources (that are NOT including only the Qur'an), gave me more insight how to be a better human. i wasn't based on a Christian's actions when i studied Christianity. To give value to a religion, you have to know the scriptures, not the followers. So, compare the Torah, Talmud, New Testament with the Qur'an.
When someone adopts a religion, it should never be by the followers but what are the teachings of the religion. Even Muslims tend to fail in that aspect, unfortunately.

I tell you a number of people trying to present the true Islam to the world: Yusuf Estes, Dr. Zakir Naik, Ahmed Deedat (this sir died already but his help was tremendous), Dr. Idris Tawfiq, and many others. Search about them and read some of their works. Maybe it will enlighten some of the answers you're looking for.

If you don't want to do that, you can just keep talking of things you don't actually know, but you think you know. And ignorance is not the worst thing for a person, the worst thing is thinking he/she knows about something when actually he/she doesn't know even half of it.

Basing our knowledge on news is not and will never be correct for the reasons stated above.

This world has people in power that just make you think what they want you to think. And that's how the hate starts.

Now, i must say, i can't come to this website all the time and this debate has to end. I did my part and i tried to make people see the other side, now it's up to you to see it or not or searching about it to see for yourselves. I have a life in the real world, lol, and i have to study and spend time with my family. It's not pleasant for me nor for my family that i spend much time on the internet. Since i also have blogs to update, youtube videos to do and i have to talk to my parents and sister that are in Portugal. Adding the responses to this website, it's a lot, hehe. Don't think i'm not aware of what goes on in some places, i'm trying to do my share just like many other people.
see my websites: http://prepareforthehour.blogspot.com/ and http://islamemportugues.blogspot.com/ (this second one is in portuguese so that the message can be clear to the people that speak this language) and my youtube channel is “http://www.youtube.com/bluemoonamirty

Attacking is not going to take us anywhere, it will only generate more hate.

Take care and may you all be happy.

Peace

” the sheikh of Al-Azhar is not example to anyone “

So you're gonna accept only the examples that FIT into your
deceitful narrative, aren't you ?

We all could quote HUNDREDS of high-ranking muslims
and you'd simply dismiss'em for not being “representative”
of what you call “REAL ISLAM”.

BREAKING NEWS:

The “REAL ISLAM” showed itself today in Moscow's Subway System…
Your damn sisters perpetrated ANOTHER suicide/ homicide bombing
that killed at least 35 infidels.

Please, now say that those wicked muslimas don't represent the “real Islam”…

REAL ISLAM = TERRORISM.

This is a rock-solid, well-known truth.

“if you ask any sociologist, when violence is done by a group of people, most of the time it has to do with traumas they had before” Good point. Was not Islam born in violence? Was not Mohammed a warrior that spread Islam by the sword? Did not Islam spread by the sword until it had created an empire? Was it not only stopped by two great battles in Europe? Islam's history is full of the violence and war inherent in it. Any claims of moderation in Islam are lies. When Islam could not expand, it stagnated. Today, it is trying to overcome that stagnation and resume it's expansion with new strategies and tactics, invented daily. It's claims of moderation are part of the propaganda tied to it. It's claims of invasion and occupation are used to justify it's own. At 18, you cannot know how naive and idealistic you still are. I hope you live as long as I have to find that out.

In my opinions, actions speak louder than words. I judge everyone by their actions, not just Muslims, but Muslim's actions speak louder than anyone else's today. When Christians steal, they are punished when they are caught. Muslims are praised for many of their actions, matryrs go to “paradise”, there are “honor” killings for various reasons, all would be slights outside Islam. And what sources do you look for?

A sect is a sect, whatever the reason for the split. In the end, it demonstrates that Islam is as open to interpretation as any other religion.

What are the sources for the news but the days events? Novels? Novels are usually fiction, can you not tell the difference between fiction and fact? There are books that are written based on factual information. I read many of them and decide for myself what is true, you could do the same.

Just saying “Hello”, Sir W. Your posts get better and better. Love 'em.

For your interest …….. Australia has just had it hottest decade on record. Now you know that I strongly suspect that global warming is a reality, BUT does this hot decade prove anything? Not a damned thing! (It might, though.)

