Saudi Arabia declares ban on Valentine’s Day, calls it a sin to celebrate love

by Kal El on February 10, 2009 · Comments

According to Shariah, it is a sin to celebrate your love for someone. Unless of course that love is between a 50 year old man and a 9 year old(be it a girl or boy). Then it’s ok. But buying that special someone red roses or heart shaped chocolates? That’s a fatwa.

Saudi Arabia bans all things red ahead of Valentine’s Day

(CNN) — Saudi Arabia has asked florists and gift shops to remove all red items until after Valentine’s Day, calling the celebration of such a holiday a sin, local media reported Monday.

“As Muslims we shouldn’t celebrate a non-Muslim celebration, especially this one that encourages immoral relations between unmarried men and women, ” Sheikh Khaled Al-Dossari, a scholar in Islamic studies, told the Saudi Gazette, an English-language newspaper.

Every year, officials with the conservative Muslim kingdom’s Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice clamp down on shops a few days before February 14, instructing them to remove red roses, red wrapping paper, gift boxes and teddy bears. On the eve of the holiday, they raid stores and seize symbols of love.

The virtue and vice squad is a police force of several thousand charged with, among other things, enforcing dress codes and segregating the sexes. Saudi Arabia, which follows a strict interpretation of Islam called Wahhabism, punishes unrelated women and men who mingle in public.

Ahmed Al-Omran, a university student in Riyadh, told CNN that the government decision will give the international media another reason to make fun of the Saudis “but I think that we got used to that by now.”

“I think what they are doing is ridiculous,” said Al-Omran, who maintains the blog ‘Saudi Jeans.’ “What the conservatives in this country need to learn is something called ‘tolerance.’ If they don’t see the permissibility of celebrating such an occasion, then fine — they should not celebrate it. But they have to know they have no right to impose their point of view on others.”

Because of the ban on red roses, a black market has flowered ahead of Valentine’s Day. Roses that normally go for five Saudi riyal ($1.30) fetch up to 30 riyal ($8) on February 14, the Saudi Gazette said.

“Sometimes we deliver the bouquets in the middle of the night or early morning, to avoid suspicion,” one florist told the paper.

Saudi Arabia has often come under criticism for its treatment of women, most recently in a United Nations report that blasted the kingdom for widespread discrimination. Under Saudi law, women are subject to numerous restrictions, including a prohibition against driving and a requirement that they get a man’s permission to travel or have surgery.

A businesswoman told the Times of London this month that she was detained and strip-searched by the religious police for holding a meeting in a coffee shop with male colleagues.

Two years ago, a teenager was raped by seven men who found her alone with a man unrelated to her. The government sentenced the 19-year-old woman to 200 lashes and six months in prison for being in the company of a man who wasn’t a family member or her husband. She was later pardoned. The seven rapists were sentenced to two to nine years in prison.

As you read the following quote, remember it was the Saudis who hosted an interfaith dialogue last year: “As Muslims we shouldn’t celebrate a non-Muslim celebration, especially this one that encourages immoral relations between unmarried men and women.”

In line with that logic, we should not celebrate a single damned muslim holiday, if that is how they see ours. So from now on, during Ramadan, or any other muslim holiday, be sure to voice your opposition to being forced to cater to muslims, provided you aren’t living in a muslim country. They will not honor our holidays, but if you do not honor theirs, they will throw you in jail. This is the tolerance afforded the infidels, by the religion of peace, islam.

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  • Adam Susanowo
    Saudi Arabia was a temporary Cold War ally of the west, that has long outlived its usefulness.
  • migueljs16
    I did not know, but according to Islam, u can't have oral, or any type of sex position or style if not missionary.... I Guess Allah wants u to fuck in his approved ordered also.
    I'm religious, but if God ask me why I sex my wife,that certain way, I'll just answer, why would u even care sir.
    Good thing he does not lol

    Seriously where these people get educated? like I'll like to see those that come out of those country and say... wow we are some Crazy SOB
  • Mic
    Wow! impressive answers from xkon!
    (I didn't expect u to be a female)
  • hellosnackbar
    Have you noticed that anything stated by our "normal" contributors is automatically dismissed by "our resident
    muslim scholar" xkon" as garbage.
    I mean of course, that as a constant purveyor of metaphorical "garbage" himself his reflexive cognitive dissonance allows no other analysis.
    I'm starting to feel sorry for him.
    That the madrassa can induce such a mindset ,is a measure of the "mindfuck"that these places can effect.
  • Tonto
    Who really give a damn what the fantasy book of muhamad says? How about the here and right now? The fact remains that the twinkies of islam are much more threatened by the rest of the world than vice verse. It is the muz that demand special concessions because they feel threatened by customs of others. All the time. Apostacy is threatened by death....why? Theatening! Uncovered hair on women is forbidden. Why? Threatening! Christian churches in muz countries forbidden. Why? Threatening! The muz pussies are afraid of everything! Think about that!
  • Kal_El
    You were in hysterics over our referring to you as "he"? Are you not aware that the name xkon is gender neuter, and by default we tend to refer to unkown persons online as 'he'? Would you rather we refer to you as an inanimate object (an "it")? You choosing not to disclose your gender doesn't prove anything, especially not about your imagined debate skills. All you do is complain that we are not answering your questions about verses you translate according to YOUR interpretation, then complain we are mistranslating them when your brothers in faith, your fellow muslims use those SAME VERSES to justify honor killings, kidnapping and beheading, gang rape in Europe, wife beating, and all the other violent acts of jihad. And you wonder why we do not reply? As for you being her to inform, what are you here to inform us of? That for a thousand years the muslims ruled through violence? We know that. We also know that they were sent packing at Vienna, and became a byline in history for the past three centuries. No one gave a crap until 1979, when muslims started attacking the West again in force. Now you come here to this "worthless" site (as you call it) and spend the better part of a week trying to tell us that 1400 years of muslim violence to spread the faith is not true islam???? So Muhammad the pedophile, the rapist, the thief, the murder, was not living according to islam? So why do you muslims worship and exhalt him so if he did not live according to islam?
  • Beejj
    Farewell, xkon. Don't think you answered any of the questions asked of you, and don't think you refuted our debates, as you put it, because you did not.
    And why this nonsense about claiming to be female? If you are female, Mohammed was a rocket scientist.
  • In last response to Beej, Kal El, and every other ignorant person:
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    Kal El: "We are not here to refute any verses you spew from the Book of the Dumb aka the quran."

    Really? I guess I'm just hallucinating all these "chosen" verses from the Quran on this site that you all "spew" on.

    "The scores of muslims who wage jihad on infidels"

    Stop being ignorant . There are terrorists in every religious group around the world. Islam is the religion, and Muslims are the people. Get over being anti Islam.

    "That and the fact that when you do not get the answer you want"

    Umm...the answers I want? The question should be rephrased to: What answers HAVE I gotten? And if you want to answer, by all means answer the questions I asked quagmire about Christianity, seeing as you do SO well in answering responses regarding Islam. So for you, these questions should be a breeze. And by the way, I never knew that questioning the beliefs of Christianity meant I was attacking the faith. If that's the case, then I can see why thousands of Christians are embracing Islam everyday.
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    Beej: I have to hand it to you, for someone who is an educated trained scientist, I would not expect your views to be so illogical and so ignorant towards Islam. I have refuted your arguments, each time you asking me to answer a question or looking something up for you, with you not EVEN acknowledging my prior statements or evidence. But OK, I'll be the bigger person. Here's a single link LISTING ALL the TOP SCIENTISTS (whom CONVERTED to ISLAM), and their comments on the scientific facts (miracles) on the Quran:

    http://talk.islamicnetwork.com/showthread.php?t=1...
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    Oh, and I just HAD to add this:

    "I wonder if you know of any Muslim female who might like to cross swords on this site. Her outlook would be fascinating."

    KNOW any? I'm guessing you didn't realize that you're actually talking to one!

    I have to hand it to ALL of you. I was in
    HYSTERICS every time you referred to me as a "He". I was actually waiting for the right time to tell ALL of you, and now that I end my debates with you and abandon this worthless site, I thought now would be the PERFECT timing.

    See, this actually PROVES that you ALL ASSUME things. You only ASSUMED that I was a male because you didn't THINK a female could debate like that, let alone take on a challenge. And even the name 'xkon' is not a reference to that of a male OR female for you to be confused.
    I guess I shouldn't be telling you about my age either. I think I'll leave it like that. That's enough embarrassment for one day.

    So what's to say that the other things that you also THINK are "facts" would also be WRONG? It's because of your IGNORANCE that you allow the media to do the thinking for you. You all insult Muslims and their faith but when a Muslims questions other beliefs than that is somehow "Unacceptable".

    Do you think I was asking these questions on Christianity because I wanted to know the answers? I already KNOW the answers. The questions are there just for you to answer YOURSELVES. I was just curious in the replies.

    The reason I refuted your debates well was because the information does not come from my own knowledge. That's the beauty of Islam. The knowledge is already given and all I had to do was simply use it.

    So now that I leave you to ponder about all the things I questioned you on, and all the things I provided you answers and evidence with, you can choose to do as you all please. There's no shame in change. I'm only here to inform; the rest is truly up to you.
  • Oh and Quagmire, regarding question 4 as it sounds "you" may want evidence on that:

    "Father, why hast thou forsaken me?" Matthew 27:46

    Jesus (God) is calling out to his Father (i.e. himself) while being crucified by humans whom he (being the Father AND the Son) himself created.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Ok, that's all I wanted to add. Keep telling yourself whatever you want. Whatever helps you sleep at night. And as of now my conversations/debates have ended with you.
  • Beejj
    Xkon, I hope this does not mean you are leaving us. If so, I shall miss you, because even though I fervently disagree with your views and your style of "debating", you provide food for thought. I hope you might reconsider. I apologise for taking you to task over your grammatical blunders, but when you call people stupid you run the risk of such retaliation. I wonder if you know of any Muslim female who might like to cross swords on this site. Her outlook would be fascinating. By the way, I am a trained scientist, holding 4 degrees, so if I saw angels I'd say so, but I won't because they exist only in people's imaginations. I am qualified enough, however, to tell you if the scientists who turned to Islam are any good. Their names? Perhaps our paths will cross again .... as I help you to cross the road!
  • Oh, and regarding question 4. "You" want evidence on that?

    "Father, why hast thou forsaken me?" Matthew 27:46

    Jesus (God) is calling out to his Father (i.e. himself) while being crucified by humans whom he (being the Father AND the Son) himself created.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Ok, that's all I wanted to add. Keep telling yourself whatever you want. Whatever helps you sleep at night. And as of now my conversations/debates have ended with you.
  • Oh, and regarding question 4. "You" want evidence on that?

    "Father, why hast thou forsaken me?" Matthew 27:46

    Jesus (God) is calling out to his Father (i.e. himself) while being crucified by humans he created himself.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Ok, that's all I wanted to add. Keep telling yourself whatever you want. Whatever helps you sleep at night. And as of now my conversations/debates have ended with you.
  • Kal_El
    You just don't get it, do you? We are not here to refute any verses you spew from the Book of the Dumb aka the quran. The scores of muslims who wage jihad on infidels across the globe do it for us through their actions. That and the fact that when you do not get the answer you want, you resort to personal attacks, like a typical muslim.
  • I find it amusing that everyone here focuses on my grammatical/spelling errors when they should be refuting my arguments. It's like you only look for something like "grammatical mistakes" to correct me on. How about you make yourself useful and answer the questions that no one ever seems to want to respond to? I'm telling you Beej, even if you witnessed Angels you'd still be in denial. Anyways, my debates with most people have already finished. They prove not only to have ignorance towards Muslims, but no knowledge of their own beliefs. I already did my part; the rest is up to you. Have fun living the rest of your life without a purpose.
  • I find it amusing that everyone here focuses on my grammatical/spelling errors when they should be refuting my arguments. It's like you only look for something like "grammatical mistakes" to correct me on. How about you make yourself useful and answer the questions that no one ever seems to want to respond to? I'm telling you Beej, even if you witnessed Angels you'd still be in denial. Anyways, my debates with most people have already finished. They prove not only to have ignorance towards Muslims, but no knowledge of their own beliefs. Have fun living the rest of your life without a purpose. I already did my part; the rest is up to you.
  • I find it amusing that everyone here focuses on my grammatical/spelling errors when they should be refuting my arguments. It's like you only look for something like "grammatical mistakes" to correct me on. How about you make yourself useful and answer the questions that no one ever seems to want to respond to? I'm telling you Beej, even if you witnessed Angels you'd still be in denial. Anyways, my debates with most people have already finished. They prove not only to have ignorance towards Muslims, but no knowledge of their own beliefs. Have fun living your life without a purpose. I informed and rest is up to you.
  • I find it amusing that everyone here focuses on my grammatical/spelling errors when they should be refuting my arguments. It's like you only look for something like "grammatical mistakes" to correct me on. How about you make yourself useful and answer the questions that no one ever seems to want to respond to? I'm telling you Beej, even if you witnessed Angels you'd still be in denial. Anyways, my debates with most people have already finished. They prove not only to have ignorance towards Muslims, but no knowledge of their own beliefs. Have fun living your life without a purpose.
  • I find it amusing that everyone here focuses on my grammatical/spelling errors when they should be refuting my arguments. It's like you only look for something like "grammatical mistakes" to correct me on. How about you make yourself useful and answer the questions that no one ever seems to want to respond to? I'm telling you Beej, even if you witnessed Angels you'd still be in denial. Anyways, my debates with most people has already finished. They prove not only to have ignorance towards Muslims, but no knowledge of their own beliefs. Have fun living your life without a purpose.
  • I find it amusing that everyone here focuses on my grammatical/spelling errors when they should be refuting my arguments. It's like you only want something as "grammar mistakes" to correct me on. How about you make yourself useful and answer the questions that no one ever seems to want to respond to? I'm telling you Beej, even if you witnessed Angels you'd still be in denial. Anyways, my debates with most people has already finished. They prove not only to have ignorance towards Muslims, but no knowledge of their own beliefs. Have fun living your life without a purpose.
  • Beejj
    Xkon, I love it when you become all personal and spiteful. You seem to be suggesting that you have greater intelligence than I. Perhaps you do, although I have yet to see any evidence for your having even a modicum. Hiding your light under a bushel, are you? You must fight your natural modesty and allow your intellect to shine forth. Um ...... what does your atrociously ungrammatical first sentence mean ... the one about refuting THEIR own beliefs? See? You MUST be right! I MUST be stupid!
  • Seeing as how you could not answer my questions to you on your OWN very beliefs, all your other "claims" are of course worthless. Quagmire, you know nothing. Just because the Bible has numerous versions, that doesn't mean you should go and try to make claims on the Quran that everyone knows otherwise. If you say the grass is blue, is anyone going to believe you? No, you're just going to embarrass yourself because you're replacing fiction with fact.
    FACT: there is only ONE version of the Quran (meaning the SAME Arabic text, word FOR word) That is KNOWN, seeing that the Quran is the most recited most studied book on the planet. Knock on every Muslim's door and let me know if you find a SINGLE letter that is different.
    TRANSLATION (meaning ANY other language besides Arabic) of the Quran will not be word for word, as the translation is NOT what is recited. In fact, NO Quran can have the translation alone WITHOUT the actual Arabic text. Translations are there just for you to understand what the verses mean.
    And when you say there are different methods of "recitation" that has NOTHING to do with the version of the Quran changing. It just means the PRONUNCIATION is different.
    To make this easier for you as I know you have complication in understanding, so for example taking the word 'potato'. The spelling and definition of that remains the SAME, but you can have people pronouncing it DIFFERENTLY. It doesn't matter if it's pronounced a little differently, just as long as that word still
    remains the same in meaning and spelling. Do you now understand that RECITATION (i.e. PRONUNCIATION) has NOTHING to do with version of the Quran changing?
    Don't bother trying to mess up with facts, because once again you're only going to embarrass yourself, such as you already did by being unable to answer for me a SINGLE question about YOUR own faith.
    See how someone educated can so easily refute you? There's a reason why I always say to people, "Go educate yourselves."
  • Beej, the only failure I see is when one cannot refute their own beliefs. And of course you not being the brightest Atheists around does not help the fact that Quagmire (or any Christian for that matter) cannot answer these simple questions. But of course if you or anyone else thinks they can answer them, by ALL means go ahead.
  • Seeing as how you could not answer my questions to you on your OWN very beliefs, all your other "claims" are of course worthless. Quagmire, you know nothing. Just because the Bible has numerous versions, that doesn't mean you should go and try to make claims on the Quran that everyone knows otherwise. If you say the grass is blue, is anyone going to believe you? No, you're just going to embarrass yourself because you're replacing fiction with fact.
    FACT: there is only ONE version of the Quran (meaning the SAME Arabic text, word FOR word) That is KNOWN, seeing that the Quran is the most recited most studied book on the planet. Knock on every Muslim's door and let me know if you find a SINGLE letter that is different.
    TRANSLATION (meaning ANY other language besides Arabic) of the Quran will not be word for word, as the translation is NOT what is recited. In fact, NO Quran can have the translation alone WITHOUT the actual Arabic text. Translations are there just for you to understand what the verses mean.
    And when you say there are different methods of "recitation" that has NOTHING to do with the version of the Quran changing. It just means the PRONUNCIATION is different.
    To make this easier for you as I know you have complication in understanding, so for example taking the word 'potato'. The spelling and definition of that remains the SAME, but you can have people pronouncing it DIFFERENTLY. It doesn't matter if it's pronounced a little differently, just as long as that word still
    remains the same in meaning and spelling. Do you now understand that RECITATION (i.e. PRONUNCIATION) has NOTHING to do with version of the Quran changing?
    Don't bother trying to mess up with facts, because once again you're only going to embarrass yourself, such as you already did by being unable to answer for me a SINGLE question about YOUR own faith.
    See how someone educated can so easily refute you? That's why I always say to people, "Go educate yourselves."
  • Seeing as how you could not answer my questions to you on your OWN very beliefs, all your other "claims" are of course worthless. Quagmire, you know nothing. Just because the Bible has numerous versions, that doesn't mean you should go and try to make claims on the Quran that everyone knows otherwise. If you say the grass is blue, is anyone going to believe you? No, you're just going to embarrass yourself because you're replacing fiction with fact.
    FACT: there is only ONE version of the Quran (meaning the SAME Arabic text, word FOR word) That is KNOWN, seeing that the Quran is the most recited most studied book on the planet. Knock on every Muslim's door and let me know if you find a SINGLE letter that is different.
    TRANSLATION (meaning ANY other language besides Arabic) of the Quran will not be word for word, as the translation is NOT what is recited. In fact, NO Quran can have the translation alone WITHOUT the actual Arabic tect. Translations are there just for you to understand what the verses mean.
    And when you say there are different methods of "recitation" that has NOTHING to do with the version of the Quran changing. It just means the PRONUNCIATION is different.
    To make this easier for you as I know you have complication in understanding, so for example taking the word 'potato'. The spelling and definition of that remains the SAME, but you can have people pronouncing it DIFFERENTLY. It doesn't matter if it's pronounced a little differently, just as long as that word still
    remains the same in meaning and spelling. Do you now understand that RECITATION (i.e. PRONUNCIATION) has NOTHING to do with version of the Quran changing?
    Don't bother trying to mess up with facts, because once again you're only going to embarrass yourself, such as you already did by being unable to answer for me a SINGLE question about YOUR own faith.
    See how someone educated can so easily refute you? That's why I always say to people, "Go educate yourselves."
  • Seeing as how you could not answer my questions to you on your OWN very beliefs, all your other "claims" are of course worthless. Quagmire, you know nothing. Just because the Bible has numerous versions, that doesn't mean you should go and try to make claims on the Quran that everyone knows otherwise. If you say the grass is blue, is anyone going to believe you? No, you're just going to embarrass yourself because you're replacing fiction with fact.
    FACT: there is only ONE version of the Quran (meaning the SAME Arabic text, word FOR word) That is KNOWN, seeing that the Quran is the most recited most studied book on the planet. Knock on every Muslim's door and let me know if you find a SINGLE letter that is different.
    TRANSLATION (meaning ANY other language besides Arabic) of the Quran will not be word for word, as the translation is NOT what is recited. Translation is just for you to understand what the verses mean.
    And when you say there are different methods of "recitation" that has NOTHING to do with the version of the Quran changing. It just means the PRONUNCIATION is different.
    To make this easier for you as I know you have complication in understanding, so for example taking the word 'potato'. The spelling and definition of that remains the SAME, but you can have people pronouncing it DIFFERENTLY. It doesn't matter if it's pronounced a little differently, just as long as that word still
    remains the same in meaning and spelling. Do you now understand that RECITATION (i.e. PRONUNCIATION) has NOTHING to do with version of the Quran changing?
    Don't bother trying to mess up with facts, because once again you're only going to embarrass yourself, such as you already did by being unable to answer for me a SINGLE question about YOUR own faith.
    See how someone educated can so easily refute you? That's why I always say to people, "Go educate yourselves."
  • Seeing as how you could not answer my questions to you on your OWN very beliefs, all your other "claims" are of course worthless. Quagmire, you know nothing. Just because your Bible has numerous of verses, that doesn't mean you should go and try to make claims that everyone knows otherwise. If you say the grass is blue, is anyone going to believe you? No, you're just going to embarrass yourself because you're replacing fiction with fact.
    FACT: there is only ONE version of the Quran (meaning the SAME Arabic text, word FOR word) That is KNOWN, seeing that the Quran is the most recited most studied book on the planet. Knock on every Muslim's door and let me know if you find a SINGLE letter that is different.
    TRANSLATION (meaning ANY other language besides Arabic) of the Quran will not be word for word, as the translation is NOT what is recited. Translation is just for you to understand what the verses mean.
    And when you say there are different methods of "recitation" that has NOTHING to do with the version of the Quran changing. It just means the PRONUNCIATION is different.
    To make this easier for you as I know you have complication in understanding, so for example taking the word 'potato'. The spelling and definition of that remains the SAME, but you can have people pronouncing it DIFFERENTLY. It doesn't matter if it's pronounced a little differently, just as long as that word still
    remains the same in meaning and spelling. Do you now understand that RECITATION (i.e. PRONUNCIATION) has NOTHING to do with version of the Quran changing?
    Don't bother trying to mess up with facts, because once again you're only going to embarrass yourself, such as you already did by being unable to answer for me a SINGLE question about YOUR own faith.
    See how someone educated can so easily refute you? That's why I always say to people, "Go educate yourselves."
  • Beejj
    I reckon that makes it Quagmire 1; Xkon 0.
  • Wow, I'm impressed with the imitation there quagmire. Though you're actually give me the impression that you're not CONVINCED with your beliefs. And by the way, when I said you couldn't "imitate" me, I of course didn't think that there would be an idiot who would take it literally. I meant imitate me in my ways of refuting arguments, which means that I am correct once again, because you could not "imitate" me in REFUTING arguments. And by you trying to "imitate" me by putting random phrases I refuted you with logic according to your own questions, actually makes you look more idiotic than you actually are.

    Do you know why I asked you these questions? Because I KNEW you could NOT answer them. Why? I realized that of course just by observing at how you make statements to things that you actually pretend to have knowledge on, when you don't have a CLUE on what you're talking about. Another reason is because I actually asked just ONE of these questions to a Christian who studies at Church and even HE himself could not answer me. So of course someone such as yourself being unaware of anything at all, could not answer these "simple" questions. Don't worry, you don't have to answer them though. I already know you're not convinced in what you believe in (or at least after I asked you these questions).

    So if anyone else here is convinced with their "teachings", and thinks they can answer the questions I asked quagmire who no doubt failed to answer them, please go ahead and enlighten me with your answers.
    Oh, and quagmire, I'm done talking to you. You are P-A-T-H-E-T-I-C, and a big waste of my time.
  • Wow, I'm impressed with the imitation there quagmire. Though you're actually give me the impression that you're not CONVINCED with your beliefs. And by the way, when I said you couldn't "imitate" me, I of course didn't think that there would be an idiot who would take it literally. I meant imitate me in my ways of refuting arguments, which means that I am correct once again, because you could not "imitate" me in REFUTING arguments. And by you trying to "imitate" me by putting random phrases I refuted you with logic according to your own questions, actually makes you look more idiotic than you actually are. Do you know why I asked you these questions? Because I KNEW you could NOT answer them. Why? I realized that of course just by observing at how you make statements to things that you actually pretend to have knowledge on, when you don't have a CLUE on what you're talking about. Another reason is because I actually asked just ONE of these questions to a Christian who studies at Church and even HE himself could not answer me. So of course someone such as yourself being unaware of anything at all, could not answer these "simple" questions. Don't worry, you don't have to answer them though. I already know you're not convinced in what you believe in (or at least after I asked you these questions).

    So if anyone else here is convinced with their "teachings", and thinks they can answer the questions I asked quagmire who no doubt failed to answer them, please go ahead and enlighten me with your answers.
    Oh, and quagmire, I'm done talking to you. You are P-A-T-H-E-T-I-C, and a big waste of my time.
  • Wow, I'm impressed with the imitation there quagmire. You actually give me the impression that you're not CONVINCED with your beliefs. And by you trying to "imitate" me by putting random phrases I refuted you with logic according to your own questions, actually makes you look more idiotic than you actually are. Do you know why I asked you these questions? Because I KNEW you could NOT answer them. Why? I realized that of course just by observing at how you make statements to things that you actually pretend to have knowledge on, when you don't have a CLUE on what you're talking about. Another reason is because I actually asked just ONE of these questions to a Christian who studies at Church and even HE himself could not answer me. So of course someone such as yourself being unaware of anything at all, could not answer these "simple" questions. Don't worry, you don't have to answer them though. I already know you're not convinced in what you believe in (or at least after I asked you these questions).

    So if anyone else here is convinced with their "teachings", and thinks they can answer the questions I asked quagmire who no doubt failed to answer them, please go ahead and enlighten me with your answers.
    Oh, and quagmire, I'm done talking to you. You are P-A-T-H-E-T-I-C, and a big waste of my time.
  • Wow, I'm impressed with the imitation there quagmire. You actually give me the impression that you're not CONVINCED with your beliefs. And by you trying to "imitate" me by putting random phrases I refuted you with logic according to your own questions, actually makes you look more idiotic than you actually are. Do you know why I asked you these questions? Because I KNEW you could NOT answer them. Why? I realized that of course just by observing at how you make statements to things that you actually pretend to have knowledge on, when you don't have a CLUE on what you're talking about. Another reason is because I actually asked just ONE of these questions to a Christian who studies at Church and even HE himself could not answer me. So of course someone such as yourself being unaware of anything at all, could not answer these "simple" questions. Don't worry, you don't have to answer them though. I already know you're not convinced with anything. So if anyone else here is convinced with their "teachings", and thinks they can answer the questions I asked quagmire who no doubt failed to answer them, please go ahead and enlighten me with your answers.
    Oh, and quagmire, I'm done talking to you. You are P-A-T-H-E-T-I-C, and a big waste of my time.
  • Wow, I'm impressed with the imitation there quagmire. You actually give me the impression that you're not CONVINCED with your beliefs. And by you trying to "imitate" me by putting random phrases I refuted you with logic according to your own questions, actually makes you look more idiotic than you actually are. Do you know why I asked you these questions? Because I KNEW you could NOT answer them. Why? I realized that of course just by observing at how you make statements to things that you actually pretend to have knowledge when you don't have a CLUE what you're talking about. Another reason is because I actually asked just ONE of these questions to a Christian who studies at Church and even HE himself could not answer me. So of course someone such as yourself being unaware of anything at all, could not answer these "simple" questions. Don't worry, you don't have to answer them though. I already know you're not convinced with anything. So if anyone else here is convinced with their "teachings", and thinks they can answer the questions I asked quagmire who no doubt failed to answer them, please go ahead and enlighten me with your answers.
    Oh, and quagmire, I'm done talking to you. You are P-A-T-H-E-T-I-C, and a big waste of my time.
  • Wow, I'm impressed with the imitation there quagmire. You actually give me the impression that you're not CONVINCED with your beliefs. And by you trying to "imitate" me by putting random phrases I refuted you with logic according to your own questions, actually makes you look more idiotic than you actually are. Do you know why I asked you these questions? Because I KNEW you could NOT answer them. Why? I realized of course just by how you make statements to things that you actually pretend to have knowledge when you don't have a CLUE what you're talking about. Another reason is because I actually asked just ONE of these questions to a Christian who studies at Church and even HE himself could not answer me. So of course someone such as yourself being unaware of anything at all, could not answer these "simple" questions. Don't worry, you don't have to answer them though. I already know you're not convinced with anything. So if anyone else here is convinced with their "teachings", and thinks they can answer the questions I asked quagmire who no doubt failed to answer them, please go ahead and enlighten me with your answers.
    Oh, and quagmire, I'm done talking to you. You are P-A-T-H-E-T-I-C, and a big waste of my time.
  • Wow, I'm impressed with the imitation there quagmire. You actually give me the impression that you're not CONVINCED with your beliefs. And by you trying to "imitate" me by putting random phrases I refuted you with logic according to your questions actually makes you look more idiotic than you actually are. Do you know why I asked you these questions? Because I KNEW you could NOT answer them? Why? I realized of course just by how you make statements to things that you actually pretend to have knowledge when you don't have a CLUE what you're talking about. Another reason is because I actually asked just ONE of these questions to a Christian who studies at Church and even HE himself could not answer me. So of course someone such as yourself being unaware of anything at all, could not answer these "simple" questions. Don't worry, you don't have to answer them though. I already know you're not convinced with anything. So if anyone else here is convinced with their "teachings", and thinks they can answer the questions I asked quagmire who no doubt failed to answer them, please go ahead and enlighten me with your answers.
    Oh, and quagmire, I'm done talking to you. You are P-A-T-H-E-T-I-C, and a big waste of my time.
  • You may want to rethink your statement.

    There 20 Versions of the Qur’an today.
    (7 are recorded in the Hadith.)

    The Readers and their Transmitted Versions
    "The Seven" readers

    Nafi...............Warsh & Qalun

    Ibn Kathir...........al-Bazzi & Qunbul

    Abu `Amr al-'Ala' .........Al-Duri & al-Suri

    Ibn `Amir................Hisham & Ibn Dhakwan

    Hamzah.............Khalaf & Khallad

    al-Qisa'i................al-Duri & Abu'l-Harith

    Abu Bakr .................`AsimHafs & Ibn `Ayyash

    "The Three" readers

    Abu Ja`far..................Ibn Wardan & Ibn Jamaz

    Ya`qub al-Hashimi.......Ruways & Rawh

    Khalaf al-Bazzar..............Ishaq & Idris al-Haddad

    There are even more Readers than these but these are considered the most authoritative.

    The Prophet (SAW) said, "It has been revealed like this." And then he added, "This Quran has been revealed to be recited in seven different ways, so recite it which ever way easier for you." (See Hadith No. 514 Vol. 6) Vol. 9 - Apostates - Chapter 9 27/30
  • You may want to rethink your statement.

    There 20 Versions of the Qur’an today.
    (7 are recorded in the Hadith.)

    The Readers and their Transmitted Versions
    "The Seven" readers
    Nafi...............Warsh & Qalun

    Ibn Kathir...........al-Bazzi & Qunbul

    Abu `Amr al-'Ala' .........Al-Duri & al-Suri

    Ibn `Amir................Hisham & Ibn Dhakwan

    Hamzah.............Khalaf & Khallad

    al-Qisa'i................al-Duri & Abu'l-Harith

    Abu Bakr .................`AsimHafs & Ibn `Ayyash

    "The Three" readers

    Abu Ja`far..................Ibn Wardan & Ibn Jamaz

    Ya`qub al-Hashimi.......Ruways & Rawh

    Khalaf al-Bazzar..............Ishaq & Idris al-Haddad

    There are even more Readers than these but these are considered the most authoritative.
  • You may want to rethink your statement.

    There 20 Versions of the Qur’an today.
    (7 are recorded in the Hadith.)

    The Readers and their Transmitted Versions
    "The Seven" readers
    Nafi...............Warsh & Qalun

    bn Kathir...........al-Bazzi & Qunbul

    Abu `Amr al-'Ala' .........Al-Duri & al-Suri

    Ibn `Amir................Hisham & Ibn Dhakwan

    Hamzah.............Khalaf & Khallad

    al-Qisa'i................al-Duri & Abu'l-Harith

    Abu Bakr .................`AsimHafs & Ibn `Ayyash

    "The Three" readers

    Abu Ja`far..................Ibn Wardan & Ibn Jamaz

    Ya`qub al-Hashimi.......Ruways & Rawh

    Khalaf al-Bazzar..............Ishaq & Idris al-Haddad

    There are even more Readers than these but these are considered the most authoritative.
  • You may want to rethink your statement.

    There 20 Versions of the Qur’an today.
    (7 are recorded in the Hadith.)

    The Readers and their Transmitted Versions
    "The Seven" readers
    Nafi...............Warsh & Qalun

    bn Kathir...........al-Bazzi & Qunbul

    Abu `Amr al-'Ala' .........Al-Duri & al-Suri

    bn `Amir................Hisham & Ibn Dhakwan

    Hamzah.............Khalaf & Khallad

    al-Qisa'i................al-Duri & Abu'l-Harith

    Abu Bakr .................`AsimHafs & Ibn `Ayyash

    "The Three" readers

    Abu Ja`far..................Ibn Wardan & Ibn Jamaz

    Ya`qub al-Hashimi.......Ruways & Rawh

    Khalaf al-Bazzar..............Ishaq & Idris al-Haddad

    There are even more Readers than these but these are considered the most authoritative.
  • You may want to rethink your statement.

    There 20 Versions of the Qur’an today.
    (7 are recorded in the Hadith.)

    The Readers and their Transmitted Versions
    "The Seven" readers
    Nafi` Warsh & Qalun

    Ibn Kathir al-Bazzi & Qunbul

    Abu `Amr al-'Ala' Al-Duri & al-Suri

    Ibn `Amir Hisham & Ibn Dhakwan

    Hamzah Khalaf & Khallad

    al-Qisa'i al-Duri & Abu'l-Harith

    Abu Bakr `AsimHafs & Ibn `Ayyash

    "The Three" readers

    Abu Ja`far Ibn Wardan & Ibn Jamaz

    Ya`qub al-HashimiRuways & Rawh

    Khalaf al-BazzarIshaq & Idris al-Haddad


    There are even more Readers than these but these are considered the most authoritative.
  • As for your attempts to bring forth every Muslim's "chosen" verses in the New Testament, I will be more than happy to interpret it for you.

    1)If Jesus is the Son of God, does that make Jesus the Father, the Son, AND the God of Mary?
    Whats it to you. If you are capable of asking questions then you are capable of answering them yourself.

    2) When Jesus (or God) was inside Mary's womb, WHO was controlling the Earth? (that being the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost being in Mary's womb as they are claimed to be ONE).
    Do you have trouble understanding the English langauge. You read and write English, then read the New Testament.

    3) When Jesus died, did God (the Father) die or the Son of God die? (The only correct answer would have to be BOTH seeing as they are ONE. So if you choose one of them it means they are two separate Gods)
    Again, whats it to you. Why is it of anyone's concern what Christians believe. Again, what's so disputing about this?

    4) Why did Jesus cry out "Father, why hast thou forsaken me?" while being crucified if he is the "Father and Son" in ONE? And how could humans do INJUSTICE to a God (if God is the one that CREATED these humans?)
    I knew you were ignorant, but I didn't think you were ridiculous. Please provide me evidence in the Bible (just ONE verse) that supports your claim.

    If you're going to ask me a rhetorical question, at least do some thinking.
  • As for your attempts to bring forth every Muslim's "chosen" verses in the New Testament, I will be more than happy to interpret it for you.

    1)If Jesus is the Son of God, does that make Jesus the Father, the Son, AND the God of Mary?
    Whats it to you. If you are capable of asking questions then you capable of answering them yourself.

    2) When Jesus (or God) was inside Mary's womb, WHO was controlling the Earth? (that being the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost being in Mary's womb as they are claimed to be ONE).
    Do you have trouble understanding the English langauge. You read and write English, then read the New Testament.

    3) When Jesus died, did God (the Father) die or the Son of God die? (The only correct answer would have to be BOTH seeing as they are ONE. So if you choose one of them it means they are two separate Gods)
    Again, whats it to you. Why is it of anyone's concern what Christians believe. Again, what's so disputing about this?

    4) Why did Jesus cry out "Father, why hast thou forsaken me?" while being crucified if he is the "Father and Son" in ONE? And how could humans do INJUSTICE to a God (if God is the one that CREATED these humans?)
    I knew you were ignorant, but I didn't think you were ridiculous. Please provide me evidence in the Bible (just ONE verse) that supports your claim.

    If you're going to ask me a rhetorical question, at least do some thinking.
  • I find no difficulty in providing you the answers. And of course I will only prove you wrong once again. All I'm asking of you now is to use your brain as I explain.
    You state: How, then, did a supposed "Muslim scholar of the Bible" as he describes himself, come to make such a blunder as to confuse the mother of Samuel with the mother of Mary?"

    Why you mention this, brings about the question why do you bring up the "Mother of Samuel" when neither "Hannah" nor the name "Samuel" appear in the Quran. You obviously don't know how to make your point clear. The only thing that is known about Mary in the Quran is that she is the daughter of Imran and the mother of Jesus.

    "The reason is that the Qur'an itself confuses the two women and, although it does not name Hannah"

    Do you realize you just contradicted what YOU just said? You just stated that the Quran "confuses" two women, even though you agree that the Quran only mentions ONE woman (Mary). How can the Quran confuse TWO women if it only mentions ONE? It's not the Quran that doesn't make sense, it's you the doesn't.

    "Furthermore it may well be asked why Mary is called the "sister of Aaron""

    Another thing you obviously don't quite understand, is that in Islam people can be "brothers" and "sister" in FAITH and not only by blood. Both Christians and Muslims know that Mary of course was living her life very much as close to a Nun; as she is a virgin and only spent her life worshiping God in the temple. The verse [19:28] is in reference to what you're saying as "Aaron" being the brother of "Mary". What you are unaware of is that the Quran was actually not referring to Aaron the brother of Moses, but Aaron (a Priest if you want to call him) the one in CHARGE of the same temple that Mary was also in. Just like as now you have Priests in charge of a church and the nuns within it. Don't you refer to priests as "Father" and nuns as "Sisters". Does that mean you are RELATED to them by blood? You say it regarding to "family" in faith.
    So the man in charge of the temple that Mary was in, had the name "Aaron". The Quran states Mary being "sister in faith" to Aaron, not by blood. Here is the verse:

    Quran [19:28]--- "O descendant of Aaron (who was in charge of the temple and his offspring after him, and of them Mary who grew up in the temple, so she she is a sister in faith), your father was not a bad man, nor was your mother unchaste."

    And let's just ASSUME that this Aaron was referred to as the brother of Moses. Even if he was, Mary would STILL be sister of Aaron in "Faith". So your claim that Imran is the father of Mary AND Aaron is WRONG. And I have already proven that to you providing you with all these examples.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Now that you have made it obvious you're only trying to keep me busy by responding to you, why don't you EXPLAIN these things to me in according to your logic in Christianity.
    Christians believe in the Trinity, claiming that God is the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost all in ONE. Of course if you claim that God is ONE, than there are NOT 3 separate Gods at different times. So for example the Father who could have been doing something, means that the Son is not doing something else, as the Son and Father are the same. Having said that, answer this for me:

    1)If Jesus is the Son of God, does that make Jesus the Father, the Son, AND the God of Mary?
    And If that's the case, why is Mary only considered a HUMAN woman and NOT a Goddess if she gave birth to a a GOD?
    2) When Jesus (or God) was inside Mary's womb, WHO was controlling the Earth? (that being the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost being in Mary's womb as they are claimed to be ONE)
    3) When Jesus died, did God (the Father) die or the Son of God die? (The only correct answer would have to be BOTH seeing as they are ONE. So if you choose one of them it means they are two separate Gods)
    4) Why did Jesus cry out "Father, why hast thou forsaken me?" while being crucified if he is the "Father and Son" in ONE? And how could humans do INJUSTICE to a God (if God is the one that CREATED these humans?)
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    These are just questions regarding your beliefs (not to mention the plenty of questions I have regarding the Bible). The questions may seem like a lot, but seeing as how you are a Christian with knowledge of your faith, to you these questions should be a piece of cake, right?
    And I await for your answers.
  • How, then, did a supposed "Muslim scholar of the Bible" as he describes himself, come to make such a blunder as to confuse the mother of Samuel with the mother of Mary? The reason is that the Qur'an itself confuses the two women and, although it does not name Hannah, nevertheless records the anachronism which confounds the two women (Sura Al Imran 3:35-36). (Some of the works of Hadith openly say that the name of Mary's mother was indeed Hannah and both ancient and modern commentators of the Qur'an accept that this was her real name.)

    In fact the whole story of Mary's birth and dedication in the Qur'an is a strange confusion of various passages of the Bible. Mary herself is clearly confused with Elijah, for a start, for he was the prophet confined to solitude who was fed by ravens that brought him food from above (1 Kings 17:6 - the Qur'an states that Mary, too, was fed from heaven in Sura Al Imran 3:37). Nevertheless it is the name given to Mary's mother, namely Hannah, that really gives us the clue as to where the composers of this story obtained their material. We should perhaps at this stage mention that the original story is first found in an apocryphal work entitled "Proto-evangelium of James the Less" and that it was simply taken over by Muhammad into the Qur'an without him being aware of its mystical origin.

    We have seen that ukhta Harun in the Qur'an must mean the blood-sister of Aaron and this is precisely what Miriam was. Muhammad clearly confused Maryam, the mother of Jesus, with this woman. Furthermore the evidence is strongly substantiated by the name given to Mary's father in the Qur'an. In the Bible we read that Jochebed "bore to Amram, Aaron and Moses and Miriam their sister" (Numbers 26:59). So the father of Aaron and Miriam was a man named Amram - and yet this is the very name given to the father of Mary, the mother of Jesus, in the Qur'an! He is called Imran, the Arabic form of Amram (as Ibrahim is the Arabic form of Abraham). Mary, accordingly, is expressly called Maryamabnata Imran - "Mary, daughter of Imran" - in the Qur'an (Sura al-Tahrim 66:12). So she is not only called the sister of Aaron but also the daughter of Imran. We therefore have a double-proof of the fact that she has been confused with Miriam, the true sister of Aaron and daughter of Amram.

    Furthermore it may well be asked why Mary is called the "sister of Aaron" in the Qur'an if she is not confused with Miriam. We have shown that she was in no way descended from him and no more closely related to him than to any other patriarch or figurehead of Israel. Accordingly, what relevance is there in the appellation? Why was she called after Aaron rather than Moses, Elijah, Solomon, Joseph or some other prophet?

    Not only can we find no relevance in the title, the passage quoted above from the Book of Hebrews also makes it plain that it is, on the contrary, all-conceived and quite inappropriate.

    The second point worth considering is that there is a whole chapter in the Qur'an, Sura Maryam (Sura 19), named in honour of Mary, the mother of Jesus Christ. He would have done even better to disclose that Mary is the only woman expressly mentioned by name in the Qur'an, and that on many occasions. No other woman is so named. Muhammad did well to give such prominence to her, but surely it is clear that Mary was only worthy of such honour because she was the mother of the most prominent man who ever lived, namely Jesus Christ.

    xkon is thus totally unqualified and unfit to interpret the Bible. How is it that the Christian Church has universally held that Jesus is the eternal Son of God if the Bible does not teach this? xkon's attempts to disprove this do not arise from a sincere assessment of Biblical teaching but from a presumption that it should not yield such a doctrine. It is quite clear who is reading the book with blinders.

    It is the Islamic propagandist whose ability to read the Bible sincerely and objectively is blinded by his dogmatic presumption that it should not teach that Jesus is the Son of God.
  • I find no difficulty in providing you the answers. And of course I will only prove you wrong once again. All I'm asking of you now is to use your brain as I explain.
    You state: How, then, did a supposed "Muslim scholar of the Bible" as he describes himself, come to make such a blunder as to confuse the mother of Samuel with the mother of Mary?"

    Why you mention this, brings about the question why do you bring up the "Mother of Samuel" when neither "Hannah" nor the name "Samuel" appear in the Quran. You obviously don't know how to make your point clear. The only thing that is known about Mary in the Quran is that she is the daughter of Imran and the mother of Jesus.

    "The reason is that the Qur'an itself confuses the two women and, although it does not name Hannah"

    Do you realize you just contradicted what YOU just said? You just stated that the Quran "confuses" two women, even though you agree that the Quran only mentions ONE woman (Mary). How can the Quran confuse TWO women if it only mentions ONE? It's not the Quran that doesn't make sense, it's you the doesn't.

    "Furthermore it may well be asked why Mary is called the "sister of Aaron""

    Another thing you obviously don't quite understand, is that in Islam people can be "brothers" and "sister" in FAITH and not only by blood. Both Christians and Muslims know that Mary of course was living her life very much as close to a Nun; as she is a virgin and only spent her life worshiping God in the temple. The verse [19:28] is in reference to what you're saying as "Aaron" being the brother of "Mary". What you are unaware of is that the Quran was actually not referring to Aaron the brother of Moses, but Aaron (a Priest if you want to call him) the one in CHARGE of the same temple that Mary was also in. Just like as now you have Priests in charge of a church and the nuns within it. Don't you refer to priests as "Father" and nuns as "Sisters". Does that mean you are RELATED to them by blood? You say it regarding to "family" in faith.
    So the man in charge of the temple that Mary was in, had the name "Aaron". The Quran states Mary being "sister in faith" to Aaron, not by blood. Here is the verse:

    Quran [19:28]--- "O descendant of Aaron (who was in charge of the temple and his offspring after him, and of them Mary who grew up in the temple, so she she is a sister in faith), your father was not a bad man, nor was your mother unchaste."

    And let's just ASSUME that this Aaron was referred to as the brother of Moses. Even if he was, Mary would STILL be sister of Aaron in "Faith". So your claim that Imran is the father of Mary AND Aaron is WRONG. And I have already proven that to you providing you with all these examples.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Now that you have made it obvious you're only trying to keep me busy by responding to you, why don't you EXPLAIN these things to me in according to your logic in Christianity.
    Christians believe in the Trinity, claiming that God is the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost all in ONE. Of course if you claim that God is ONE, than there are NOT 3 separate Gods at different times. So for example the Father who could have been doing something, means that the Son is not doing something else, as the Son and Father are the same. So in regards to that, answer this for me:

    1)If Jesus is the Son of God, does that make Jesus the Father, the Son, AND the God of Mary?
    And If that's the case, why is Mary only considered a HUMAN woman and NOT a Goddess if she gave birth to a a GOD?
    2) When Jesus (or God) was inside Mary's womb, WHO was controlling the Earth? (that being the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost being in Mary's womb as they are claimed to be ONE)
    3) When Jesus died, did God (the Father) die or the Son of God die? (The only correct answer would have to be BOTH seeing as they are ONE. So if you choose one of them it means they are two separate Gods)
    4) Why did Jesus cry out "Father, why hast thou forsaken me?" while being crucified if he is the "Father and Son" in ONE? And how could humans do INJUSTICE to a God (if God is the one that CREATED these humans?)
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    These are just questions regarding your beliefs (not to mention the plenty of questions I have regarding the Bible). The questions may seem like a lot, but seeing as how you are a Christian with knowledge of your faith, to you these questions should be a piece of cake, right?
    And I await for your answers.
  • I find no difficulty in providing you the answers. And of course I will only prove you wrong once again. All I'm asking of you now is to use your brain as I explain.
    You state: How, then, did a supposed "Muslim scholar of the Bible" as he describes himself, come to make such a blunder as to confuse the mother of Samuel with the mother of Mary?"