HSB, the Irish are BRILLIANT! You know how we define an Irishman in Wales? A Welshman who can swim …..!

“Israelis are killing thousands of Palestinians.” Notice how they do this whenever Palestinians fire rockets into Israel? And they'll keep doing it, too, I sincerely hope.Their response has sweet fuck all to do with the Torah, but with self-preservation. The Holocaust is past. So the Jews should forget about it? They should ignore history and “live from hand to mouth”? More than half the Jews don't know what the Holocaust was??? They are as likely to be ignorant of it as they are of Pesach. They are unlikely to forget a certain Olympic Games, too, when Palestinian murderers slaughtered defenceless Israeli Olympic athletes. If the Palestinians had half a brain they would by now be living in Jordan, but their leader fucked up that arrangement, didn't he? The pain the Palestinians presently suffer is of their own doing and choosing. What a parcel of no-hopers they are! Rabble. Christ! Imagine waking up in the morning, looking in the mirror and seeing a Palestinian!

Global warming, and cooling, are not really the problem, it's whether or not man is contributing to global warming that's the issue. That's where the evidence is open to interpretation, where the science is far from decided, despite what the main stream scientists that have allied themselves with politicians, and vice versa, would like you to believe. Even if you can prove global warming is caused by man, it would be hard to prove that redistributing trillions of dollars from wealthy countries to poor countries would reverse it. I believe that is the ulterior motive behind blaming mankind for global warming, just as those behind Health Care Refrom are now admitting that's what the Health Care Bill was really about, the redistribution of wealth in America, just as many of us tried to warn about. I urge you to look further into the relationships between scientists and politicians these days. I think you will find there are more problems with those relationships than just those in global warming.

And “Hello” to you, Beejj. Thank you very much for your kind words. I look forward to reading your posts as well, our unique ways of expressing ourselves stimulate our daily lives.

“In Islam, it's explicit in the Qur'an that the scriptures sent by God before were made as a test to the People of the Book (i.e. Jews and Christians), they fell in sin and corrupted the scriptures to fit their own desires.” In the Bible, it tells how the Jews sinned against Jehovah, and he sent the Assyrians, Babylonians, and others to punish them. The Christians believe He finally got tired of that routine and sent Jesus to break the cycle and forgive them their sins. The Jews couldn't accept they could be so fortunate, and stuck to their ways, while much of the rest of the world embraced the concept of Jesus. Then Islam came along and tried to sweep it all away and impose it's will on the whole world. Aside from the recognition of and interaction with other “gods” by Jehovah in the Bible, it just doesn't make sense to me that Jehovah would change his name to Allah, recruit a prophet, and only “god” knows why he chose Mohammed, create a new “religion” that would do just that. Why would the same diety that had sent his son to save mankind, turn around and try to destroy much of said mankind? It just doesn't make sense that the God that create this marvelous, intricate universe and life itself, would be so illogical, bordering on insane, when dealing with mankind.

Muslims do demand special treatment, they want their women covered in public, no matter where they live, no matter what the culture of their host countries, for example. And it's based on their belief that they were sent to implement the Quran, to “test the People of the Book”. Yes, there are those differences you point out between Jews, Christians, and Muslims, and you are killing each other, and other innocent peope, over them. Why? How is anyone's soul made better by the violence and killing done in the names of your religions? Especially if you are all worshipping the same God? If it is the same God, then you're fighting over how he should be worshipped, is that worth it? If it's not the same God, who are you fighting for? Who's side are you really on? What kind of God expects a world of peace to come out of fighting and killing? What kind of God expects sinners to be saved by killing them? If He knows that's true, why doesn't he just kill them himself? If anyone knew who the real sinners are, He would, if He was truly ominiscient. I could go on about the illogical in all three of these major religions. I could turn around and point out all the good things about them too, about religion in general. But Islam is my concern here, because Islam is the religion initiating the killing these days.

Please do yourself a favour and search “female circumcision” on “Google Images”
Go 30 to 50 into the results to see the real brutality.
This is real Stone Age Stuff.
I live in Australia and we do not want this behaviour.

CULTURAL NOT ISLAMIC

Islamic is cultural