    Why you mention this, brings about the question why do you bring up the "Mother of Samuel" when neither "Hannah" nor the name "Samuel" appear in the Quran. You obviously don't know how to make your point clear. The only thing that is known about Mary in the Quran is that she is the daughter of Imran and the mother of Jesus.

    "The reason is that the Qur'an itself confuses the two women and, although it does not name Hannah"

    Do you realize you just contradicted what YOU just said? You just stated that the Quran "confuses" two women, even though you agree that the Quran only mentions ONE woman (Mary). How can the Quran confuse TWO women if it only mentions ONE? It's not the Quran that doesn't make sense, it's you the doesn't.

    "Furthermore it may well be asked why Mary is called the "sister of Aaron""

    Another thing you obviously don't quite understand, is that in Islam people can be "brothers" and "sister" in FAITH and not only by blood. Both Christians and Muslims know that Mary of course was living her life very much as close to a Nun; as she is a virgin and only spent her life worshiping God in the temple. The verse [19:28] is in reference to what you're saying as "Aaron" being the brother of "Mary". What you are unaware of is that the Quran was actually not referring to Aaron the brother of Moses, but Aaron (a Priest if you want to call him) the one in CHARGE of the temple. Just like as now you have Priests in charge of a church and the nuns within it. Don't you refer to priests as "Father" and nuns as "Sisters". Does that mean you are RELATED to them by blood? You say it regarding to "family" in faith.
    So the man in charge of the temple that Mary was in, had the name "Aaron". The Quran states Mary being "sister in faith" to Aaron, not by blood. Here is the verse:

    Quran [19:28]--- "O descendant of Aaron (who was in charge of the temple and his offspring after him, and of them Mary who grew up in the temple, so she she is a sister in faith), your father was not a bad man, nor was your mother unchaste."

    And let's just ASSUME that this Aaron was referred to as the brother of Moses. Even if he was, Mary would STILL be sister of Aaron in "Faith". So your claim that Imran is the father of Mary AND Aaron is WRONG. And I have already proven that to you providing you with all these examples.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Now that you have made it obvious you're only trying to keep me busy by responding to you, why don't you EXPLAIN these things to me in according to your logic in Christianity.
    Christians believe in the Trinity, claiming that God is the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost all in ONE. Of course if you claim that God is ONE, than there are NOT 3 separate Gods at different times. So for example the Father who could have been doing something, means that the Son is not doing something else, as the Son and Father are the same. So in regards to that, answer this for me:

    1)If Jesus is the Son of God, does that make Jesus the Father, the Son, AND the God of Mary?
    And If that's the case, why is Mary only considered a HUMAN woman and NOT a Goddess if she gave birth to a a GOD?
    2) When Jesus (or God) was inside Mary's womb, WHO was controlling the Earth? (that being the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost being in Mary's womb as they are claimed to be ONE)
    3) When Jesus died, did God (the Father) die or the Son of God die? (The only correct answer would have to be BOTH seeing as they are ONE. So if you choose one of them it means they are two separate Gods)
    4) Why did Jesus cry out "Father, why hast thou forsaken me?" while being crucified if he is the "Father and Son" in ONE? And how could humans do INJUSTICE to a God (if God is the one that CREATED these humans?)
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    These are just questions regarding your beliefs (not to mention the plenty of questions I have regarding the Bible). The questions may seem like a lot, but seeing as how you are a Christian with knowledge of your faith, to you these questions should be a piece of cake, right?
    And I await for your answers.
  • I find no difficulty in providing you the answers. And of course I will only prove you wrong once again. All I'm asking of you now is to use your brain as I explain.
    You state: How, then, did a supposed "Muslim scholar of the Bible" as he describes himself, come to make such a blunder as to confuse the mother of Samuel with the mother of Mary?"

    Why you mention this, brings about the question why do you bring up the "Mother of Samuel" when neither "Hannah" nor the name "Samuel" appear in the Quran. You obviously don't know how to make your point clear. The only thing that is known about Mary in the Quran is that she is the daughter of Imran and the mother of Jesus.

    "The reason is that the Qur'an itself confuses the two women and, although it does not name Hannah"

    Do you realize you just contradicted what YOU just said? You just stated that the Quran "confuses" two women, even though you agree that the Quran only mentions ONE woman (Mary). How can the Quran confuse TWO women if it only mentions ONE? It's not the Quran that doesn't make sense, it's you the doesn't.

    "Furthermore it may well be asked why Mary is called the "sister of Aaron""

    Another thing you obviously don't quite understand, is that in Islam people can be "brothers" and "sister" in FAITH and not only by blood. Both Christians and Muslims know that Mary of course was living her life very much as close to a Nun. As she is a virgin and only spent her life worshiping God in the temple. The verse [19:28] is in reference to what you're saying as "Aaron" being the brother of "Mary". What you are unaware of is that the Quran was actually not referring to Aaron the brother of Moses, but Aaron (a Priest if you want to call him) the one in CHARGE of the temple. Just like as now you have Priests in charge of a church and the nuns within it. Don't you refer to priests as "Father" and nuns as "Sisters". Does that mean you are RELATED to them by blood? You say it regarding to "family" in faith.
    So the man in charge of the temple that Mary was in, had the name "Aaron". The Quran states Mary being "sister in faith" to Aaron, not by blood. Here is the verse:

    Quran [19:28]--- "O descendant of Aaron (who was in charge of the temple and his offspring after him, and of them Mary who grew up in the temple, so she she is a sister in faith), your father was not a bad man, nor was your mother unchaste."

    And let's just ASSUME that this Aaron was referred to as the brother of Moses. Even if he was, Mary would STILL be sister of Aaron in "Faith". So your claim that Imran is the father of Mary AND Aaron is WRONG. And I have already proven that to you providing you with all these examples.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Now that you have made it obvious you're only trying to keep me busy by responding to you, why don't you EXPLAIN these things to me in according to your logic in Christianity.
    Christians believe in the Trinity, claiming that God is the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost all in ONE. Of course if you claim that God is ONE, than there are NOT 3 separate Gods at different times. So for example the Father who could have been doing something, means that the Son is not doing something else, as the Son and Father are the same. So in regards to that, answer this for me:

    1)If Jesus is the Son of God, does that make Jesus the Father, the Son, AND the God of Mary?
    And If that's the case, why is Mary only considered a HUMAN woman and NOT a Goddess if she gave birth to a a GOD?
    2) When Jesus (or God) was inside Mary's womb, WHO was controlling the Earth? (that being the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost being in Mary's womb as they are claimed to be ONE)
    3) When Jesus died, did God (the Father) die or the Son of God die? (The only correct answer would have to be BOTH seeing as they are ONE. So if you choose one of them it means they are two separate Gods)
    4) Why did Jesus cry out "Father, why hast thou forsaken me?" while being crucified if he is the "Father and Son" in ONE? And how could humans do INJUSTICE to a God (if God is the one that CREATED these humans?)
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    These are just questions regarding your beliefs (not to mention the plenty of questions I have regarding the Bible). The questions may seem like a lot, but seeing as how you are a Christian with knowledge of your faith, to you these questions should be a piece of cake, right?
    And I await for your answers.
  • Mic
    I like u xkon!
    You're a very learned man!
  • hellosnackbar
    Listen Mic either say something orSTFU.
    Playing psychophant to the demented dogma queen xcon is a waste of print.
    No one likes obsequious toads especially when all they do is unctiously echo abomination.
    And don't use textspeak it's pathognomic of the semiliterate idiot.
  • hellosnackbar
    Xcon argues only from authority(that of the corrosive koran).
    She keeps boring us with facile quotes from a useless tome that has no authority at at all.
    Maybe we should counter non arguements with quotes from Grimm's fairy tales as a counter authority of the "trite"and irrelevant,
    No doubt we'll be treated to more demented dogma from the religion of the damned.
    As I've said before dogma trumps reason for the pathologically insane.
    Keep whining"It must be true it's in the Koran"and the feeble minded will be eventually convinced.
    Four legs good two legs bad !
    Hellosnackbar! Hellosnackbar! ad nauseum.
  • Beejj
    Well said, Hellosnackbar, although the victims of dogmatic "teaching" can never understand your point. "There's none so blind ................."

    So xkon has an admirer! Xkon is "a very learned man". I shudder to think what goes on in Mic's mind that allows him to reach such a conclusion. Consider this business about the St Valentine's Day ban, for instance, a ban xkon finds entirely reasonable, arguing that Muslims should not be expected to observe Christian holidays and the like. Fair enough. I have no argument with that, BUT THIS IS NOT THE ISSUE! Get that, Mic??? Understand? No? Allow me to explain. The ban does not mean Muslims are not allowed to celebrate the day: it means that NOBODY in that particular country is allowed to. Suppose non-Muslim countries were as bullying as Muslim authorities are in their own lands: they would, by analogy, have every right to ban celebration of Ramadan. Would xkon and other "learned men" be content to accept this? Of course not. This is what is known as double standards, although Muslims are happy to accept them provided they do not get the thin edge of the wedge. Think before you write such idiocy, Mic.
  • I find no difficulty in providing you the answers. And of course I will only prove you wrong once again. All I'm asking of you now is to use your brain as I explain.
    You state: How, then, did a supposed "Muslim scholar of the Bible" as he describes himself, come to make such a blunder as to confuse the mother of Samuel with the mother of Mary?"

    Why you mention this, brings about the question why do you bring up the "Mother of Samuel" when neither "Hannah" nor the name "Samuel" appear in the Quran. You obviously don't know how to make your point clear. The only thing that is known about Mary in the Quran is that she is the daughter of Imran and the mother of Jesus.

    "The reason is that the Qur'an itself confuses the two women and, although it does not name Hannah"

    Do you realize you just contradicted what YOU just said? You just stated that the Quran "confuses" two women, even though you agree that the Quran only mentions ONE woman (Mary). How can the Quran confuse TWO women if it only mentions ONE? It's not the Quran that doesn't make sense, it's you the doesn't.

    "Furthermore it may well be asked why Mary is called the "sister of Aaron""

    Another thing you obviously don't quite get is that in Islam, people can be "brothers" and "sister" in FAITH and not only by blood. Both Christians and Muslims know that Mary of course was living her life very much as close to a Nun. As she is a virgin and only spent her life worshiping God in the temple. The verse [19:28] is in reference to what you're saying as "Aaron" being the brother of "Mary". What you are unaware of is that the Quran was actually not referring to Aaron the brother of Moses, but Aaron (a Priest if you want to call him) the one in CHARGE of the temple. Just like as now you have Priests in charge of a church and the nuns within it. Don't you refer to priests as "Father" and nuns as "Sisters". Does that mean you are RELATED to them by blood? You say it regarding to "family" in faith.
    So the man in charge of the temple that Mary was in, had the name "Aaron". The Quran states Mary being "sister in faith" to Aaron, not by blood. Here is the verse:

    Quran [19:28]--- "O descendant of Aaron (who was in charge of the temple and his offspring after him, and of them Mary who grew up in the temple, so she she is a sister in faith), your father was not a bad man, nor was your mother unchaste."

    And let's just ASSUME that this Aaron was referred to as the brother of Moses. Even if he was, Mary would STILL be sister of Aaron in "Faith". So your claim that Imran is the father of Mary AND Aaron is WRONG. And I have already proven that to you providing you with all these examples.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Now that you have made it obvious you're only trying to keep me busy by responding to you, why don't you EXPLAIN these things to me in according to your logic in Christianity.
    Christians believe in the Trinity, claiming that God is the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost all in ONE. Of course if you claim that God is ONE, than there are NOT 3 separate Gods at different times. So for example the Father who could have been doing something, means that the Son is not doing something else, as the Son and Father are the same. So in regards to that, answer this for me:

    1)If Jesus is the Son of God, does that make Jesus the Father, the Son, AND the God of Mary?
    And If that's the case, why is Mary only considered a HUMAN woman and NOT a Goddess if she gave birth to a a GOD?
    2) When Jesus (or God) was inside Mary's womb, WHO was controlling the Earth? (that being the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost being in Mary's womb as they are claimed to be ONE)
    3) When Jesus died, did God (the Father) die or the Son of God die? (The only correct answer would have to be BOTH seeing as they are ONE. So if you choose one of them it means they are two separate Gods)
    4) Why did Jesus cry out "Father, why hast thou forsaken me?" while being crucified if he is the "Father and Son" in ONE? And how could humans do INJUSTICE to a God (if God is the one that CREATED these humans?)
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    These are just questions regarding your beliefs (not to mention the plenty of questions I have regarding the Bible). The questions may seem like a lot, but seeing as how you are a Christian with knowledge of your faith, to you these questions should be a piece of cake, right?
    And I await for your answers.
  • How, then, did a supposed "Muslim scholar of the Bible" as he describes himself, come to make such a blunder as to confuse the mother of Samuel with the mother of Mary? The reason is that the Qur'an itself confuses the two women and, although it does not name Hannah, nevertheless records the anachronism which confounds the two women (Sura Al Imran 3:35-36). (Some of the works of Hadith openly say that the name of Mary's mother was indeed Hannah and both ancient and modern commentators of the Qur'an accept that this was her real name.)

    In fact the whole story of Mary's birth and dedication in the Qur'an is a strange confusion of various passages of the Bible. Mary herself is clearly confused with Elijah, for a start, for he was the prophet confined to solitude who was fed by ravens that brought him food from above (1 Kings 17:6 - the Qur'an states that Mary, too, was fed from heaven in Sura Al Imran 3:37). Nevertheless it is the name given to Mary's mother, namely Hannah, that really gives us the clue as to where the composers of this story obtained their material. We should perhaps at this stage mention that the original story is first found in an apocryphal work entitled "Proto-evangelium of James the Less" and that it was simply taken over by Muhammad into the Qur'an without him being aware of its mystical origin.

    We have seen that ukhta Harun in the Qur'an must mean the blood-sister of Aaron and this is precisely what Miriam was. Muhammad clearly confused Maryam, the mother of Jesus, with this woman. Furthermore the evidence is strongly substantiated by the name given to Mary's father in the Qur'an. In the Bible we read that Jochebed "bore to Amram, Aaron and Moses and Miriam their sister" (Numbers 26:59). So the father of Aaron and Miriam was a man named Amram - and yet this is the very name given to the father of Mary, the mother of Jesus, in the Qur'an! He is called Imran, the Arabic form of Amram (as Ibrahim is the Arabic form of Abraham). Mary, accordingly, is expressly called Maryamabnata Imran - "Mary, daughter of Imran" - in the Qur'an (Sura al-Tahrim 66:12). So she is not only called the sister of Aaron but also the daughter of Imran. We therefore have a double-proof of the fact that she has been confused with Miriam, the true sister of Aaron and daughter of Amram.

    Furthermore it may well be asked why Mary is called the "sister of Aaron" in the Qur'an if she is not confused with Miriam. We have shown that she was in no way descended from him and no more closely related to him than to any other patriarch or figurehead of Israel. Accordingly, what relevance is there in the appellation? Why was she called after Aaron rather than Moses, Elijah, Solomon, Joseph or some other prophet?

    Not only can we find no relevance in the title, the passage quoted above from the Book of Hebrews also makes it plain that it is, on the contrary, all-conceived and quite inappropriate.

    The second point worth considering is that there is a whole chapter in the Qur'an, Sura Maryam (Sura 19), named in honour of Mary, the mother of Jesus Christ. He would have done even better to disclose that Mary is the only woman expressly mentioned by name in the Qur'an, and that on many occasions. No other woman is so named. Muhammad did well to give such prominence to her, but surely it is clear that Mary was only worthy of such honour because she was the mother of the most prominent man who ever lived, namely Jesus Christ.

    xkon is thus totally unqualified and unfit to interpret the Bible. How is it that the Christian Church has universally held that Jesus is the eternal Son of God if the Bible does not teach this? xkon's attempts to disprove this do not arise from a sincere assessment of Biblical teaching but from a presumption that it should not yield such a doctrine. It is quite clear who is reading the book with blinders. It is the Islamic propagandist whose ability to read the Bible sincerely and objectively is blinded by his dogmatic presumption that it should not teach that Jesus is the Son of God.beside him will, from an Islamic point of view, fall into an unforgivable sin (like the sin against the Holy Spirit in Christianity).
  • Kal El, meaning the same youtube links this pathetic site also provides as well? Or is it only "fallible" when this worthless site posts youtube links? I'm just curious to know.
  • Kal El, meaning the same youtube links this pathetic site also provides as well? Or is it only "fallible" when this worthless site posts youtube links? I'm just only curious to know.
  • Kal El, meaning the same youtube links this pathetic site also provides as well? Or is it suddenly "fallible" when this worthless site only posts youtube links? I'm just only curious to know.
  • Kal El, meaning the same youtube links this pathetic site also provides as well? Or is it suddenly "fallible" when this worthless site only posts youtube links? I'm just only curious to know.
  • Kal El, meaning the same youtube links this pathetic site also provides as well? Or is it suddenly "fallible" when this worthless site only posts it? I'm just only curious to know.
  • Kal El, meaning the same youtube links this pathetic site also provides as well? Or is it suddenly "fallible" when this worthless site only posts it?
  • Kal El, meaning the same youtube links this pathetic site also provides as well? Or does it only become "fallible" when this worthless site only posts it?
  • Kal El, meaning the same youtube links this pathetic site also provides as well? Or does it only become "fallible" when this worthless posts it?
  • Kal El, meaning the same youtube links this pathetic and worthless site also provides?
  • And who's to say that I don't? You being the ignorant person you are, you obviously wouldn't be aware of the preachings being sent out to Muslims to follow the teachings of Islam. Of course you wouldn't know because if you just spent HALF the time you did other than sending out garbage information to others, you'd actually learn something new. Although I have to admit that the idiots that tried effortlessly to send out false propaganda against Muslims, has actually gotten non-Muslims in droves of learning about Islam. Wonder why THOUSANDS converted to Islam after 9/11? And why more thousands are doing so until this very day?

    And I'm just curious where you got this fantasy number of "4 billion" people. Are you just a failure at math or is your ego speaking? (More like in your imaginary dreams). It's a relief to know that there are more civilized, educated human beings out there, because I can only imagine if the majority of the world's population happened to be anywhere as near as your revolting racism and ignorance. And this already proves it as people who do educate themselves and refuse to be spoon-fed by the media, are coming upon different information, with some in the end even embracing Islam, making it of course the most practiced and fastest growing religion in the world. Your denials prove that you don't even want to believe in something that's statistically proven as FACTS. Make yourself useful and try figuring that out.
    Keep living in denial. It won't and hasn't gotten you far anyways.
  • And who's to say that I don't? You being the ignorant person you are, you obviously wouldn't be aware of the preachings being sent out to Muslims to follow the teachings of Islam. Of course you wouldn't know because if you just spent HALF the time you did other than sending out garbage information to others, you'd actually learn something new. Although I have to admit that the idiots that tried effortlessly to send out false propaganda against Muslims, has actually gotten non-Muslims in droves of learning about Islam. Wonder why THOUSANDS converted to Islam after 9/11? And why more thousands are doing so until this very day?

    And I'm just curious where you got this fantasy number of "4 billion" people. Are you just a failure at math or is your ego speaking? (More like in your imaginary dreams). It's a relief that there are more civilized, educated human beings out there, because I can only imagine if the majority of the world's population happened to be anywhere as near as your revolting racism and ignorance. And this already proves it as people who do educate themselves and refuse to be spoon-fed by the media, are coming upon different information, with some in the end even embracing Islam, making it of course the most practiced and fastest growing religion in the world. Your denials prove that you don't even want to believe in something that's statistically proven as FACTS. Make yourself useful and try figuring that out.
    Keep living in denial. It won't and hasn't gotten you far anyways.
  • Yeah sure, and like this worthless site is even any more reliable? Best way to get your resources, right? Keep telling yourself that. Whatever helps you sleep at night.
  • Yeah sure, and like this worthless site is even any more reliable? Best way to get your resources, isn't it? Keep telling yourself that. Whatever helps you sleep at night.
  • Yeah sure, and like this worthless site is even any more reliable? Best way to get your resources, isn't it? Do you only like to deny what you can't believe actually exists? But whatever helps you sleep at night.
  • And who's to say that I don't? You being the ignorant person, you obviously wouldn't be aware of the preachings being sent out to Muslims to follow the teachings of Islam. Of course you wouldn't know because if you just spent HALF the time you did other than sending out garbage information to others, you'd actually learn something new. Although I have to admit that the idiots that tried effortlessly to send out false propaganda against Muslims, has actually gotten non-Muslims in droves of learning about Islam. Wonder why THOUSANDS converted to Islam after 9/11? And why more thousands are doing so until this very day?

    And I'm just curious where you got this fantasy number of "4 billion" people. Are you just a failure at math or is your ego speaking? (More like in your imaginary dreams). It's a relief that there are more civilized, educated human beings out there, because I can only imagine if the majority of the world's population happened to be anywhere as near as your revolting racism and ignorance. And this already proves it as people who do educate themselves and refuse to be spoon-fed by the media, are coming upon different information, with some in the end even embracing Islam, making it of course the most practiced and fastest growing religion in the world. Your denials prove that you don't even want to believe in something that's statistically proven as FACTS. Make yourself useful and try figuring that out.
    Keep living in denial. It won't and hasn't gotten you far anyways.
  • And who's to say that I don't? You being the ignorant person, you obviously wouldn't be aware of the preachings being sent out to Muslims to follow the teachings of Islam. Of course you wouldn't know because if you just spent HALF the time you did other than sending out garbage information to others, you'd actually learn something new. Although I have to admit that the idiots that tried effortlessly to send out false propaganda against Muslims, has actually gotten non-Muslims in droves of learning about Islam. Wonder why THOUSANDS converted to Islam after 9/11? And why more thousands are doing so until this very day?

    And I'm just curious where you got this fantasy number of "4 billion" people. Are you just a failure at math or is your ego speaking? (More like in your imaginary dreams). It's a relief that there are more civilized, educated human beings out there, because I can only imagine if the majority of the world's population happened to be anywhere as near as your revolting racism and ignorance. And this already proves it as people who do educate themselves and refuse to be spoon-fed by the media, are coming upon different information, with some in the end even embracing Islam, making it of course the most practiced and fastest growing religion in the world. Your denials prove that you don't even want to believe in something that's statistically proven as FACT. Make yourself useful and try figuring that out.
    Keep living in denial. It won't and hasn't gotten you far anyways.
  • And who's to say that I don't? You being the ignorant person, you obviously wouldn't be aware of the preachings being sent out to Muslims to follow the teachings of Islam. Of course you wouldn't know because if you just spent HALF the time you did other than sending out garbage information to others, you'd actually learn something new. Although I have to admit that the idiots that tried effortlessly to send out false propaganda against Muslims, has actually gotten non-Muslims in droves of learning about Islam. Wonder why THOUSANDS converted to Islam after 9/11? And why more thousands are doing so until this very day?

    And I'm just curious where you got this fantasy number of "4 billion" people. Are you just a failure at math or is your ego speaking? (More like in your imaginary dreams). It's a relief that there are more civilized, educated human beings out there, because I can only imagine if the majority of the world's population happened to be anywhere as near as your revolting racism and ignorance. And this already proves it as people who do educate themselves and refuse to be spoon-fed by the media, are coming upon different information, with some in the end even embracing Islam, making it of course the most practiced and fastest growing religion in the world. You're denials prove that you don't even want to believe in something that's statistically proven as FACT. Make yourself useful and try figuring that out.
    Keep living in denial. It won't and hasn't gotten you far anyways.
  • And who's to say that I don't? You being the ignorant person, you obviously wouldn't be aware of the preachings being sent out to Muslims to follow the teachings of Islam. Of course you wouldn't know because if you just spent HALF the time you did other than sending out garbage information to others, you'd actually learn something new. Although I have to admit that the idiots that tried effortlessly to send out false propaganda against Muslims, has actually gotten non-Muslims in droves of learning about Islam. Wonder why THOUSANDS converted to Islam after 9/11? And why more thousands are doing so until this very day?

    And I'm just curious where you got this fantasy number of "4 billion" people. Are you just a failure at math or is your ego speaking? (More like in your imaginary dreams). It's a relief that there are more civilized, educated human beings out there, because I can only imagine if the majority of the world's population happened to be anywhere as near as your revolting racism and ignorance. And this already proves it as people who do educate themselves and refuse to be spoon-fed by the media, are coming upon different information, with some in the end even embracing Islam, making it of course the most practiced and fastest growing religion in the world. You're denials prove that you don't even want to believe in something that's statistically proven. Make yourself useful and try figuring that out.
    Keep living in denial. It won't and hasn't gotten you far anyways.
  • And who's to say that I don't? You being the ignorant person, you obviously wouldn't be aware of the preachings being sent out to Muslims to follow the teachings of Islam. Of course you wouldn't know because if you just spent HALF the time you did other than sending out garbage information to others, you'd actually learn something new. Although I have to admit that the idiots that tried effortlessly to send out false propaganda against Muslims, has actually gotten non-Muslims in droves of learning about Islam. Wonder why THOUSANDS converted to Islam after 9/11? And why more thousands are doing so until this very day?

    And I'm just curious where you got this fantasy number of "4 billion" people. Are you just a failure at math or is your ego speaking? (More like in your imaginary dreams). It's actually a relief that there are more civilized, educated human beings out there, because I can only imagine if the majority of the world's population happened to be anywhere as near as your revolting racism and ignorance. And this already proves it as people who do educate themselves and refuse to be spoon-fed by the media, are coming upon different information, with some in the end even embracing Islam, making it of course the most practiced and fastest growing religion in the world. You're denials prove that you don't even want to believe in something that's statistically proven. Make yourself useful and try figuring that out.
    Keep living in denial. It won't and hasn't gotten you far anyways.
  • And who's to say that I don't? You being the ignorant person, you obviously wouldn't be aware of the preachings being sent out to Muslims to follow the teachings of Islam. Of course you wouldn't know because if you just spent HALF the time you did other than sending out garbage information to others, you'd actually learn something new. Although I have to admit that the idiots that tried effortlessly to send out false propaganda against Muslims, has actually gotten non-Muslims in droves of learning about Islam. Wonder why THOUSANDS converted to Islam after 9/11? And why more thousands are doing so until this very day?

    And I'm just curious where you got this fantasy number of "4 billion" people. Are you just a failure at math or is your ego speaking? (More like in your imaginary dreams.) It's actually a relief that there are more civilized, educated human beings out there, because I can only imagine if the majority of the world's population happened to be anywhere as near as your revolting racism and ignorance. And this already proves it as people who do educate themselves and refuse to be spoon-fed by the media, are coming upon different information, with some in the end even embracing Islam, making it of course the most practiced and fastest growing religion in the world. You're denials prove that you don't even want to believe in something that's statistically proven. Make yourself useful and try figuring that out.
    Keep living in denial. It won't and hasn't gotten you far anyways.
  • And who's to say that I don't? You being the ignorant person, you obviously wouldn't be aware of the preachings being sent out to Muslims to follow the teachings of Islam. Of course you wouldn't know because if you just spent HALF the time you did other than sending out garbage information to others, you'd actually learn something new. Although I have to admit that the idiots that tried effortlessly to send out false propaganda against Muslims, has actually gotten non-Muslims in droves of learning about Islam. Wonder why THOUSANDS converted to Islam after 9/11? And why more thousands are doing so until this very day?

    And I'm just curious where you got this fantasy number of "4 billion" people. Are you just a failure at math or is your ego speaking? More like in your imaginary dreams. It's actually a relief that there are more civilized, educated human beings out there, because I can only imagine if the majority of the world's population happened to be anywhere as near as your revolting racism and ignorance. And this already proves it as people who do educate themselves and refuse to be spoon-fed by the media, are coming upon different information, with some in the end even embracing Islam, making it of course the most practiced and fastest growing religion in the world. You're denials prove that you don't even want to believe in something that's statistically proven. Make yourself useful and try figuring that out.
    Keep living in denial. It won't and hasn't gotten you far anyways.
  • And who's to say that I don't? You being the ignorant person, you obviously wouldn't be aware of the preachings being sent out to Muslims to follow the teachings of Islam. Of course you wouldn't know because if you just spent HALF the time you did other than sending out garbage information to others, you'd actually learn something new. Although I have to admit that the idiots that tried effortlessly to send out false propaganda against Muslims, has actually gotten non-Muslims in droves of learning about Islam. Wonder why THOUSANDS converted to Islam after 9/11? And why more thousands are doing so until this very day?

    And I'm just curious where you got this fantasy number of "4 billion" people. Are you just a failure at math or is your ego speaking? More like in your imaginary dreams. It's actually a relief that there are more civilized, educated human beings out there, because I can only imagine if the majority of the world's population happened to be anywhere as near as your revolting racism and ignorance. And this already proves it as people who do educate themselves and refuse to be spoon-fed by the media, are coming upon different information, with some in the end even embracing Islam, making it of course the most practiced and fastest growing religion in the world. You're denials prove that you don't even want to believe in something that's statistically proven. Make yourself useful and try figuring that out.
    Go live in denial. It won't and hasn't gotten you far anyways.
  • And who's to say that I don't? You being the ignorant person, you obviously wouldn't be aware of the preachings being sent out to Muslims to follow the teachings of Islam. Of course you wouldn't know because if you just spent HALF the time you did other than sending out garbage information to others, you'd actually learn something new. Although I have to admit that the idiots that tried effortlessly to send out false propaganda against Muslims, has actually gotten non-Muslims in droves of learning about Islam. Wonder why THOUSANDS converted to Islam after 9/11? And why more thousands are doing so until this very day?

    And I'm just curious where you got this fantasy number of "4 billion" people across the globe that think otherwise. Yeah, as if; more like in your imaginary dreams. It's actually a relief that there are more civilized, educated human beings out there, because I can only imagine if the majority of the world's population happened to be anywhere as near as your revolting racism and ignorance. And this already proves it as people who do educate themselves and refuse to be spoon-fed by the media, are coming upon different information, with some in the end even embracing Islam, making it of course the most practiced and fastest growing religion in the world. You're denials prove that you don't even want to believe in something that's statistically proven. Make yourself useful and try figuring that out.
    Go live in denial. It won't and hasn't gotten you far anyways.
  • And who's to say that I don't? You being the ignorant person, you obviously wouldn't be aware of the preachings being sent out to Muslims to follow the teachings of Islam. Of course you wouldn't know because if you just spent HALF the time you did other than sending out garbage information to others, you'd actually learn something new. Although I have to admit that the idiots that tried effortlessly to send out false propaganda against Muslims, has actually gotten non-Muslims in droves of learning about Islam. Wonder why THOUSANDS converted to Islam after 9/11? And why more thousands are doing so until this very day?

    And I'm just curious where you got this fantasy number of "4 billion" people across the globe that think otherwise. Yeah, as if; more like in your imaginary dreams. It's actually a relief that there are more civilized, educated human beings out there, because I can only imagine if the majority of the world's population happened to be anywhere as near as your revolting racism and ignorance. And this already proves it as people who do educate themselves and refuse to be spoon-fed by the media, are coming upon different information, with some in the end even embracing Islam, making it of course the most practiced and fastest growing religion in the world. You're denials prove that you don't even want to believe in something that's statistically proven. Make yourself useful and try figuring that out.
    Go live in denial. It won't and hasn't gotten you far anyways.
  • And who's to say that I don't? You being the ignorant person, you obviously wouldn't be aware of the preachings being sent out to Muslims to follow the teachings of Islam. Of course you wouldn't know because if you just spent HALF the time you did other than sending out garbage information to others, you'd actually learn something new. Although I have to admit that the idiots that tried effortlessly to send out false propaganda against Muslims, has actually gotten non-Muslims in droves of learning about Islam. Wonder why THOUSANDS converted to Islam after 9/11? And why more thousands are doing so until this very day?

    And I'm just curious where you got this fantasy number of "4 billion" people across the globe that think otherwise. Yeah, as if; more like in your imaginary dreams. It's actually a relief that there are more civilized, educated human beings out there, because I can only imagine if the majority of the world's population happened to be anywhere as near as your revolting racism and ignorance. And this already proves it as people who do educate themselves and refuse to be spoon-fed by the media, are coming upon different information, with some in the end even embracing Islam, making it of course the most practiced and fastest growing religion in the world. You're denials prove that you don't even want to believe in something that's statistically proven. Make yourself useful and try figuring that out.
    Go live in denial. It won't and hasn't gotten you far anyways.
  • And who's to say that I don't? You being the ignorant person, you obviously wouldn't be aware of the preachings being sent out to Muslims to follow the teachings of Islam. Of course you wouldn't know because if you just spent HALF the time you did other than sending out garbage information to others, you'd actually learn something new. Although I have to admit that the idiots that tried effortlessly to send out false propaganda against Muslims, has actually gotten non-Muslims in droves of learning about Islam. Wonder why THOUSANDS converted to Islam after 9/11? And why more thousands are doing so until this very day?

    And I'm just curious where you got this fantasy number of "4 billion" people across the globe that think otherwise. Yeah, as if; more like in your imaginary dreams. It's actually a relief that there are more civilized, educated human beings out there, because I can only imagine if the majority of the world's population happened to be anywhere as near as your revolting racism and ignorance. And this already proves it as people who do educate themselves and refuse to be spoon-fed by the media, are coming upon different information, with some in the end even embracing Islam, making it of course the most practiced and fastest growing religion in the world. You're denials prove that you don't even want to believe in something that's statistically proven. Try and beat that.
    Go live in denial. It won't and hasn't gotten you far anyways.
  • And who's to say that I don't? You being the ignorant person, you obviously wouldn't be aware of the preachings being sent out to Muslims to follow the teachings of Islam. Of course you wouldn't know because if you just spent HALF the time you did other than sending out garbage information to others, you'd actually learn something new. Although I have to admit that the idiots that tried effortlessly to send out false propaganda against Muslims, has actually gotten non-Muslims in droves of learning about Islam. Wonder why THOUSANDS converted to Islam after 9/11? And why more thousands are doing so until this very day?

    And I'm just curious where you got this fantasy number of "4 billion" people across the globe that think otherwise. Yeah, as if; more like in your little imaginary dreams. It's actually a relief that there are more civilized, educated human beings out there, because I can only imagine if the majority of the world's population happened to be anywhere as near as your revolting racism and ignorance. And this already proves it as people who do educate themselves and refuse to be spoon-fed by the media, are coming upon different information, with some in the end even embracing Islam, making it of course the most practiced and fastest growing religion in the world. You're denials prove that you don't even want to believe in something that's statistically proven. Try and beat that.
    Go live in denial. It won't and hasn't gotten you far anyways.
  • Yeah sure, and like this worthless site is even any more reliable? Not to mention of course the distorted ideas brought about by the media; best way to get your resources, isn't it? Do you only like to deny what you can't believe actually exists? Whatever helps you sleep at night.
  • Yeah sure, and like this worthless site is even any more reliable? Not to mention of course the distorted ideas brought about by the media; best way to get your resources, isn't it? Do you only like to deny what you can't believe actually exists? Yeah, whatever helps you sleep at night.
  • Yeah sure, and like this worthless site is even any more reliable? Not to mention of course the distorted ideas brought about by the media; best way to get your resources, isn't it? Do you only like to deny what you can't believe actually exists? Yeah, well whatever actually helps you sleep at night.
  • Yeah sure, and like this worthless site is even any more reliable? Not to mention of course the distorted ideas brought about by the media; best way to get your resources, isn't it? Do you only like to deny what you can't believe actually exists? Continue to live in your denials. Whatever helps you sleep at night.
  • And who's to say that I don't? You being the ignorant person, you obviously wouldn't be aware of the preachings being sent out to Muslims to follow the teachings of Islam. Of course you wouldn't know because if you just spent HALF the time you did other than sending out garbage information to others, you'd actually learn something new. Although I have to admit that the idiots that tried effortlessly to send out false propaganda against Muslims, has actually gotten non-Muslims in droves of learning about Islam. Wonder why THOUSANDS converted to Islam after 9/11? And why more thousands are doing so until this very day?

    And I'm just curious where you got this fantasy number of "4 billion" people across the globe that think otherwise. Yeah, as if; more like in your little imaginary dreams. It's actually a relief that there are more civilized, educated human beings out there, because I can only imagine if the majority of the world's population happened to be anywhere as near as your revolting racism and ignorance. And this already proves it as people who do educate themselves and refuse to be spoon-fed by the media, are coming upon different information, with some in the end even embracing Islam, making it of course the most practiced and fastest growing religion in the world. You're denials prove that you don't even want to believe in something that's statistically proven. Try and beat that.
    Go live in denial. It won't get you far anyways.
  • And who's to say that I don't? You being the ignorant person, you obviously wouldn't be aware of the preachings being sent out to Muslims to follow the teachings of Islam. Of course you wouldn't know because if you just spent HALF the time you did other than sending out garbage information to others, you'd actually learn something new. Although I have to admit that the idiots that tried effortlessly to send out false propaganda against Muslims, has actually gotten non-Muslims in droves of learning about Islam. Wonder why THOUSANDS converted to Islam after 9/11? And why more thousands are doing so until this very day?

    And I'm just curious where you got this fantasy number of "4 billion" people across the globe that think otherwise. Yeah, as if; more like in your little imaginary dreams. It's actually a relief that there are more civilized, educated human beings out there, because I can only imagine if the majority of the world's population happened to be anywhere as near as your revolting racism and ignorance. And this already proves it as people who do educate themselves and refuse to be spoon-fed by the media, are coming upon different information, with some in the end embracing Islam, making it of course the most practiced and fastest growing religion in the world. You're denials prove that you don't even want to believe in something that's statistically proven. Try and beat that.
    Go live in denial. It won't get you far anyways.
  • And who's to say that I don't? You being the ignorant person, you obviously wouldn't be aware of the preachings being sent out to Muslims to follow the teachings of Islam. Of course you wouldn't know because if you just spent HALF the time you did other than sending out garbage information to others, you'd actually learn something new. Although I have to admit that the idiots that tried effortlessly to send out false propaganda against Muslims, has actually gotten non-Muslims in droves of learning about Islam. Wonder why THOUSANDS converted to Islam after 9/11? And why more thousands are doing so until this very day?

    And I'm just curious where you got this fantasy number of "4 billion" people across the globe that think otherwise. Yeah, as if; more like in your little imaginary dreams. It's actually a relief that there are more civilized, educated human beings out there, because I can only imagine if the majority of the world's population happened to be anywhere as near as your revolting racism and ignorance. And this already proves it as people who do educate themselves and refuse to be spoon-fed by the media, are coming upon different information, with some in the end embracing Islam, making it of course the most practiced and fastest growing religion in the world. You're denials prove that you don't even want to believe in something that's statistically proven.
    Go live in denial. It won't get you far anyways.
  • And who's to say that I don't? You being the ignorant person, you obviously wouldn't be aware of the preachings being sent out to Muslims to follow the teachings of Islam. Of course you wouldn't know because if you just spent HALF the time you did other than sending out garbage information to others, you'd actually learn something new. Although I have to admit that the idiots that tried effortlessly to send out false propaganda against Muslims, has actually gotten non-Muslims in droves of learning about Islam. Wonder why THOUSANDS converted to Islam after 9/11? And why more thousands are doing so until this very day?

    And I'm just curious where you got this fantasy number of "4 billion" people across the globe that think otherwise. Yeah, as if; more like in your little imaginary dreams. It's actually a relief that there are more civilized, educated human beings out there, because I can only imagine if the majority of the world's population happened to be anywhere as near as your revolting racism and ignorance. And this already proves it as people who do educate themselves and refuse to be spoon-fed by the media (like yourself), are coming upon different information, with some in the end embracing Islam, making it of course the most practiced and fastest growing religion in the world. You're denials prove that you don't even want to believe in something that's statistically proven.
    Go live in denial. It won't get you far anyways.
  • And who's to say that I don't? You being the ignorant person, you obviously wouldn't be aware of the preachings being sent out to Muslims to follow the teachings of Islam. Of course you wouldn't know because if you just spent HALF the time you did other than sending out garbage information to others, you'd actually learn something new. Although I have to admit that the idiots that tried effortlessly to send out false propaganda against Muslims, has actually gotten non-Muslims in droves of learning about Islam. Wonder why THOUSANDS converted to Islam after 9/11? And why more thousands are doing so until this very day?

    And I'm just curious where you got this fantasy number of "4 billion" people across the globe that think otherwise. Yeah, as if; more like in your little imaginary dreams. It's actually a relief that there are more civilized, educated human beings out there, because I can only imagine if the majority of the world's population happened to be anywhere as near as your revolting racism and ignorance. And this already proves it as people who do educate themselves and refuse to be spoon-fed by the media (like yourself) are coming upon different information, with some in the end embracing Islam, making it of course the most practiced and fastest growing religion in the world. You're denials prove that you don't even want to believe in something that's statistically proven.
    Go live in denial. It won't get you far anyways.
  • And who's to say that I don't? You being the ignorant person, you obviously wouldn't be aware of the preachings being sent out to Muslims to follow the teachings of Islam. Of course you wouldn't know because if you just spent HALF the time you did other than sending out garbage information to others, you'd actually learn something new. Although I have to admit that the idiots that tried effortlessly to send out false propaganda against Muslims, has actually gotten non-Muslims in droves of learning about Islam. Wonder why THOUSANDS converted to Islam after 9/11? And why more thousands are doing so until this very day?

    And I'm just curious where you got this fantasy number of "4 billion" people across the globe that think otherwise. Yeah, as if; more like in your little imaginary dreams. It's actually a relief that there are more civilized, educated human beings out there, because I can only imagine if the majority of the population happened to be anywhere as near as your revolting racism and ignorance. And this already proves it as people who do wish to educate themselves and not be spoon-fed by the media (like yourself) are coming upon different information, with some in the end embracing Islam, making it of course the most practiced and fastest growing religion in the world. You're denials prove that you don't even want to believe in something that's statistically proven.
    Go live in denial. It won't get you far anyways.
  • And who's to say that I don't? You being the ignorant person, you obviously wouldn't be aware of the preachings being sent out to Muslims to follow the teachings of Islam. Of course you wouldn't know because if you just spent HALF the time you did other than sending out garbage information to others, you'd actually learn something new. Although I have to admit that the idiots that tried effortlessly to send out false propaganda against Muslims, has actually gotten non-Muslims in droves of learning about Islam. Wonder why THOUSANDS converted to Islam after 9/11? And why more thousands are doing so until this very day?

    And I'm just curious where you got this fantasy number of "4 billion" people across the globe that think otherwise. Yeah, as if; more like in your little illusional dreams. It's actually a relief that there are more civilized, educated human beings out there, because I can only imagine if the majority of the population happened to be anywhere as near as your revolting racism and ignorance. And this already proves it as people who do wish to educate themselves and not be spoon-fed by the media (like yourself) are coming upon different information, with some in the end embracing Islam, making it of course the most practiced and fastest growing religion in the world. You're denials prove that you don't even want to believe in something that's statistically proven.
    Go live in denial. It won't get you far anyways.
  • And who's to say that I don't? You being the ignorant person, you obviously wouldn't be aware of the preachings being sent out to Muslims to follow the teachings of Islam. Of course you wouldn't know because if you just spent HALF the time you did other than sending out garbage information to others, you'd actually learn something new. Although I have to admit that the idiots that tried effortlessly to send out false propaganda against Muslims, has actually gotten non-Muslims in droves of learning about Islam. Wonder why THOUSANDS converted to Islam after 9/11? And why more thousands are doing so until this very day?

    And I'm just curious where you got this fantasy number of "4 billion" people across the globe that think otherwise. Yeah, as if; more like in your little illusional dreams. It's actually a relief that there are more civilized, educated human beings out there, because I can only imagine if the majority of the population happened to be anywhere as near as your revolting racism and ignorance. And that already proves it as people who do wish to educate themselves and not be spoon-fed by the media (like yourself) are coming upon different information, with some in the end embracing Islam, making it of course the most practiced and fastest growing religion in the world. You're denials prove that you don't even want to believe in something that's statistically proven.
    Go live in denial. It won't get you far anyways.
  • And who's to say that I don't? You being the ignorant person, you obviously wouldn't be aware of the preachings being sent out to Muslims to follow the teachings of Islam. Of course you wouldn't know because if you just spent HALF the time you did other than sending out garbage information to others, you'd actually learn something new. Although I have to admit that the idiots that tried effortlessly to send out false propaganda against Muslims, has actually gotten non-Muslims in droves of learning about Islam. Wonder why THOUSANDS converted to Islam after 9/11? And why more thousands are doing so until this very day?

    And I'm just curious where you got this fantasy number of "4 billion" people across the globe that think otherwise. As if; only in your little illusional dreams. It's actually a relief that there are more civilized, educated human beings out there, because I can only imagine if the majority of the population happened to be anywhere as near as your revolting racism and ignorance. And that already proves it as people who do wish to educate themselves and not be spoon-fed by the media (like yourself) are coming upon different information, with some in the end embracing Islam, making it of course the most practiced and fastest growing religion in the world. You're denials prove that you don't even want to believe in something that's statistically proven.
    Go live in denial. It won't get you far anyways.
  • And who's to say that I don't? You being the ignorant person, you obviously wouldn't be aware of the preachings being sent out to Muslims to follow the teachings of Islam. Of course you wouldn't know because if you just spent HALF the time you did other than sending out garbage information to others, you'd actually learn something new. Although I have to admit that the idiots that tried effortlessly to send out false propaganda against Muslims, has actually gotten non-Muslims in droves of learning about Islam. Wonder why THOUSANDS converted to Islam after 9/11? And why more thousands are doing so until this very day?

    And I'm just curious where you got this fantasy number of "4 billion" people across the globe that think otherwise. As if; only in your little fairy tale dreams. It's actually a relief that there are more civilized, educated human beings out there, because I can only imagine if the majority of the population happened to be anywhere as near as your revolting racism and ignorance. And that already proves it as people who do wish to educate themselves and not be spoon-fed by the media (like yourself) are coming upon different information, with some in the end embracing Islam, making it of course the most practiced and fastest growing religion in the world. You're denials prove that you don't even want to believe in something that's statistically proven.
    Go live in denial. It won't get you far anyways.
  • And who's to say that I don't? You being the ignorant person, you obviously wouldn't be aware of the preachings being sent out to Muslims to follow the teachings of Islam. Of course you wouldn't know because if you just spent HALF the time you did other than sending out garbage information to others, you'd actually learn something new. Although I have to admit that the idiots that tried effortlessly to send out false propaganda against Muslims, has actually gotten non-Muslims in droves of learning about Islam. Wonder why THOUSANDS converted to Islam after 9/11? And why more thousands are doing so until this very day?

    And I'm just curious where you got this fantasy number of "4 billion" people across the globe that think otherwise. Yeah right, only in your little fairy tale dreams. It's actually a relief that there are more civilized, educated human beings out there, because I can only imagine if the majority of the population happened to be anywhere as near as your revolting racism and ignorance. And that already proves it as people who do wish to educate themselves and not be spoon-fed by the media (like yourself) are coming upon different information, with some in the end embracing Islam, making it of course the most practiced and fastest growing religion in the world. You're denials prove that you don't even want to believe in something that's statistically proven.
    Go live in denial. It won't get you far anyways.
  • And who's to say that I don't? You being the ignorant person, you obviously wouldn't be aware of the preachings being sent out to Muslims to follow the teachings of Islam. Of course you wouldn't know because if you just spent HALF the time you did other than sending out garbage information to others, you'd actually learn something new. Although I have to admit that the idiots that tried effortlessly to send out false propaganda against Muslims, has actually gotten non-Muslims in droves of learning about Islam.

    And I'm just curious where you got this fantasy number of "4 billion" people across the globe that think otherwise. Yeah right, only in your little fairy tale dreams. It's actually a relief that there are more civilized, educated human beings out there, because I can only imagine if the majority of the population happened to be anywhere as near as your revolting racism and ignorance. And that already proves it as people who do wish to educate themselves and not be spoon-fed by the media (like yourself) are coming upon different information, with some in the end embracing Islam, making it of course the most practiced and fastest growing religion in the world. You're denials prove that you don't even want to believe in something that's statistically proven.
    Go live in denial. It won't get you far anyways.
  • And who's to say that I don't? You being the ignorant person, you obviously wouldn't be aware of the preachings being sent out to Muslims to follow the teachings of Islam. Of course you wouldn't know because if you just spent HALF the time you did other than sending out garbage information to others, you'd actually learn something. Although I have to admit that the idiots that tried effortlessly to send out false propaganda against Muslims, has actually gotten non-Muslims in droves of learning about Islam.

    And I'm just curious where you got this fantasy number of "4 billion" people across the globe that think otherwise. Yeah right, only in your little fairy tale dreams. It's actually a relief that there are more civilized, educated human beings out there, because I can only imagine if the majority of the population happened to be anywhere as near as your revolting racism and ignorance. And that already proves it as people who do wish to educate themselves and not be spoon-fed by the media (like yourself) are coming upon different information, with some in the end embracing Islam, making it of course the most practiced and fastest growing religion in the world. You're denials prove that you don't even want to believe in something that's statistically proven.
    Go live in denial. It won't get you far anyways.
  • And who's to say that I don't? You being the ignorant person, you obviously wouldn't be aware of the preachings being sent out to Muslims to follow the teachings of Islam. Of course you wouldn't know because if you just spent HALF the time you did other than sending out garbage information to others, you'd actually learn something. Although I have to admit that the idiots that tried effortlessly to send out false propaganda against Muslims, has actually gotten non-Muslims in droves of learning about Islam.

    And I'm just curious where you got this fantasy number of "4 billion" people across the globe that think otherwise. It's actually a relief that there are more civilized, educated human beings out there, because I can only imagine if the majority of the population happened to be anywhere as near as your revolting racism and ignorance. And that already proves it as people who do wish to educate themselves and not be spoon-fed by the media (like yourself) are coming upon different information, with some in the end embracing Islam, making it of course the most practiced and fastest growing religion in the world. You're denials prove that you don't even want to believe in something that's statistically proven.
    Go live in denial. It won't get you far anyways.
  • And who's to say that I don't? You being the ignorant person, you obviously wouldn't be aware of the preachings being sent out to Muslims to follow the teachings of Islam. Of course you wouldn't know because if you just spent HALF the time you did other than sending out garbage information to others, you'd actually learn something. Although I have to admit that the idiots that tried effortlessly to send out false propaganda against Muslims, has actually gotten non-Muslims in droves of converting into Islam.

    And I'm just curious where you got this fantasy number of "4 billion" people across the globe that think otherwise. It's actually a relief that there are more civilized, educated human beings out there, because I can only imagine if the majority of the population happened to be anywhere as near as your revolting racism and ignorance. And that already proves it as people who do wish to educate themselves and not be spoon-fed by the media (like yourself) are coming upon different information, with some in the end embracing Islam, making it of course the most practiced and fastest growing religion in the world. You're denials prove that you don't even want to believe in something that's statistically proven.
    Go live in denial. It won't get you far anyways.
  • And who's to say that I don't? You being the ignorant person, you obviously wouldn't be aware of the preachings being sent out to Muslims to follow the teachings of Islam. Of course you wouldn't know because if you just spent HALF the time you did other than sending out garbage information to others, you'd actually learn something. Although I have to admit that the idiots that tried effortlessly to send out false propaganda against Muslim, has actually gotten non-Muslims in droves of curiosity about Islam.

    And I'm just curious where you got this fantasy number of "4 billion" people across the globe that think otherwise. It's actually a relief that there are more civilized, educated human beings out there, because I can only imagine if the majority of the population happened to be anywhere as near as your revolting racism and ignorance. And that already proves it as people who do wish to educate themselves and not be spoon-fed by the media (like yourself) are coming upon different information, with some in the end embracing Islam, making it of course the most practiced and fastest growing religion in the world. You're denials prove that you don't even want to believe in something that's statistically proven.
    Go live in denial. It won't get you far anyways.
  • And who's to say that I don't? You being the ignorant person, you obviously wouldn't be aware of the preachings being sent out to Muslims to follow the teachings of Islam. Of course you wouldn't know because if you just spent HALF the time you did other than sending out garbage information to others, you'd actually learn something. Although I have to admit that the idiots that tried effortlessly to send out false propaganda against Muslim, has actually gotten non-Muslims in droves of curiosity about Islam.
    If you realize that Muslims do not live according to the teachings of Islam, why go spread negative images on Islam and Muslims to begin with? See, it's because of people like you that there's no common sense anymore. You want all people to share your views but attack people that disagree with them. Why do you think nothing is or ever will be resolved?

    And I'm just curious where you got this fantasy number of "4 billion" people across the globe that think otherwise. It's actually a relief that there are more civilized, educated human beings out there, because I can only imagine if the majority of the population happened to be anywhere as near as your revolting racism and ignorance. And that already proves it as people who do wish to educate themselves and not be spoon-fed by the media (like yourself) are coming upon different information, with some in the end embracing Islam, making it of course the most practiced and fastest growing religion in the world. You're denials prove that you don't even want to believe in something that's statistically proven.
    Go live in denial. It won't get you far anyways.
  • And who's to say that I don't? You being the ignorant person, you obviously wouldn't be aware of the preachings being sent out to Muslims to follow the teachings of Islam. Of course you wouldn't know because if you just spent HALF the time you did other than sending out garbage information to others, you'd actually learn something. Although I have to admit that the idiots that tried effortlessly to send out false propaganda against Muslim, has actually gotten non-Muslims in droves of curiosity about Islam.
    If you realize that Muslims do not live according to the teachings of Islam, why go spread negative images on Islam and Muslims to begin with? See, it's because of people like you that there's no common sense anymore. You want all people to share your views but attack people that disagree with them. Why do you think nothing is or ever will be resolved?

    And I'm just curious where you got this fantasy number of "4 billion" people across the globe that think otherwise. It's actually a relief that there are more civilized, educated human beings out there, because I can only imagine if the majority of the population happened to be anywhere as near as your revolting racism and ignorance. And that already proves it as people who do wish to educate themselves and not be spoon-fed by the media (like yourself) are coming upon different information, with some in the end embracing Islam, making it of course the most practiced and fastest growing religion in the world. You're denials prove that you don't even want to believe in something that's statistically proven.
    Go live in denial. It won't get you far anyways.
  • And who's to say that I don't? You being the ignorant person, you obviously wouldn't be aware of the preachings being sent out to Muslims to follow the teachings of Islam. Of course you wouldn't know because if you just spent HALF the time you did other than sending out garbage information to others, you'd actually learn something.
    If you realize that Muslims do not live according to the teachings of Islam, why go spread negative images on Islam and Muslims to begin with? See, it's because of people like you that there's no common sense anymore. You want all people to share your views but attack people that disagree with them. Why do you think nothing is or ever will be resolved?

    And I'm just curious where you got this fantasy number of "4 billion" people across the globe that think otherwise. It's actually a relief that there are more civilized, educated human beings out there, because I can only imagine if the majority of the population happened to be anywhere as near as your revolting racism and ignorance. And that already proves it as people who do wish to educate themselves and not be spoon-fed by the media (like yourself) are coming upon different information, with some in the end embracing Islam, making it of course the most practiced and fastest growing religion in the world. You're denials prove that you don't even want to believe in something that's statistically proven.
    Go live in denial. It won't get you far anyways.
  • And who's to say that I don't? You being the ignorant person, you obviously wouldn't be aware of the preachings being sent out to Muslims to follow the teachings of Islam. Of course you wouldn't know because if you just spent HALF the time you did other than sending out garbage information to others, you'd actually learn something.
    If you realize that Muslims do not live according to the teachings of Islam, why go spread negative images on Islam and Muslims to begin with? See, it's because of people like you that there's no common sense anymore. You want all people to share your views but attack people that disagree with them. Why do you think nothing is or ever will be resolved?

    And I'm just curious where you got this fantasy number of "4 billion" people across the globe that think otherwise. It's actually a relief that there are more civilized, educated human beings out there, because I can only imagine if the majority of the population happened to be anywhere as near as your revolting racism and ignorance. And that already proves it as people who do wish to educate themselves and not be spoon-fed by the media (like yourself) are coming upon different information, with some in the end embracing Islam, making it of course the most practiced and fastest growing religion in the world. You're denials prove that you don't even want to believe in something that's statistically proven.
    Go live in your denials. It won't get you far anyways.
  • And who's to say that I don't? You being the ignorant person, you obviously wouldn't be aware of the preachings being sent out to Muslims to follow the teachings of Islam. Of course you wouldn't know because if you just spent HALF the time you did other than sending out garbage information to others, you'd actually learn something.
    If you realize that Muslims do not live according to the teachings of Islam, why go spread negative images on Islam and Muslims to begin with? See, it's because of people like you that there's no common sense anymore. You want all people to share your views but attack people that disagree with them. Why do you think nothing is or ever will be resolved?

    And I'm just curious where you got the "4 billion" people across the globe that think otherwise. It's actually a relief that there are more civilized, educated human beings out there, because I can only imagine if the majority of the population happened to be anywhere as near as your revolting racism and ignorance. And that already proves it as people who do wish to educate themselves and not be spoon-fed by the media (like yourself) are coming upon different information, with some in the end embracing Islam, making it of course the most practiced and fastest growing religion in the world. You're denials prove that you don't even want to believe in something that's statistically proven.
    Go live in your denials. It won't get you far anyways.
  • Yeah sure, and like this worthless site is even any more reliable? Not to mention of course the distorted ideas brought by the media; best way to get your resources, isn't it? Do you only like to deny what you can't believe actually exists? Continue to live in your denials. Whatever helps you sleep at night.
  • Yeah sure, and like this worthless site is even any more reliable? Not to mention of course the bias media; best way to get your resources, isn't it? Do you only like to deny what you can't believe actually exists? Continue to live in your denials. Whatever helps you sleep at night.
  • Yeah sure, and like this worthless site is even any more reliable? Not to mention of course the bias media; best way to get your resources, isn't it? Do you only like to deny what you can't believe actually exists? Continue to live your denials. Whatever helps you sleep at night.
  • Yeah sure, and like these worthless sites are even any more reliable? Not to mention of course the bias media; best way to get your resources, isn't it? Do you only like to deny what you can't believe actually exists? Continue to live your denials. Whatever helps you sleep at night.
  • And who's to say that I don't? You being the ignorant person, you obviously wouldn't be aware of the preachings being sent out to Muslims to follow the teachings of Islam. Of course you wouldn't know because if you just spent HALF the time other than sending out garbage information to others, you'd actually learn something.
    If you realize that Muslims do not live according to the teachings of Islam, why go spread negative images on Islam and Muslims to begin with? See, it's because of people like you that there's no common sense anymore. You want all people to share your views but attack people that disagree with them. Why do you think nothing is or ever will be resolved?

    And I'm just curious where you got the "4 billion" people across the globe that think otherwise. It's actually a relief that there are more civilized, educated human beings out there, because I can only imagine if the majority of the population happened to be anywhere as near as your revolting racism and ignorance. And that already proves it as people who do wish to educate themselves and not be spoon-fed by the media (like yourself) are coming upon different information, with some in the end embracing Islam, making it of course the most practiced and fastest growing religion in the world. You're denials prove that you don't even want to believe in something that's statistically proven.
    Go live in your denials. It won't get you far anyways.
  • Kal_El
    Oh wow, you provided youtube links, and we all know those are infallible.
  • Kal_El
    Actually his post was pretty humorous, if you have heard the line "read any good books lately?" here in the dar ul harb.
  • Kal_El
    And why do you not lecture muslims who (according to you) are not living true islam? Why do you persist in trying to convince us that there is nothing bad about islam, when 4 billion people across the globe think otherwise (I am counting the Chinese, Indians, and Africans in along with the Americas, and Australia).
  • I am fully aware of the teachings of Christianity, including Judaism. That is simply because Muslims believe that all God's Messengers were the chosen people to tell mankind about the existence of ONE God. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all derive from the same source; through Abraham (peace be upon him).

    Muslims believe that the Torah, the Bible, and the Quran to be the word of God. But Muslims also believe the original Books have been altered. I mean this as no offense. I'm talking literally. Are there not DIFFERENT versions of the Torah and the Bible today? How many versions of the Quran do you see today? Only ONE, and all being the SAME, making it authentic.

    Jews and Christians are regarded in Islam to be "People of the Book", because they follow the same Messengers that Muslims also follow; that being Moses (peace be upon him) and Jesus (peace be upon him). It's not about the name of the religion, because in essence, ALL the Messengers (Moses, Jesus, Mohammad [peace be upon them all]) came down with ONE message, believing in the same ONE God.

    "And We sent, following in their footsteps, Jesus son of Mary, confirming the Torah before him, and We gave to him the Gospel, wherein is guidance and light, and confirming the Torah before it, as a guidance and an admonition unto the GOD-fearing."
    –The Quran [5:46]

    This is why I don't understand how Christians and Jews can say foul things about Islam. People are against something they clearly don't understand. And this is why I am against everyone's statements here. Not because of their religion, but because of their ignorance towards Islam and Muslims.
  • I am fully aware of the teachings of Christianity, including Judaism. That is simply because Muslims believe that all God's Messengers were the chosen people to tell mankind about the existence of ONE God. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all derive from the same source; through Abraham (peace be upon him).

    Muslims believe that the Torah, the Bible, and the Quran to be the word of God. But Muslims also believe the original Books have been altered. I mean this as no offense. I'm talking literally. Are there not DIFFERENT versions of the Torah and the Bible today? How many versions of the Quran do you see today? Only ONE, and all being the SAME, making it authentic.

    Jews and Christians are regarded in Islam to be "People of the Book", because they follow the same Messengers that Muslims also follow; that being Moses (peace be upon him) and Jesus (peace be upon him). It's not about the name of the religion, because in essence, ALL the Messengers (Moses, Jesus, Mohammad [peace be upon them all]) came down with ONE message, believing in the same ONE God.

    "And We sent, following in their footsteps, Jesus son of Mary, confirming the Torah before him, and We gave to him the Gospel, wherein is guidance and light, and confirming the Torah before it, as a guidance and an admonition unto the GOD- fearing."
    –The Quran [5:46]

    This is why I don't understand how Christians and Jews can say foul things about Islam. People are against something they clearly don't understand. And this is why I am against everyone's statements here. Not because of their religion, but because of their ignorance towards Islam and Muslims.
  • I am fully aware of the teachings of Christianity, including Judaism. That is simply because Muslims believe that all God's Messengers were the chosen people to tell mankind about the existence of ONE God. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all derive from the same source; through Abraham (peace be upon him).

    Muslims believe that the Torah, the Bible, and the Quran to be the word of God. But Muslims also believe the original Books have been altered. I mean this as no offense. I'm talking literally. Are there not DIFFERENT versions of the Torah and the Bible today? How many versions of the Quran do you see today? Only ONE, and all being the SAME, making it authentic.

    Jews and Christians are regarded in Islam to be "People of the Book", because they follow the same Messengers that Muslims also follow; that being Moses (peace be upon him) and Jesus (peace be upon him). You can call the religion what you like, because in essence, ALL the Messengers (Moses, Jesus, Mohammad [peace be upon them all]) came down with ONE message, believing in the same ONE God.

    "And We sent, following in their footsteps, Jesus son of Mary, confirming the Torah before him, and We gave to him the Gospel, wherein is guidance and light, and confirming the Torah before it, as a guidance and an admonition unto the GOD- fearing."
    –The Quran [5:46]

    This is why I don't understand how Christians and Jews can say foul things about Islam. People are against something they clearly don't understand. And this is why I am against everyone's statements here. Not because of their religion, but because of their ignorance towards Islam and Muslims.
  • I am fully aware of the teachings of Christianity, including Judaism. That is simply because Muslims believe that all God's Messengers were the chosen people to tell mankind about the existence of ONE God. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all derive from the same source; through Abraham (peace be upon him).

    Muslims believe that the Torah, the Bible, and the Quran to be the word of God. But Muslims also believe the original Books have been altered. I mean this as no offense. I'm talking literally. Are there not DIFFERENT versions of the Torah and the Bible today? How many versions of the Quran do you see today? Only ONE, and all being the SAME, making it authentic.

    Jews and Christians are regarded in Islam to be "People of the Book", because they follow the same Messengers that Muslims also follow; that being Moses (peace be upon him) and Jesus (peace be upon him). It's not about what you want to name the religion. Because in essence, ALL the Messengers (Moses, Jesus, Mohammad [peace be upon them all]) came down with ONE message, believing in the same ONE God.

    "And We sent, following in their footsteps, Jesus son of Mary, confirming the Torah before him, and We gave to him the Gospel, wherein is guidance and light, and confirming the Torah before it, as a guidance and an admonition unto the GOD- fearing."
    –The Quran [5:46]

    This is why I don't understand how Christians and Jews can say foul things about Islam. People are against something they clearly don't understand. And this is why I am against everyone's statements here. Not because of their religion, but because of their ignorance towards Islam and Muslims.
  • I am fully aware of the teachings of Christianity, including Judaism. That is simply because Muslims believe that all God's Messengers were the chosen people to tell mankind about the existence of ONE God. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all derive from the same source; through Abraham (peace be upon him).

    Muslims believe that the Torah, the Bible, and the Quran to be the word of God. But Muslims also believe the original Books have been altered. And I mean this as no offense. I'm talking literally. Are there not DIFFERENT versions of the Torah and the Bible today? How many versions of the Quran do you see today? Only ONE, and all being the SAME, making it authentic.

    Jews and Christians are regarded in Islam to be "People of the Book", because they follow the same Messengers that Muslims also follow; that being Moses (peace be upon him) and Jesus (peace be upon him). It's not about what you want to name the religion. Because in essence, ALL the Messengers (Moses, Jesus, Mohammad [peace be upon them all]) came down with ONE message, believing in the same ONE God.

    "And We sent, following in their footsteps, Jesus son of Mary, confirming the Torah before him, and We gave to him the Gospel, wherein is guidance and light, and confirming the Torah before it, as a guidance and an admonition unto the GOD- fearing."
    –The Quran [5:46]

    This is why I don't understand how Christians and Jews can say foul things about Islam. People are against something they clearly don't understand. And this is why I am against everyone's statements here. Not because of their religion, but because of their ignorance towards Islam and Muslims.
  • I am fully aware of the teachings of Christianity, including Judaism. That is simply because Muslims believe that all God's Messengers were the chosen people to tell mankind about the existence of ONE God. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all derive from the same source; through Abraham (peace be upon him).

    Muslims believe that the Torah, the Bible, and the Quran to be the word of God. But Muslims also believe the original Books have been altered. And I mean this as no offense. I'm talking literally. Are there not DIFFERENT versions of the Torah and the Bible today? How many versions of the Quran do you see today? Only ONE, and all being the SAME, making it authentic.

    Jews and Christians are regarded in Islam to be "People of the Book", because they follow the same Messengers that Muslims also follow, that being Moses (peace be upon him) and Jesus (peace be upon him). It's not about what you want to name the religion. Because in essence, ALL the Messengers (Moses, Jesus, Mohammad [peace be upon them all]) came down with ONE message, believing in the same ONE God.

    "And We sent, following in their footsteps, Jesus son of Mary, confirming the Torah before him, and We gave to him the Gospel, wherein is guidance and light, and confirming the Torah before it, as a guidance and an admonition unto the GOD- fearing."
    –The Quran [5:46]

    This is why I don't understand how Christians and Jews can say foul things about Islam. People are against something they clearly don't understand. And this is why I am against everyone's statements here. Not because of their religion, but because of their ignorance towards Islam and Muslims.
  • I am fully aware of the teachings of Christianity, including Judaism. That is simply because Muslims believe that all God's Messengers were the chosen people to tell mankind about the existence of ONE God. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all derive from the same source; through Abraham (peace be upon him).

    Muslims believe that the Torah, the Bible, and the Quran to be the word of God. But Muslims also believe the original Books have been altered. And I mean this as no offense. I'm talking literally. Are there not DIFFERENT versions of the Torah and the Bible today? How many versions of the Quran do you see today? Only ONE, and all being the SAME, making it authentic.

    Jews and Christians are regarded in Islam to be "People of the Book", because they follow the same Messengers that Muslims follow, that being Moses (peace be upon him) and Jesus (peace be upon him). It's not about what you want to name the religion. Because in essence, ALL the Messengers (Moses, Jesus, Mohammad [peace be upon them all]) came down with ONE message, believing in the same ONE God.

    "And We sent, following in their footsteps, Jesus son of Mary, confirming the Torah before him, and We gave to him the Gospel, wherein is guidance and light, and confirming the Torah before it, as a guidance and an admonition unto the GOD- fearing."
    –The Quran [5:46]

    This is why I don't understand how Christians and Jews can say foul things about Islam. People are against something they clearly don't understand. And this is why I am against everyone's statements here. Not because of their religion, but because of their ignorance towards Islam and Muslims.
  • I am fully aware of the teachings of Christianity, including Judaism. That is simply because Muslims believe that all God's Messengers were the chosen people to tell mankind about the existence of ONE God. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all derive from the same source; through Abraham (peace be upon him).

    Muslims believe that the Torah, the Bible, and the Quran to be the word of God. But Muslims also believe the original Books have been altered. And I mean this as no offense. I'm talking literally. Are there not DIFFERENT versions of the Torah and the Bible today? How many versions of the Quran do you see today? Only ONE, and all being the SAME, making it authentic.

    Jews and Christians are regarded in Islam to be "People of the Book", because they follow the same Messengers, such as Moses (peace be upon him) and Jesus (peace be upon him). It's not about what you want to name the religion. Because in essence, ALL the Messengers (Moses, Jesus, Mohammad [peace be upon them all]) came down with ONE message, believing in the same ONE God.

    "And We sent, following in their footsteps, Jesus son of Mary, confirming the Torah before him, and We gave to him the Gospel, wherein is guidance and light, and confirming the Torah before it, as a guidance and an admonition unto the GOD- fearing."
    –The Quran [5:46]

    This is why I don't understand how Christians and Jews can say foul things about Islam. People are against something they clearly don't understand. And this is why I am against everyone's statements here. Not because of their religion, but because of their ignorance towards Islam and Muslims.
  • Kal El, why do you insist on mentioning the actions of Muslims that do not represent the actions of all Muslims as a whole nor the teachings of Islam? Give me evidence in the Quran where it allows a man to rape a woman. You will never find it.
    Men (of ALL race and religion) rape women around the world. This isn't new to you. You just simply try to find any way to make Muslims look like they are involved in this alone. It's called being ignorant and racist.
    And by the way, there's NO such thing as "family honor" in Islam. It's just another worthless propaganda set out by the West. Unless of course you can find me evidence in the Quran, than by all means, go ahead.
  • Kal El, why do you insist on mentioning the actions of Muslims that do not represent the actions of all Muslims as a whole nor the teachings of Islam? Give me evidence in the Quran where it allows a man to rape a woman. You will never find it.
    Men (of ALL race and religion) rape women all over the world. This isn't new to you. You just simply try to find any way to make Muslims look like they are involved in this alone. It's called being ignorant and racist.
    And by the way, there's NO such thing as "family honor" in Islam. It's just another worthless propaganda set out by the West. Unless of course you can find me evidence in the Quran, than by all means, go ahead.
  • Kal El, why do you insist on mentioning the actions of Muslims that do not represent the actions of Muslims as a whole nor the teachings of Islam? Give me evidence in the Quran where it allows a man to rape a woman. You will never find it.
    Men (of ALL race and religion) rape women all over the world. This isn't new to you. You just simply try to find any way to make Muslims look like they are involved in this alone. It's called being ignorant and racist.
    And by the way, there's NO such thing as "family honor" in Islam. It's just another worthless propaganda set out by the West. Unless of course you can find me evidence in the Quran, than by all means, go ahead.
  • "There are lots of Westerners working in Saudi Arabia"
    Beej, do you not even make sense of your own words? You even said it YOURSELF. "Westerners Working". Meaning they are NOT Saudi Arabian. ALL Saudi Arabians are MUSLIMS, therefore they are applying THEIR standards of living according to
    THEIR own people. How does that NOT
    make sense to you? Are there not OTHER Muslim countries that have Churches as there are Christian RESIDENTS of that country?
    And what a Muslim President/Leader decides, doesn't make him the best of Muslims. Muslim countries shouldn't be called "Islamic countries", seeing as not ONE Muslim country applies all the rules of Islam. The problem is that NOBODY wants to understand that.
  • Kal El, why do you insist on mentioning the actions of Muslims that do not represent the actions of Muslims as a whole or the teachings of Islam? Give me evidence in the Quran where it allows a man to rape a woman. You will never find it.
    Men (of ALL race and religion) rape women all over the world. This isn't new to you. You just simply try to find any way to make Muslims look like they are involved in this alone. It's called being ignorant and racist.
    And by the way, there's NO such thing as "family honor" in Islam. It's just another worthless propaganda set out by the West. Unless of course you can find me evidence in the Quran, than by all means, go ahead.
  • Kal El, why do you insist on mentioning the actions of Muslims that do not represent the actions of Muslims as a whole or the teachings of Islam? Give me evidence in the Quran where it allows a man to rape a woman. You will never find it. Men (of ALL race and religion) rape women all over the world. This isn't new to you. You just simply try to find any way to make Muslims look like they are involved in this alone. It's called being ignorant and racist.
    And by the way, there's NO such thing as "family honor" in Islam. It's just another worthless propaganda set out by the West. Unless of course you can find me evidence in the Quran, than by all means, go ahead.
  • Kal El, why do you insist on mentioning the actions of Muslims that do not represent the actions of Muslims as a whole or the teachings of Islam? Give me evidence in the Quran where it allows a man to rape a woman. You will never find it. Men (of ALL race and religion) rape women all over the world. This isn't new to you. You just simply try to find any way to make Islam look unacceptable. It's called ignorance and being racist.
    And by the way, there's NO such thing as "family honor" in Islam. It's just another worthless propaganda set out by the West. Unless of course you can find me evidence in the Quran, than by all means, go ahead.
  • Kal El, why do you insist on mentioning the actions of Muslims that do not represent the actions of Muslims as a whole or the teachings of Islam? Give me evidence in the Quran where it allows a man to rape a woman. You will never find it. Men rape women all over the world. This isn't new to you. You just simply try to find any way to make Islam look unacceptable. It's called ignorance and being racist.
    And by the way, there's NO such thing as "family honor" in Islam. It's just another worthless propaganda set out by the West. Unless of course you can find me evidence in the Quran, than by all means, go ahead.
  • Kal El, why do you insist on mentioning the actions of Muslims that do not represent the actions of Muslims as a whole? Give me evidence in the Quran where it allows a man to rape a woman. You will never find it. Men rape women all over the world. This isn't new to you. You just simply try to find any way to make Islam look unacceptable. It's called ignorance and being racist.
    And by the way, there's NO such thing as "family honor" in Islam. It's just another worthless propaganda set out by the West. Unless of course you can find me evidence in the Quran, than by all means, go ahead.
  • I am fully aware of the teachings of Christianity, including Judaism. That is simply because Muslims believe that all God's Messengers were the chosen people to tell mankind about the existence of ONE God. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all derive from the same source; through Abraham (peace be upon him).

    Muslims believe that the Torah, the Bible, and the Quran to be the word of God. But Muslims also believe the original Books have been altered. And I'm not saying this to offend anyone. I'm talking literally. Are there not DIFFERENT versions of the Torah and the Bible today? How many versions of the Quran do you see today? Only ONE, and all being the SAME, making it authentic.

    Jews and Christians are regarded in Islam to be "People of the Book", because they follow the same Messengers, such as Moses (peace be upon him) and Jesus (peace be upon him). It's not about what you want to name the religion. Because in essence, ALL the Messengers (Moses, Jesus, Mohammad [peace be upon them all]) came down with ONE message, believing in the same ONE God.

    "And We sent, following in their footsteps, Jesus son of Mary, confirming the Torah before him, and We gave to him the Gospel, wherein is guidance and light, and confirming the Torah before it, as a guidance and an admonition unto the GOD- fearing."
    –The Quran [5:46]

    This is why I don't understand how Christians and Jews can say foul things about Islam. People are against something they clearly don't understand. And this is why I am against everyone's statements here. Not because of their religion, but because of their ignorance towards Islam and Muslims.
  • I am fully aware of the teachings of Christianity, including Judaism. That is simply because Muslims believe that all God's Messengers were the chosen people to tell mankind about the existence of ONE God. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all derive from the same source; through Abraham (peace be upon him).

    Muslims believe that the Torah, the Bible, and the Quran to be the word of God. But Muslims also believe the original Books have been altered. And I'm not saying this to offend anyone. I'm talking literally. Are there not DIFFERENT versions of the Torah and the Bible today? How many versions of the Quran do you see today? Only ONE, and all being the SAME, making it authentic.

    Jews and Christians are regarded in Islam to be "People of the Book", because they follow the same Messengers, such as Moses (peace be upon him) and Jesus (peace be upon him). It's not about what you want to name the religion. Because in essence, ALL the Messengers (Moses, Jesus, Mohammad [peace be upon them all]) came down with ONE message, believing in the same ONE God.

    "And We sent, following in their footsteps, Jesus son of Mary, confirming the Torah before him, and We gave to him the Gospel, wherein is guidance and light, and confirming the Torah before it, as a guidance and an admonition unto the GOD- fearing." –The Quran [5:46]

    This is why I don't understand how Christians and Jews can say foul things about Islam. People are against something they clearly don't understand. And this is why I am against everyone's statements here. Not because of their religion, but because of their ignorance towards Islam and Muslims.
  • I am fully aware of the teachings of Christianity, including Judaism. That is simply because Muslims believe that all God's Messengers were the chosen people to tell mankind about the existence of ONE God. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all derive from the same source; through Abraham (peace be upon him).

    Muslims believe that the Torah, the Bible, and the Quran to be the word of God. But Muslims also believe the original Books have been altered. And I'm not saying this to offend anyone. I'm talking literally. Are there not DIFFERENT versions of the Torah and the Bible today? How many versions of the Quran do you see today? Only ONE, and all being the SAME, making it authentic.

    Jews and Christians are regarded in Islam to be "People of the Book", because they follow the same Messengers, such as Moses (peace be upon him) and Jesus (peace be upon him). It's not about what you name the religion. Because in essence, ALL the Messengers (Moses, Jesus, Mohammad [peace be upon them all]) came down with ONE message, believing in the same ONE God.

    "And We sent, following in their footsteps, Jesus son of Mary, confirming the Torah before him, and We gave to him the Gospel, wherein is guidance and light, and confirming the Torah before it, as a guidance and an admonition unto the GOD- fearing." –The Quran [5:46]

    This is why I don't understand how Christians and Jews can say foul things about Islam. People are against something they clearly don't understand. And this is why I am against everyone's statements here. Not because of their religion, but because of their ignorance towards Islam and Muslims.
  • I am fully aware of the teachings of Christianity, including Judaism. That is simply because Muslims believe that all God's Messengers were the chosen people to tell mankind about the existence of ONE God. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all derive from the same source; through Abraham (peace be upon him).

    Muslims believe that the Torah, the Bible, and the Quran to be the word of God. But we believe the original Books have been altered. And I'm not saying this to offend anyone. I'm talking literally. Are there not DIFFERENT versions of the Torah and the Bible today? How many versions of the Quran do you see today? Only One, and all being the SAME, making it authentic.

    Jews and Christians are regarded in Islam to be "People of the Book", because they follow the same Messengers, such as Moses (peace be upon him) and Jesus (peace be upon him). It's not about what you name the religion. Because in essence, ALL the Messengers (Moses, Jesus, Mohammad [peace be upon them all]) came down with ONE message, believing in the same ONE God.

    "And We sent, following in their footsteps, Jesus son of Mary, confirming the Torah before him, and We gave to him the Gospel, wherein is guidance and light, and confirming the Torah before it, as a guidance and an admonition unto the GOD- fearing." –The Quran [5:46]

    This is why I don't understand how Christians and Jews can say foul things about Islam. People are against something they clearly don't understand. And this is why I am against everyone's statements here. Not because of their religion, but because of their ignorance towards Islam and Muslims.
  • I am fully aware of the teachings of Christianity, including Judaism. That is simply because Muslims believe that all God's Messengers were the chosen people to tell mankind about the existence of ONE God. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all derive from the same source; through Abraham (peace be upon him).

    Muslims believe that the Torah, the Bible, and the Quran to be the word of God. But we believe the original Books have been altered. And I'm not saying this to offend anyone. I'm talking literally. Are there not DIFFERENT versions of the Torah and the Bible today? How many versions of the Quran do you see today? Only One, and all being the SAME, making it authentic.

    Jews and Christians are regarded in Islam to be "People of the Book", because they follow the same Messengers, such as Moses (peace be upon him) and Jesus (peace be upon him). It's not about what you name the religion. Because in essence, ALL the Messengers (Moses, Jesus, Mohammad [peace be upon them all]) came down with ONE message, believing in the same ONE God.

    "And We sent, following in their footsteps, Jesus son of Mary, confirming the Torah before him, and We gave to him the Gospel, wherein is guidance and light, and confirming the Torah before it, as a guidance and an admonition unto the GOD- fearing." –The Quran [5:46]

    This is why I don't understand how Christians and Jews can say foul things about Islam. People are against something they clearly don't understand. And this is why I am against everyone's statements here. Not because of their religion, but because of their ignorance towards Islam and Muslims.
  • I am fully aware of the teachings of Christianity, including Judaism. That is simply because Muslims believe that all God's Messengers were the chosen people to tell mankind about the existence of ONE God. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all derive from the same source; through Abraham (peace be upon him).

    Muslims believe that the Torah, the Bible, and the Quran to be the word of God. But we believe the original Books have been altered. And I'm not saying this to offend anyone. I'm talking literally. Are there not DIFFERENT versions of the Torah and the Bible today? How many versions of the Quran do you see today? Only One, and all being the SAME, making it authentic.

    Jews and Christians are regarded in Islam to be "People of the Book", because they follow the same Messengers, such as Moses (peace be upon him) and Jesus (peace be upon him). It's not about what you name the religion. Because in essence, ALL the Messengers (Moses, Jesus, Mohammad) came down with ONE message, believing in the same ONE God.

    "And We sent, following in their footsteps, Jesus son of Mary, confirming the Torah before him, and We gave to him the Gospel, wherein is guidance and light, and confirming the Torah before it, as a guidance and an admonition unto the GOD- fearing." –The Quran [5:46]

    This is why I don't understand how Christians and Jews can say foul things about Islam. People are against something they clearly don't understand. And this is why I am against everyone's statements here. Not because of their religion, but because of their ignorance towards Islam and Muslims.
  • I am fully aware of the teachings of Christianity, including Judaism. That is simply because Muslims believe that all God's Messengers were the chosen people to tell mankind about the existence of ONE God. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all derive from the same source; through Abraham (peace be upon him).

    Muslims believe that the Torah, the Bible, and the Quran to be the word of God. But we believe the original Books have been altered. And I'm not saying this to offend anyone. I'm talking literally. Are there not DIFFERENT versions of the Torah and the Bible today? How many versions of the Quran do you see today? Only One, and all being the SAME, making it authentic.

    Jews and Christians are regarded in Islam to be "People of the Book", because they follow the same Messengers, such as Moses (peace be upon him) and Jesus (peace be upon him). It's not about what you name the religion. Because in essence, ALL the Messengers (Moses, Jesus, Mohammad) came down with ONE message, believing in the same ONE God.

    "And We sent, following in their footsteps, Jesus son of Mary, confirming the Torah before him, and We gave to him the Gospel, wherein is guidance and light, and confirming the Torah before it, as a guidance and an admonition unto the GOD- fearing." –The Quran [5:46]

    This is why I don't understand how Christians and Jews can say foul things about Islam. People are against something they clearly don't understand. And this is why I am against everyone's statements here. Not because of their religion, but because of their ignorance towards Islam and Muslims.
  • I am fully aware of the teachings of Christianity, including Judaism. That is simply because Muslims believe that all God's Messengers were the chosen people to tell mankind about the existence of ONE God. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all derive from the same source; through Abraham.

    Muslims believe that the Torah, the Bible, and the Quran to be the word of God. But we believe the original Books have been altered. And I'm not saying this to offend anyone. I'm talking literally. Are there not DIFFERENT versions of the Torah and the Bible today? How many versions of the Quran do you see today? Only One, and all being the SAME, making it authentic.

    Jews and Christians are regarded in Islam to be "People of the Book", because they follow the same Messengers, such as Moses (peace be upon him) and Jesus (peace be upon him). It's not about what you name the religion. Because in essence, ALL the Messengers (Moses, Jesus, Mohammad) came down with ONE message, believing in the same ONE God.

    "And We sent, following in their footsteps, Jesus son of Mary, confirming the Torah before him, and We gave to him the Gospel, wherein is guidance and light, and confirming the Torah before it, as a guidance and an admonition unto the GOD- fearing." –The Quran [5:46]

    This is why I don't understand how Christians and Jews can say foul things about Islam. People are against something they clearly don't understand. And this is why I am against everyone's statements here. Not because of their religion, but because of their ignorance towards Islam and Muslims.
  • I am fully aware of the teachings of Christianity, including Judaism. That is simply because Muslims believe that all God's Messengers were the chosen people to tell mankind about the existence of ONE God. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all derive from the same source; meaning Abraham.

    Muslims believe that the Torah, the Bible, and the Quran to be the word of God. But we believe the original Books have been altered. And I'm not saying this to offend anyone. I'm talking literally. Are there not DIFFERENT versions of the Torah and the Bible today? How many versions of the Quran do you see today? Only One, and all being the SAME, making it authentic.

    Jews and Christians are regarded in Islam to be "People of the Book", because they follow the same Messengers, such as Moses (peace be upon him) and Jesus (peace be upon him). It's not about what you name the religion. Because in essence, ALL the Messengers (Moses, Jesus, Mohammad) came down with ONE message, believing in the same ONE God.

    "And We sent, following in their footsteps, Jesus son of Mary, confirming the Torah before him, and We gave to him the Gospel, wherein is guidance and light, and confirming the Torah before it, as a guidance and an admonition unto the GOD- fearing." –The Quran [5:46]

    This is why I don't understand how Christians and Jews can say foul things about Islam. People are against something they clearly don't understand. And this is why I am against everyone's statements here. Not because of their religion, but because of their ignorance towards Islam and Muslims.
  • I am fully aware of the teachings of Christianity, including Judaism. That is simply because Muslims believe that all God's Messengers were the chosen people to tell mankind about the existence of ONE God. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all derive from the same source; meaning Abraham.
    Muslims believe that the Torah, the Bible, and the Quran to be the word of God. But we believe the original Books have been altered. And I'm not saying this to offend anyone. I'm talking literally. Are there not DIFFERENT versions of the Torah and the Bible today? How many versions of the Quran do you see today? Only One, and all being the SAME, making it authentic.
    Jews and Christians are regarded in Islam to be "People of the Book", because they follow the same Messengers, such as Moses (peace be upon him) and Jesus (peace be upon him). It's not about what you name the religion. Because in essence, ALL the Messengers (Moses, Jesus, Mohammad) came down with ONE message, believing in the same ONE God.

    "And We sent, following in their footsteps, Jesus son of Mary, confirming the Torah before him, and We gave to him the Gospel, wherein is guidance and light, and confirming the Torah before it, as a guidance and an admonition unto the GOD- fearing." –The Quran [5:46]

    This is why I don't understand how Christians and Jews can say foul things about Islam. People are against something they clearly don't understand. And this is why I am against everyone's statements here. Not because of their religion, but because of their ignorance towards Islam and Muslims.
  • I am fully aware of the teachings of Christianity, including Judaism. That is simply because Muslims believe that all God's Messengers were the chosen people to tell mankind about the existence of ONE God. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all derive from the same source; meaning Abraham.
    Muslims believe that the Torah, the Bible, and the Quran to be the word of God. But we believe the original Books have been altered. And I'm not saying this to offend anyone. I'm talking literally. Are there not DIFFERENT versions of the Torah and the Bible today? How many versions of the Quran do you see today? Only One, and all being the SAME, making it authentic.
    Jews and Christians are regarded in Islam to be "People of the Book", because they follow the same Messengers, such as Moses (peace be upon him) and Jesus (peace be upon him). It's not about what you name the religion. Because in essence, ALL the Messengers (Moses, Jesus, Mohammad) came down with ONE message, believing in the same ONE God.
    This is why I don't understand how Christians and Jews can say foul things about Islam. People are against something they clearly don't understand. And this is why I am against everyone's statements here. Not because of their religion, but because of their ignorance towards Islam and Muslims.
  • I am fully aware of the teachings of Christianity, including Judaism. That is simply because Muslims believe that all God's Messengers were the chosen people to tell mankind about the existence of ONE God. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all derive from the same source; meaning Abraham.
    Muslims believe that the Torah, the Bible, and the Quran to be the word of God. But we believe the original Books have been altered. And I'm not saying this to offend anyone. I'm talking literally. Are there not DIFFERENT versions of the Torah and the Bible today? How many versions of the Quran do you see today? Only One, and all being the SAME, making it authentic.
    Jews and Christians are regarded in Islam to be "People of the Book", because they follow the same Messengers, such as Moses (peace be upon him) and Jesus (peace be upon him). It's not about what you name the religion. Because in essence, ALL the Messengers (Moses, Jesus, Mohammad) came down with ONE message, and that is to tell mankind of the existence of ONE God.
    This is why I don't understand how Christians and Jews can say foul things about Islam. People are against something they clearly don't understand. And this is why I am against everyone's statements here. Not because of their religion, but because of their ignorance towards Islam and Muslims.
  • I am fully aware of the teachings of Christianity, including Judaism. That is simply because Muslims believe that all God's Messengers were the chosen people to tell mankind about the existence of ONE God. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all derive from the same source; meaning Abraham.
    Muslims believe that the Torah, the Bible, and the Quran to be the word of God. But we believe the original Books have been altered. And I'm not saying this to offend anyone. I'm talking literally. Are there not DIFFERENT versions of the Torah and the Bible today? How many versions of the Quran do you see today? Only One, and all being the SAME, making it authentic.
    Jews and Christians are regarded in Islam to be "People of the Book", because they follow the same Messengers of Moses (peace be upon him) and Jesus (peace be upon him). It's not about what you name the religion. Because in essence, ALL the Messengers (Moses, Jesus, Mohammad) came down with ONE message, and that is to tell mankind of the existence of ONE God.
    This is why I don't understand how Christians and Jews can say foul things about Islam. People are against something they clearly don't understand. And this is why I am against everyone's statements here. Not because of their religion, but because of their ignorance towards Islam and Muslims.
  • I am fully aware of the teachings of Christianity, including Judaism. That is simply because Muslims believe that all God's Messengers were the chosen people to tell mankind about the existence of ONE God. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all derive from the same source; meaning Abraham.
    Muslims believe that the Torah, the Bible, and the Quran to be the word of God. But we believe the original Books have been altered. And I'm not saying this to offend anyone. I'm talking literally. Are there not DIFFERENT versions of the Torah and the Bible today? How many versions of the Quran do you see today? Only One, and all being the SAME, making it authentic.
    Jews and Christians are regarded in Islam to be "People of the Book". Because they follow the Messengers like Moses (peace be upon him) and Jesus (peace be upon him). It's not about what you name the religion. Because in essence, ALL the Messengers (Moses, Jesus, Mohammad) came down with ONE message, and that is to tell mankind of the existence of ONE God.
    This is why I don't understand how Christians and Jews can say foul things about Islam. People are against something they clearly don't understand. And this is why I am against everyone's statements here. Not because of their religion, but because of their ignorance towards Islam and Muslims.
  • I am fully aware of the teachings of Christianity, including Judaism. That is simply because Muslims believe that all God's Messengers were chosen people to tell mankind about the existence of ONE God. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all derive from the same source; meaning Abraham.
    Muslims believe that the Torah, the Bible, and the Quran to be the word of God. But we believe the original Books have been altered. And I'm not saying this to offend anyone. I'm talking literally. Are there not DIFFERENT versions of the Torah and the Bible today? How many versions of the Quran do you see today? Only One, and all being the SAME, making it authentic.
    Jews and Christians are regarded in Islam to be "People of the Book". Because they follow the Messengers like Moses (peace be upon him) and Jesus (peace be upon him). It's not about what you name the religion. Because in essence, ALL the Messengers (Moses, Jesus, Mohammad) came down with ONE message, and that is to tell mankind of the existence of ONE God.
    This is why I don't understand how Christians and Jews can say foul things about Islam. People are against something they clearly don't understand. And this is why I am against everyone's statements here. Not because of their religion, but because of their ignorance towards Islam and Muslims.
  • I am fully aware of the teachings of Christianity, including Judaism. That is simply because Muslims believe that all God's Messengers were chosen people to tell mankind about the existence of ONE God. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all derive from the same source; meaning Abraham.
    Muslims believe that the Torah, the Bible, and the Quran to be the word of God. But we believe the original Books have been altered. And I'm not saying this to offend anyone. I'm talking literally. Are there not DIFFERENT versions of the Torah and the Bible today? How many versions of the Quran do you see today? Only One, and all being the SAME, making it authentic.
    Jews and Christians are regarded in Islam to be "People of the Book". Because they follow the Messengers like Moses (peace be upon him) and Jesus (peace be upon him). It's not about what you name the religion. Because in essence, ALL the Messengers (Moses, Jesus, Mohammad) came down with ONE message, and that is to tell mankind of the existence of ONE God.
    This is why I don't understand how Christians and Jews can say foul things about Islam. People are against something they clearly don't understand. And this is why I am against everyone's statements here. Not because of their religion, but because of their ignorance towards Islam and Muslims.
  • I am fully aware of the teachings of Christianity, including Judaism. That is simply because Muslims believe that all God's Messengers were chosen people to inform people about the existence of ONE God. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all derive from the same source; meaning Abraham.
    Muslims believe that the Torah, the Bible, and the Quran to be the word of God. But we believe the original Books have been altered. And I'm not saying this to offend anyone. I'm talking literally. Are there not DIFFERENT versions of the Torah and the Bible today? How many versions of the Quran do you see today? Only One, and all being the SAME, making it authentic.
    Jews and Christians are regarded in Islam to be "People of the Book". Because they follow the Messengers like Moses (peace be upon him) and Jesus (peace be upon him). It's not about what you name the religion. Because in essence, ALL the Messengers (Moses, Jesus, Mohammad) came down with ONE message, and that is to tell mankind of the existence of ONE God.
    This is why I don't understand how Christians and Jews can say foul things about Islam. People are against something they clearly don't understand. And this is why I am against everyone's statements here. Not because of their religion, but because of their ignorance towards Islam and Muslims.
  • "There are lots of Westerners working in Saudi Arabia"
    Beej, do you not even understand your OWN words? You even said it YOURSELF. "Westerners Working". Meaning they are NOT Saudi Arabian. ALL Saudi Arabians are MUSLIMS, therefore they are applying THEIR standards of living ACCORDING to
    THEIR own people. How does that NOT
    make sense to you? Are there not OTHER Muslim countries that have Churches as there are Christian RESIDENTS of that country?
    And what a Muslim President/Leader decides, doesn't make him the best of Muslims. Muslim countries shouldn't be called "Islamic countries", seeing as not ONE Muslim country applies all the rules of Islam. The problem is that NOBODY wants to understand that.
  • "There are lots of Westerners working in Saudi Arabia"
    Beej, do you not even understand your OWN words? You even said it YOURSELF. "Westerners Working". Meaning they are NOT Saudi Arabian. ALL Saudi Arabians are MUSLIMS, therefore they are applying THEIR standards of living ACCORDING to
    THEIR own people. How does that NOT
    make sense to you? Are there not OTHER Muslim countries that have Churches as there are Christian RESIDENTS of that country?
    And not all Muslim Presidents are exactly the best of Muslims. In fact, Muslim countries shouldn't be called "Islamic countries" seeing as NOT ONE Muslim country applies all the rules of Islam. The problem is that NOBODY wants to understand that.
  • "There are lots of Westerners working in Saudi Arabia"
    Beej, do you NOT even understand your own words? You even said it YOURSELF. "Westerners Working". Meaning they are NOT Saudi Arabian. ALL Saudi Arabians are MUSLIMS, therefore they are applying THEIR standards of living ACCORDING to
    THEIR own people. How does that NOT
    make sense to you? Are there not OTHER Muslim countries that have Churches as there are Christian RESIDENTS of that country?
    And not all Muslim Presidents are exactly the best of Muslims. In fact, Muslim countries shouldn't be called "Islamic countries" seeing as NOT ONE Muslim country applies all the rules of Islam. The problem is that NOBODY wants to understand that.
  • "There are lots of Westerners working in Saudi Arabia"
    Beej, do you NOT even understand your own words? You even said it YOURSELF. "Westerners Working". Meaning they are NOT Saudi Arabian. ALL Saudi Arabians are MUSLIMS, therefore they are applying THEIR standards of living ACCORDING to
    THEIR own people. How does that NOT
    make sense to you? Are there not OTHER Muslim countries that have Churches as there are Christian RESIDENTS of that country?
    And not all Muslim leaders today are exactly the best of Muslims. In fact, Muslim countries shouldn't be called "Islamic countries" seeing as NOT ONE Muslim country applies all the rules of Islam. The problem is that NOBODY wants to understand that.
  • I am fully aware of the teachings of Christianity, and even Judaism. Why? Because Muslims believe that all God's Messengers were the chosen people to inform people about the existence of ONE God. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all derive from the same source; meaning Abraham.
    Muslims believe that the Torah, the Bible, and the Quran to be the word of God. But we believe the original Books have been altered. And I'm not saying this to offend anyone. I'm talking literally. Are there not DIFFERENT versions of the Torah and the Bible today? How many versions of the Quran do you see today? Only One, and all being the SAME, making it authentic.
    Jews and Christians are regarded in Islam to be "People of the Book". Because they follow the Messengers like Moses (peace be upon him) and Jesus (peace be upon him). It's not about what you name the religion. Because in essence, ALL the Messengers (Moses, Jesus, Mohammad) came down with ONE message, and that is to tell mankind of the existence of ONE God.
    This is why I don't understand how Christians and Jews can say foul things about Islam. People are against something they clearly don't understand. And this is why I am against everyone's statements here. Not because of their religion, but because of their ignorance towards Islam and Muslims.
  • I am fully aware of the teachings of Christianity, and even Judaism. Why? Because Muslims believe that all God's Messengers were the chosen people to inform people about the existence of ONE God. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all derive from the same source; meaning Abraham.
    Muslims believe that the Torah, the Bible, and the Quran to be the word of God. But we believe the original Books have been altered. And I'm not saying this to offend anyone. I'm talking literally. Are there not DIFFERENT versions of the Torah and the Bible today? How many versions of the Quran do you see today? Only One, and all being the SAME, making it authentic.
    Jews and Christians are regarded in Islam to be "People of the Book". Because they follow the Messengers like Moses (peace be upon him) and Jesus (peace be upon him). It's not about what you name the religion. Because in essence, ALL the Messengers (Moses, Jesus, Mohammad) came down with ONE message, and that is to tell mankind of the existence of ONE God.
    This is why I don't understand how Christians and Jews can say foul things about Islam. They're all against something they clearly don't understand. And this is why I am against everyone's statements here. Not because of their religion, but because of their ignorance towards Islam and Muslims.
  • I am fully aware of the teachings of Christianity, and even Judaism. Why? Because Muslims believe that all God's Messengers were the chosen people to inform people about the existence of ONE God. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all derive from the same source; meaning Abraham.
    Muslims believe that the Torah, the Bible, and the Quran to be the word of God. But we believe the original Books have been altered. And I'm not saying this to offend anyone. I'm talking literally. Are there not DIFFERENT versions of the Torah and the Bible today? How many versions of the Quran do you see today? Only One, and all being the SAME, making it authentic.
    Jews and Christians are regarded in Islam to be "People of the Book". Because they follow the Messengers like Moses (peace be upon him) and Jesus (peace be upon him). It's not about what you name the religion. Because in essence, ALL the Messengers (Moses, Jesus, Mohammad) came down with ONE message, and that is to tell mankind of the existence of ONE God.
    This is why I don't understand how Christians and Jews can say foul things about Islam. They're all against something they clearly don't understand. And that is why I am against everyone's statements here. Not because of their religion, but because of their ignorance towards Islam and Muslims.
  • I am fully aware of the teachings of Christianity, and even Judaism. Why? Because Muslims believe that all God's Messengers were the chosen people to inform people about the existence of ONE God. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all derive from the same source; meaning Abraham.
    Muslims believe that the Torah, the Bible, and the Quran to be the word of God. But we believe the original Books have been altered. And I'm not saying this to offend anyone. I'm talking literally. Are there not DIFFERENT versions of the Torah and the Bible today? How many versions of the Quran do you see today? Only One, and all being the SAME, making it authentic.
    Jews and Christians are regarded in Islam to be "people of the Book". Because they follow the Messengers like Moses (peace be upon him) and Jesus (peace be upon him). It's not about what you name the religion. Because in essence, ALL the Messengers (Moses, Jesus, Mohammad) came down with ONE message, and that is to tell mankind of the existence of ONE God.
    This is why I don't understand how Christians and Jews can say foul things about Islam. We should all be on the same side. And that is why I am against everyone's statements here. Not because of their religion, but because of their ignorance towards Islam and Muslims.
  • I am fully aware of the teachings of Christianity, and even Judaism. Why? Because Muslims believe that all God's Messengers were the chosen people to inform people about the existence of ONE God. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all derive from the same source; meaning Abraham.
    Muslims believe that the Torah, the Bible, and the Quran to be the word of God. But we believe the original Books have been altered. And I'm not saying this to offend anyone. I'm talking literally. Are there not DIFFERENT versions of the Torah and the Bible today? How many versions of the Quran do you see today? Only One, and all being the SAME, making it authentic.
    Jews and Christians are regarded in Islam to be "people of the Book". Because they follow the Messengers like Moses (peace be upon him) and Jesus (peace be upon him). It's not about what you name the religion. Because in essence, ALL the Messengers (Moses, Jesus, Mohammad) came down with ONE message, and that is to tell mankind of the existence of ONE God.
    This is why I don't understand how Christians and Jews can say foul things about Islam. We should all be on the same side. This is why I am against everyone's statements here. Not because of their religion, but because of their ignorance towards Islam and Muslims.
  • I am fully aware of the teachings of Christianity, and even Judaism. Why? Because Muslims believe that all God's Messengers were the chosen people to inform people about the existence of ONE God. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all derive from the same source; meaning Abraham.
    Muslims believe that the Torah, the Bible, and the Quran to be the word of God. But we believe the original Books have been altered. And I'm not saying this to offend anyone. I'm talking literally. Are there not DIFFERENT versions of the Torah and the Bible today? How many versions of the Quran do you see today? Only One, and all being the SAME, making it authentic.
    Jews and Christians are regarded in Islam to be "people of the Book". Because they follow the Messengers like Moses (peace be upon him) and Jesus (peace be upon him). It's not about what you name the religion. Because in essence, ALL the Messengers (Moses, Jesus, Mohammad) came down with ONE message, and that is to tell mankind of the existence of ONE God.
    This why I don't understand how Christians and Jews can say foul things about Islam. We should all be on the same side. This is why I am against everyone's statements here. Not because of their religion, but because of their ignorance towards Islam and Muslims.
  • I am fully aware of the teachings of Christianity, and even Judaism. Why? Because Muslims believe that all God's Messengers were the chosen people to inform people about the existence of ONE God. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all derive from the same source; meaning Abraham.
    Muslims believe that the Torah, the Bible, and the Quran to be the word of God. But we believe the original Books have been altered. And I'm not saying this to offend anyone. I'm talking literally. Are there not DIFFERENT versions of the Torah and the Bible today? How many versions of the Quran do you see today? Only One, and all being the SAME.
    Jews and Christians are regarded in Islam to be "people of the Book". Because they follow the Messengers like Moses (peace be upon him) and Jesus (peace be upon him). It's not about what you name the religion. Because in essence, ALL the Messengers (Moses, Jesus, Mohammad) came down with ONE message, and that is to tell mankind of the existence of ONE God.
    This why I don't understand how Christians and Jews can say foul things about Islam. We should all be on the same side. This is why I am against everyone's statements here. Not because of their religion, but because of their ignorance towards Islam and Muslims.
  • I am fully aware of the teachings of Christianity, and even Judaism. Why? Because Muslims believe that all God's Messengers were the chosen people to inform people about the existence of ONE God. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all derive from the same source; meaning Abraham.
    Muslims believe that the Torah, the Bible, and the Torah to be the word of God. But we believe the original Books have been altered. And I'm not saying this to offend anyone. I'm talking literally. Are there not DIFFERENT versions of the Torah and the Bible today? How many versions of the Quran do you see today? Only One, and all being the SAME.
    Jews and Christians are regarded in Islam to be "people of the Book". Because they follow the Messengers like Moses (peace be upon him) and Jesus (peace be upon him). It's not about what you name the religion. Because in essence, ALL the Messengers (Moses, Jesus, Mohammad) came down with ONE message, and that is to tell mankind of the existence of ONE God.
    This why I don't understand how Christians and Jews can say foul things about Islam. We should all be on the same side. This is why I am against everyone's statements here. Not because of their religion, but because of their ignorance towards Islam and Muslims.
  • I am fully aware of the teachings of Christianity, and even Judaism. Why? Because Muslims believe that all God's Messengers were the chosen people to inform people about the existence of ONE God. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all derive from the same source, and that would be from Abraham.
    Muslims believe that the Torah, the Bible, and the Torah to be the word of God. But we believe the original Books have been altered. And I'm not saying this to offend anyone. I'm talking literally. Are there not DIFFERENT versions of the Torah and the Bible today? How many versions of the Quran do you see today? Only One, and all being the SAME.
    Jews and Christians are regarded in Islam to be "people of the Book". Because they follow the Messengers like Moses (peace be upon him) and Jesus (peace be upon him). It's not about what you name the religion. Because in essence, ALL the Messengers (Moses, Jesus, Mohammad) came down with ONE message, and that is to tell mankind of the existence of ONE God.
    This why I don't understand how Christians and Jews can say foul things about Islam. We should all be on the same side. This is why I am against everyone's statements here. Not because of their religion, but because of their ignorance towards Islam and Muslims.
  • "There are lots of Westerners working in Saudi Arabia"
    Beej, do you NOT even understand your own words? You even said it YOURSELF. "Westerners Working". Meaning they are NOT Saudi Arabian. ALL Saudi Arabians are MUSLIMS, therefore they are applying THEIR standards of living ACCORDING to
    THEIR own people. How does that NOT
    make sense to you? Are there not OTHER Muslim countries that have Churches as there are Christian RESIDENTS of that country?
    And most Muslim leaders today are not exactly the "best" of Muslims. In fact, Muslim countries shouldn't be called "Islamic countries" seeing as NOT ONE Muslim country applies all the rules of Islam. That's what NOBODY wants to understand. The same applies to Jews, or Christians, or any other religion for that matter.
  • "There are lots of Westerners working in Saudi Arabia"
    Beej, do you NOT even understand your own words? You even said it YOURSELF. "Westerners Working". Meaning they are NOT Saudi Arabian. ALL Saudi Arabians are MUSLIMS, therefore they are applying THEIR standards of living ACCORDING to
    THEIR own people. How does that NOT
    make sense to you? Are there not OTHER Muslim countries that have Churches as there are Christian RESIDENTS of that country?
    And not all Muslim leaders are exactly what you'd call the "best" of Muslims. In fact, Muslim countries shouldn't be called "Islamic countries" seeing as NOT ONE Muslim country applies all the rules of Islam. That's what NOBODY wants to understand. The same applies to Jews, or Christians, or any other religion for that matter.
  • "There are lots of Westerners working in Saudi Arabia"
    Beej, do you NOT even understand your own words? You even said it YOURSELF. "Westerners Working". Meaning they are NOT Saudi Arabian. ALL Saudi Arabians are MUSLIMS, therefore they are applying THEIR standards of living ACCORDING to
    THEIR own people. How does that NOT
    make sense to you? Are there not OTHER Muslim countries that have Churches as there are Christian RESIDENTS of that country.
    And not all Muslim leaders are exactly what you'd call the "best" of Muslims. In fact, Muslim countries shouldn't be called "Islamic countries" seeing as NOT ONE Muslim country applies all the rules of Islam. That's what NOBODY wants to understand. The same applies to Jews, or Christians, or any other religion for that matter.
  • "There are lots of Westerners working in Saudi Arabia"
    Beej, do you NOT even understand your own words? You even said it YOURSELF. "Westerners Working". Meaning they are NOT Saudi Arabian. ALL Saudi Arabians are MUSLIMS, therefore they are applying THEIR standards of living ACCORDING to THEIR own people. How does that NOT make sense to you?
    And not all Muslim leaders are exactly what you'd call the "best" of Muslims. In fact, Muslim countries shouldn't be called "Islamic countries" seeing as NOT ONE Muslim country applies all the rules of Islam. That's what NOBODY wants to understand. The same applies to Jews, or Christians, or any other religion for that matter.
  • Beejj
    Xkon, you are LYING. There are lots of Westerners working in Saudi Arabia. Just think of hospital staff ........ No Christian churches, though.
  • Get your facts straight. America is one of the most diverse countries in the world. In the U.S. ,Islam is the SECOND largest religion right after Christianity. Saudi Arabia's native residents are 100% MUSLIM. It is not like other Muslim countries such as Egypt or Jordon that have Muslims and Christians (which have Churches). And I for one personally agree that everyone should be allowed to practice their own religion. The teachings of Islam have nothing to do with the decisions of Muslim leaders, their actions, or even the cultures within that society. It's the faults of Muslims who do not abide by the teachings of Islam, and then call themselves educated Muslims.
  • Since Allah in Islam is fundamentally distinct from the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, it follows that ethics, culture and way of life in both religions are essentially incompatible with one another.

    One of the main principles in Islam is that all thought is based on law and justice. The whole of life is influenced by and remains under the law. Sin necessitates expiation. Words similar to the Old Testament are used in the Qur'an, such as, "An eye for an eye, a nose for a nose, an ear for an ear, a tooth for a tooth" (Sura al-Ma'ida 5:49; Exodus 21:23,24).

    Christ, however, taught a new law based on his love, and commanded his disciples, "Love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you and persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven" (Matthew 5:44).

    In Christianity God's love and unconditional grace have become the guiding principles of life. In Islam law and justice are the basis for all thought and behaviour. The everyday language of Muslims abounds with expressions like, "I am in the right" (literally, "The right is with me"), "you are in the wrong" (literally, "The wrong is upon you"). There is no flexibility in deciding the right, and compromises are seldom possible. To compromise would be an injustice.

    Consequently, every sin and mistake merits reprisal and punishment. When sin is not propitiated, then justice is not satisfied. We read in the Old Testament that shed blood cries out to heaven (Genesis 4:10). Murder requires retribution and vengeance. In Islam blood revenge is a law of Allah. It would be unjust to forgive a crime or a mistake casually. In the Old Testament forgiveness was possible only through sacrifices and the shedding of blood. The Muslims do not understand the need for sacrifice nor that all demands of justice in God's law have been fulfilled by Jesus, once for all time and for all people. He shed his own holy blood for those who deserve to die. However, since reconciliation with God through Christ is denied in Islam, the principle of blood revenge is perpetuated. As long as unconditional forgiveness is regarded as unjust in Islam, grace does not supersede justice, but justice overrides grace. Anyone who has been in Islamic countries, the "House of Peace", for a long period of time, knows of endless blood feuds, the revengeful murder of family members for the maintaining of another family's honour.
  • Get your facts straight. America is one of the most diverse countries in the world. In the U.S. ,Islam is the SECOND largest religion right after Christianity. Saudi Arabia's native residents are 100% MUSLIM. It is not like other Muslim countries such as Egypt or Jordon that have Muslims and Christians (which have Churches). And I for one personally agree that everyone should be allowed to practice their own religion. The teachings of Islam have nothing to do with the decisions of Muslim leaders, their actions, or even the cultures of Muslims. It's the faults of Muslims who do not abide by the teachings of Islam, and then call themselves educated Muslims.
  • Get your facts straight. America is one of the most diverse countries in the world. In the U.S. ,Islam is the SECOND largest religion right after Christianity. Saudi Arabia's native residents are 100% MUSLIM. It is not like other Muslim countries such as Egypt or Jordon that have Muslims and Christians (which have Churches). And I for one personally agree that everyone should be allowed to practice their own religion. The teachings of Islam have nothing to do with the decisions of Muslim leaders. It's the faults of Muslims who do not abide by the teachings of Islam, and then call themselves educated Muslims.
  • Get your facts straight. America is one of the most diverse countries in the world. In the U.S. ,Islam is the SECOND largest religion right after Christianity. Saudi Arabia's native residents are 100% MUSLIM. It is not like other Muslim countries such as Egypt or Jordon that have Muslims and Christians (which have Churches). And I for one personally agree that everyone should be allowed to practice their religion. The teachings of Islam have nothing to do with the decisions of Muslim leaders. It's the faults of Muslims who do not abide by the teachings of Islam, and then call themselves educated Muslims.
  • Get your facts straight. America is one of the most diverse countries in the world. In the U.S. ,Islam is the SECOND largest religion right after Christianity. Saudi Arabia's native residents are 100% MUSLIM. It is not like other Muslim countries such as Egypt or Jordon that have Muslims and Christians. And I for one personally agree that everyone should be allowed to practice their religion. The teachings of Islam have nothing to do with the decisions of Muslim leaders. It's the faults of Muslims who do not abide by the teachings of Islam, and then call themselves educated Muslims.
  • Get your facts straight. America is one of the most diverse countries in the world. In the U.S. ,Islam is the SECOND largest religion right after Christianity. Saudi Arabia's native residents are 100% MUSLIM. It is not like other Muslim countries such as Egypt, Jordon, etc. And I for one personally agree that everyone should be allowed to practice their religion. The teachings of Islam have nothing to do with the decisions of Muslim leaders. It's the faults of Muslims who do not abide by the teachings of Islam, and then call themselves educated Muslims.
  • Get your facts straight. America is one of the most diverse countries in the world. In the U.S.,Islam is the SECOND largest religion right after Christianity. Saudi Arabia's native residents are 100% MUSLIM. It is not like other Muslim countries such as Egypt, Jordon, etc. And I for one personally agree that everyone should be allowed to practice their religion. The teachings of Islam have nothing to do with the decisions of Muslim leaders. It's the faults of Muslims who do not abide by the teachings of Islam, and then call themselves educated Muslims.
  • Kal El, why do you INSIST on mentioning the actions of Muslims that set out a BAD example? Give me evidence in the Quran where it allows a man to rape a woman. You will never find it. Men rape women all over the world. This isn't new to you. You just simply try to find any way to make Islam look unacceptable. It's called ignorance and being racist.
    And by the way, there's no such THING as "family honor" in Islam. It's just another worthless propaganda set out by the West. Unless of course you can find me evidence in the Quran, than by all means, go ahead.
  • Kal El, why do you INSIST on mentioning the actions of Muslims that set out a BAD example? Give me evidence in the Quran where it allows a man to rape a woman. You will never find it. Men rape women all over the world. This isn't new to you. You just simply try to find any way to make Islam look unacceptable. It's called ignorance and being racist.
    And by the way, there's no such THING as "family honor" in Islam. It's just another worthless propaganda by the West. Unless of course you can find me evidence in the Quran, than by all means, go ahead.
  • Kal El, why do you INSIST on mentioning the actions of Muslims that set out a BAD example? Give me evidence in the Quran where it allows a man to rape a woman. You will never find it. Men rape women all over the world. This isn't new to you. You just simply try to find any way to make Islam look unacceptable. It's called ignorance and being racist.
  • Get your facts straight. America is one of the most diverse countries in the world. In the U.S.,Islam is the SECOND largest religion right after Christianity. Saudi Arabia's native residents are 100% MUSLIM. It is not like other Muslim countries such as Egypt, Jordon, etc. And I for one personally agree that everyone should be allowed to practice their religion. The religion Islam has nothing to do with the decisions of Muslim leaders. It's the faults of Muslims who do not abide by the teachings of Islam.
  • Get your facts straight. America is one of the most diverse countries in the world. In the U.S.,Islam is the SECOND largest religion right after Christianity. Saudi Arabia's native residents are 100% MUSLIM. It is not like other Muslim countries such as Egypt, Jordon, etc. And I for one personally agree that everyone should be allowed to practice their religion. The religion Islam has nothing to do with the decisions of Muslim leaders. It's the faults of Muslim who do not abide by the teachings of Islam.
  • Get your facts straight. America is one of the most diverse countries in the world. In the U.S.,Islam is the SECOND largest religion right after Christianity. Saudi Arabia's native residents are 100% MUSLIM. It is not like other Muslim countries such as Egypt, Jordon, etc. And I for one personally agree that everyone should be allowed to practice their religion. The religion Islam has nothing to do with this once again. It's the faults of Muslim who do not abide by the teachings of Islam.
  • Get your facts straight. America is one of the most diverse countries in the world. In the U.S.,Islam is the SECOND largest religion right after Christianity. Saudi Arabia is a 100% MUSLIM POPULATION. It is not like other Muslim countries such as Egypt, Jordon, etc. And I for one personally agree that everyone should be allowed to practice their religion. The religion Islam has nothing to do with this once again. It's the faults of Muslim who do not abide by the teachings of Islam.
  • Get your facts straight. America is one of the most diverse countries in the world. In the U.S.,Islam is the SECOND largest religion right after Christianity. Saudi Arabia's is a 100% MUSLIM POPULATION. It is not like other Muslim countries such as Egypt, Jordon, etc. And I for one personally agree that everyone should be allowed to practice their religion. The religion Islam has nothing to do with this once again. It's the faults of Muslim who do not abide by the teachings of Islam.
  • Atheist to Muslim? You're actually asking me that? Here are Atheists, Scientists, Christians, Jews, Zionists, Hindus, and I'm sure your capable of searching for more.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IspK651RpY&fe...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JW5x_GPsXc
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0op5MIyG3Xg&fe...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHuiFWYRAZM&fe...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZadQtDfW7E&fe...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPhY8tuMvPc
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nicjAQiqojw
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DabIO_gwRgo&fe...





    And I have SO much more....
    Beej, you're ignorant and you're a waste of my time.

    As for your statement about there being no Churches in Saudi Arabia. How many times must something be repeated until it gets it through your head? Saudi Arabia is one of the very few countries that has an almost 100% MUSLIM POPULATION.
    Seeing as how many times I have to repeat myself, you only prove me to me that you're definitely not one of the brightest Atheists around.
  • Kal_El
    So because the majority of the populace of Saudi and Iran is muslim, that makes it ok to not have one single church? Then, in accordance with that logic, demolish every single mosque on US soil, as the majority or Americans (citizens and residents) are NOT muslim, right?
  • Kal_El
    If men are the protectors of women in islam, why are muslim men raping muslimahs (Indonesian and Philippina maids in Saudi, Kuwait, Jordan, etc...) and kuffar women (UK for example), and killing their daughters, sisters, and mothers over SUSPECTED acts that taint the family honor? You call that protection?
  • Atheist to Muslim? You're actually asking me that? Here are Atheists, Scientists, and I'm sure your capable of searching for more.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHuiFWYRAZM&fe...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0op5MIyG3Xg&fe...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JW5x_GPsXc&fe...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IspK651RpY&fe...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FA3wcKYcTfw&fe...

    And I have SO much more....
    Beej, you're ignorant and you're a waste of my time.

    As for your statement about there being no Churches in Saudi Arabia. How many times must something be repeated until it gets it through your head? Saudi Arabia is one of the very few countries that has an almost 100% MUSLIM POPULATION.
    Seeing as how many times I have to repeat myself, you only prove me to me that you're definitely not one of the brightest Atheists around.
  • The fundamental difference between the Christian and Muslim concepts of Christ is not in their understanding of his subjection to a higher authority, nor in their common conviction that he was a human being in every respect while on earth. With Muslims, we accept that he spoke only as he was commanded to speak (John 12:49) and that there is one greater than he (John 14:28). We differ primarily in our beliefs about his nature for Islam allows him no more than humanity and prophethood, whereas Christianity teaches that God spoke through him, not as a prophet, but as a Son through whom he made all things, who reflects his glory, and who "bears the very stamp of his nature" (Hebrews 1:3).
  • Atheist to Muslim? You're actually asking me that? Here are Atheists, Scientists, and I'm sure your capable of searching for more.

    <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHuiFWYRAZM&fe...">" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHuiFWYRAZM&fe...

    And I have SO much more....
    Beej, you're ignorant and you're a waste of my time.

    As for your statement about there being no Churches in Saudi Arabia. How many times must something be repeated until it gets it through your head? Saudi Arabia is one of the very few countries that has an almost 100% MUSLIM POPULATION.
    Seeing as how many times I have to repeat myself, you only prove me to me that you're definitely not one of the brightest Atheists around.
  • Christians do not say that "Allah is Christ, the son of Mary" as the Qur'an alleges they do (innallaaha huwal Masiihubnu Maryam - Sura al-Ma'ida 5:72), that is, that God is Jesus. We believe that God is a Supreme Being in a threefold unity of persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and that the Son alone took human form as the man Christ Jesus.
  • Atheist to Muslim? You're actually asking me that? Here are Atheists, Scientists, and I'm sure your capable of searching for more.

    <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IspK651RpY&fe...">" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IspK651RpY&fe...
    <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FA3wcKYcTfw&fe...">" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FA3wcKYcTfw&fe...
    <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0op5MIyG3Xg">" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0op5MIyG3Xg
    <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHuiFWYRAZM&fe...">" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHuiFWYRAZM&fe...

    And I have SO much more....
    Beej, you're ignorant and you're a waste of my time.

    As for your statement about there being no Churches in Saudi Arabia. How many times until it gets it through your head that Saudi Arabia is one of the very few countries that has an almost 100% MUSLIM POPULATION.
    Seeing as how many times I have to repeat myself, you only prove me to me that you're definitely not one of the brightest Atheists around.
  • Atheist to Muslim? You're actually asking me that?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IspK651RpY&fe...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FA3wcKYcTfw&fe...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0op5MIyG3Xg
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHuiFWYRAZM&fe...

    And I have SO much more....
    Beej, you're ignorant and you're a waste of my time.

    As for your statement about there being no Churches in Saudi Arabia. How many times until it gets it through your head that Saudi Arabia is one of the very few countries that has an almost 100% MUSLIM POPULATION.
    Seeing as how many times I have to repeat myself, you only prove me to me that you're definitely not one of the brightest Atheists around.
  • Beejj
    Come come, xkon. Bad time of the month? Just tell us about all these were-atheist-now-muslim scientists and all the Christian churches there are going to be built in Saudi.
  • Beejj
    Come come, xkon. Bad time of the month? Just tell us about all these were-atheist-now-muslim scientists and all the Christian churches there are going to be built in Saudi.
  • And it's just a shame you didn't turn out to be a corny comedian too.
  • The great mistake that xkon makes when he reads the Bible is that he does not objectively seek to discover what it says, but approaches it with presumptions about what it should say.

    Christians read the Bible earnestly desiring to know what Jesus said about himself and throughout history they have universally drawn the conclusion that he taught that he was the eternal Son of God who came in human form to redeem the world.

    It is a conclusion he draws from an open assessment of the contents of the books he has read. But men like xkon have decided in advance, before they even pick up a Bible, what it should say about Jesus.

    Because he believes that Jesus was only a prophet and not the Son of God, he approaches the Bible with the presumption that it should support this belief and wherever he can he attempts to pervert or distort its teaching to yield this presumption.
  • And it's just a shame you couldn't be the corny comedian you always wanted to be.
  • And it's a shame you couldn't be the corny comedian you always wanted to be.
  • Being a Muslim, you approach the Bible with the presumption that Jesus is not the eternal Son of God and so could never have claimed to be such. You therefore cannot read the Bible with an open mind and interpret it consistently. When you are met with plain statements that show that Jesus again and again claimed to be the Son of God, you cannot simply accept them. Your presumptions oblige you to either overlook and ignore them when you cannot counter them, or misinterpret and pervert them whenever you think you can.
  • Being a Muslim, you approach the Bible with the presumption that Jesus is not the eternal Son of God and so could never have claimed to be such. You therefore cannot read the Bible with an open mind and interpret it consistently. When you are met with plain statements that show that Jesus again and again claimed to be the Son of God, you cannot simply accept them. Your presumptions oblige you to either overlook and ignore them when you cannot counter them, or misinterpret and pervert them whenever you think you can.
  • quagmire, now I'm CERTAIN you have a problem understanding the English language. Having said that, I don't want to bother even listening to you.

    "Now you have gone and thrown the Buddhists under the bus. What in the world is there to hate about the Buddhists."

    Did I say anything AGAINST Buddhism? I was referring to them as an example of something. If you can't understand English, try using a little bit of your brain.

    "Christians.... nor are they allowed to place crucifixes to the outside of the church in muslim countries."

    Are you seriously deluded? I just told you that I had been living not only in America, but Muslim countries. I SEE the crucifixes outside of the Church. You only embarrass yourself when you provide information that opposes REALITY.

    "I have not heard this term, "original Bible" before."

    Really? Well, than good for you! Now you have! And in case you don't know (which you probably don't as you already prove you don't know anything), Muslims believe that the original Torah, the original Bible, and the Quran to be the word of GOD.

    "I thought Islam, placed upon all followers, the obligation to learn the Book. "
    Of course it is an obligation, that's why most Muslims have more knowledge on things that you don't have a clue about.

    quagmire, I advise you to save your effort in giving me your deluded facts. How about you tell me something that I don't know, being useful.
  • Beejj
    Oh gosh, I am full of remorse. It's a good thing I Didn't hit you gently!
  • quagmire, now I'm CERTAIN you have a problem understanding the English language. Having said that, I don't want to bother even listening to you.

    "Now you have gone and thrown the Buddhists under the bus. What in the world is there to hate about the Buddhists."

    Did I say anything AGAINST Buddhism? I was referring to them as an example of something. If you can't understand English, try using a little bit of your brain.

    "Christians.... nor are they allowed to place crucifixes to the outside of the church in muslim countries."

    Are you seriously deluded? I just told you that I had been living not only in America, but Muslim countries. I SEE the crucifixes outside of the Church. You only embarrass yourself when you provide information that opposes REALITY.

    "I have not heard this term, "original Bible" before."

    Really? Well, than good for you! Now you have! And in case you don't know (which you probably don't as you already prove you don't know anything), Muslims believe that the original Torah, the original Bible, and the Quran to be the word of GOD.

    "I thought Islam, placed upon all followers, the obligation to learn the Book. "
    Of course it is an obligation, that's why most Muslims have more knowledge on things that you don't have a clue on.

    quagmire, I advise you to save your effort in giving me your deluded facts. How about you tell me something that I don't know, being useful.
  • quagmire, now I'm CERTAIN you have a problem understanding the English language. Having said that, I don't want to bother even listening to you.

    "Now you have gone and thrown the Buddhists under the bus. What in the world is there to hate about the Buddhists."

    Did I say anything AGAINST Buddhism? I was referring to them as an example of something. If you can't understand English, try using a little bit of your brain.

    "Christians.... nor are they allowed to place crucifixes to the outside of the church in muslim countries."

    Are you seriously deluded? I just told you that I had been living not only in America, but Muslim countries. I SEE the crucifixes outside of the Church. You only embarrass yourself when you provide information that opposes REALITY.

    "I have not heard this term, "original Bible" before."

    Really? Well, than good for you! Now you have! And in case you don't know (which you probably don't as you already prove you don't know anything), Muslims believe that the original Torah, the original Bible, and the Quran to be the word of GOD.

    "I thought Islam, placed upon all followers, the obligation to learn the Book. "
    Of course it is an obligation, that's why most Muslims have more knowledge on things that you don't have a clue on.

    quagmire, I advise you to save your effort in giving me your deluded facts. How about you tell me something that's useful and that I already don't know.
  • quagmire, now I'm CERTAIN you have a problem understanding the English language. Having said that, I don't want to bother even listening to you.

    "Now you have gone and thrown the Buddhists under the bus. What in the world is there to hate about the Buddhists."

    Did I say anything AGAINST Buddhism? I was referring to them as an example of something. If you can't understand English, try using a little bit of your brain.

    "Christians.... nor are they allowed to place crucifixes to the outside of the church in muslim countries."

    Are you seriously deluded? I just told you that I had been living not only in America, but Muslim countries. I SEE the crucifixes outside of the Church. You only embarrass yourself when you provide information that opposes REALITY.

    "I have not heard this term, "original Bible" before."
    Really? Well, than good for you! Now you have! And in case you don't know (which you probably don't as you already prove you don't know anything), Muslims believe that the original Torah, the original Bible, and the Quran to be the word of GOD.

    "I thought Islam, placed upon all followers, the obligation to learn the Book. "
    Of course it is an obligation, that's why most Muslims have more knowledge on things that you don't have a clue on.

    quagmire, I advise you to save your effort in giving me your deluded facts. How about you tell me something that's useful and that I already don't know.
  • quagmire, now I'm CERTAIN you have a problem understanding the English language. Having said that, I don't want to bother even listening to you.

    "Now you have gone and thrown the Buddhists under the bus. What in the world is there to hate about the Buddhists."

    Did I say anything AGAINST Buddhism? I was referring to them as an example of something. If you can't understand English, try using a little bit of your brain.

    "Christians.... nor are they allowed to place crucifixes to the outside of the church in muslim countries."

    Are you seriously retarded? I just told you that I had been living not only in America, but Muslim countries. I SEE the crucifixes outside of the Church. You only embarrass yourself when you provide information that opposes REALITY.

    "I have not heard this term, "original Bible" before."
    Really? Well, than good for you! Now you have! And in case you don't know (which you probably don't as you already prove you don't know anything), Muslims believe that the original Torah, the original Bible, and the Quran to be the word of GOD.

    "I thought Islam, placed upon all followers, the obligation to learn the Book. "
    Of course it is an obligation, that's why most Muslims have more knowledge on things that you don't have a clue on.

    quagmire, I advise you to save your effort in giving me your deluded facts. How about you tell me something that's useful and that I already don't know.
  • Your pathetic attempts to be humorous is a failure Beej. People with educated brains, or with even any brains at all, will know ignorance when they see it.
  • Great job, this shirk holiday is in contravention of the Shari'a. Proud of Saudi Arabia right now. The land of Deen.
  • haha, i know what you are xkon.. you're an Islamic version of what you'd call a Zionist propagandist...an Islamist propagandist. You can tell a million lies and it won't be enough to cover up the truths we see day in and day out from the terrible anti-humanity world of Islam.

    And the reason why the bible has changed...that's because religions based in humanity evolve for the better of the people following it and the world itself. That's something Islam has and always will lack. The number of Muslims means nothing when so many minds and souls are imprisoned against their world. Sure, you may have sold your soul in the name of Mohammad's excuse for what he used to be a horrible man responsible for many atrocities. But most of these growing followers of Islam are so under force and given the chance many Muslims would abandon the religion. Think about that...

    Then get back to telling us how we all know nothing. Because you know that we know too much of the truth and it annoys you.
  • quagmire, now I'm CERTAIN you have a problem understanding the English language. Having said that, I don't want to bother even listening to you.

    "Now you have gone and thrown the Buddhists under the bus. What in the world is there to hate about the Buddhists."

    Did I say anything AGAINST Buddhism? I was referring to them as an example of something. If you can't understand English, try using a little but of your brain.

    "Christians.... nor are they allowed to place crucifixes to the outside of the church in muslim countries."

    Are you seriously retarded? I just told you that I had been living not only in America, but Muslim countries. I SEE the crucifixes outside of the Church. You only embarrass yourself when you provide information that opposes REALITY.

    "I have not heard this term, "original Bible" before."
    Really? Well, than good for you! Now you have! And in case you don't know (which you probably don't as you already prove you don't know anything), Muslims believe that the original Torah, the original Bible, and the Quran to be the word of GOD.

    "I thought Islam, placed upon all followers, the obligation to learn the Book. "
    Of course it is an obligation, that's why most Muslims have more knowledge on things that you don't have a clue on.

    quagmire, I advise you to save your effort in giving me your deluded facts. How about you tell me something that's useful and that I already don't know.
  • quagmire, now I'm CERTAIN you have a problem understanding the English language. Having said that, I'm not going to waste my time explaining much to you.

    "Now you have gone and thrown the Buddhists under the bus. What in the world is there to hate about the Buddhists."

    Did I say anything AGAINST Buddhism? I was referring to them as an example of something. If you can't understand English, try using a little but of your brain.

    "Christians.... nor are they allowed to place crucifixes to the outside of the church in muslim countries."

    Are you seriously retarded? I just told you that I had been living not only in America, but Muslim countries. I SEE the crucifixes outside of the Church. You only embarrass yourself when you provide information that opposes REALITY.

    "I have not heard this term, "original Bible" before."
    Really? Well, than good for you! Now you have! And in case you don't know (which you probably don't as you already prove you don't know anything), Muslims believe that the original Torah, the original Bible, and the Quran to be the word of GOD.

    "I thought Islam, placed upon all followers, the obligation to learn the Book. "
    Of course it is an obligation, that's why most Muslims have more knowledge on things that you don't have a clue on.

    quagmire, I advise you to save your effort in giving me your deluded facts. How about you tell me something that's useful and that I already don't know.
  • Allah is the muslim God. From the arabic AL-ILAH or "The God".

    "If a Muslim says, "Your God and our God is the same," either he does not understand who Allah and Christ really are, or he intentionally glosses over the deep-rooted differences." Quoted from "Who Is Allah In Islam?, Abd-Al Masih, Villach, Austria, Light of Life, 1985, p. 36."

    Although "Allah" has become known as the proper name for the Muslim god, Allah is not a name, but a descriptor that means literally, "the god". All pagan cultures have these generic terms that refer to their "top god" as "the god". In comparison to the perfect monotheism of Judaism and Christianity, "Allah" was originally no more a proper name for the Muslim God, than the word Hebrew "elohim" (god) or Greek "theos" (god) are proper names of the one true God of the Bible.

    "Jehovah" is the only revealed proper name for the "Elohim" of the Old Testament ( Ex 3:13; 6:3) and "Jesus" is the only revealed proper name of "Theos" in the New Testament. (Acts 4:12) Islam has no proper name for their god, but merely transformed, by universal use and confusion, the generic Allah into a proper name.

    So although today, Muslims use "Allah" as a proper name, it was never used this way originally. Allah, therefore is equivalent to "elohim" and "ho theos" but not "Jehovah" or "Jesus". Allah is not the name of the nameless Muslim God. However Muslims will claim that Allah is the name of God that corresponds to Jehovah. Both the Father and the Son are called "ho theos" (The God). Jesus is called "The God" many times in the New Testament: John 20:28; Heb 1:8.

    An important conclusion from this, is that the mere fact that "Allah" is equivalent to "elohim" and "ho theos" does not mean they are directly corresponded. It certainly doesn’t prove Allah is the same as the God of the Old or New Testament. It does not prove that Muslim’s worship the same God as Christians.

    If this correspondence proved the Muslim god was the same as the Christian God, then because pagan religions also have generics that correspond to "the god" (Allah), this correspondence would also prove that Allah is the same god as the Buddhist god, for Buddhists also refer to their god as "the god".
  • I give you the same reply as I gave Beej above with your same statements.
  • Now you have gone and thrown the Buddhists under the bus. What in the world is there to hate about the Buddhists. Oh yeah, I forgot they're not Islamic. It is rather amazing how you attack other religions, so far it has been Christians, then the Hindus and now the Buddhists. I'm stating to see a pattern develop here. A certain bias emerges from your comments.

    I know for sure, there are no Christians living as minorities in muslim countries that could laugh about anything. More taqqiya on your part.

    As I said earlier, if you had been paying attention, Christians are not allowed to worship openly. Openly being the key word. I know, there is trouble with the translation. Christians are not allowed to ring the church bells, nor are they allowed to place crucifixes to the outside of the church in muslim countries. They are also prohibited from building new churches, or fixing existing churches in disrepair. Essentially killing Christian worship. Prejudice plain and simple.

    The Saudi's don't allow any churches to be built in the kingdom. Afraid they are, of muslims fleeing islam. This behavior certainly smacks of prejudice. Excuse me, but your bias is showing.

    You said, "Oh, you mean The New Testament fixed by Man to make everything sound pleasant?" sounds like an admission that man's is version is better than God's. But then again, our loving God knows best, and he has allowed us Christians to make it pleasant. Otherwise, He would have struck us down for altering His Spoken Word.

    I have not heard this term, "original Bible" before. Nothing in the Bible has been altered, only in the way it is translated. Just as your Quran, which according to you (see above), also has different translations...but it all means the same.

    You couldn't find anything negative in The New Testament to write about. You are at a loss for words for the New Testament. I thought Islam, placed upon all followers, the obligation to learn the Book.

    It is authentic because He has revealed The Bible to Christians.
  • Beejj
    Ah, I see. It's the TRANSLATIONS which are at fault. Hit any women gently, lately?
  • Beejj
    Xkon, so there are NO Christians residing in Saudi Arabia??? No expat Brits or Americans or New Zealanders or French or .......? Of course there are, BUT THEY HAVE NO CHURCH TO ATTEND. You are the most shit-filled mammal it is possible to meet.

    So God got out his pen and paper, or whatever, and wrote the Torah? You honestly believe this???? Good gracious, you are so amazingly primitive, but it's not your fault, dear boy: blame your ignorant, simple parents for force-feeding you this bilge.

    In your penultimate paragraph you use the phrase "PROVES that it is authentic." PROVES??????? Have you taken leave of your senses?

    Um ...... explain to me what your final question is supposed to mean, please. Why should an atheist (or Christian or Jew or Muslim or ANYONE with a brain) not believe in Evolution? And what's all this about "the only logical reason"? Logical? Where's the logic?
  • "You precede this by referring to "one version", yet a few moments ago I read your words to Kal saying that you don't know which version of the Bible to believe!!!!!"

    Beej, different VERSIONS of the BIBLE, NOT of the QURAN. The version of the Quran in ARABIC still REMAINS the SAME (WORD for WORD). It is the TRANSLATIONS that are NEXT to the ARABIC TEXT (within the same book) that DIFFER and NOT the ORIGINAL TEXT in ARABIC.
  • "You precede this by referring to "one version", yet a few moments ago I read your words to Kal saying that you don't know which version of the Bible to believe!!!!!"

    Beej, different VERSIONS of the BIBLE, NOT of the QURAN. The version of the Quran in ARABIC still REMAINS the SAME (WORD for WORD). It is the TRANSLATIONS that are NEXT to the ARABIC TEXT (within the same book) that DIFFER and NOT the ORIGINAL ARABIC TEXT.
  • "..that Christians and Jews are free to worship and to build churches and synagogues, respectively, in Saudi Arabia?"
    That's if there WERE any Christians or Jews who were Saudi Arabian.

    "When you refer to the New Testament as being "fixed up by Man", do you mean written by Man? Nothing wrong with that, as far as I can see. Um ... who wrote the Old Testament and the Koran? Aliens?"

    Did I SAY it was WRITTEN by Man? You obviously don't have much knowledge on Islam do you? Do you know what a Muslim has to believe in, in ORDER to BE a Muslim?

    Being a Muslim means you believe in one GOD, in all the Angels, in all the Prophets (from Adam to Mohammad), in all the Books (the Torah, the Bible, the Quran), in the Day of Judgment, and destiny.

    So of course I do NOT think that the Bible OR the Torah was written by MAN. It was written by GOD. Muslims believe that by time, the Torah sent with Moses (peace be upon him) has been altered by people, which is the reason Jesus (peace be upon him) was sent down with the Bible. When the Bible changed, the Quran was then sent down with Mohammad (peace be upon him). And the evidence of the Quran being the SAME ONE version throughout the WORLD proves that it is authentic. Muslims respect the followers of Moses and Jesus simply because they are Messengers like Mohammad.

    "Does this mean you believe the story of the Creation"
    Man has always been questioning how humans, more like the Earth, came about to begin with. The only logical explanation is that a Supreme Being had this capability. How can an Atheist such as yourself settle with the idea of evolution?
  • Beejj
    Xkon, you are priceless. "Hit them in a gentle manner." You precede this by referring to "one version", yet a few moments ago I read your words to Kal saying that you don't know which version of the Bible to believe!!!!!

    Referring to the "Top 10 Quran Quotes ......" you resort, as is the risible style of your ilk, to claiming that thr translations are incorrect. Now, how did I know you were going to take that line of "defence"?

    I wonder if you have read any of the books written by Jean Sasson. (Of course you have, and their are a tissue of lies concocted by someone who wants to bring Islam into disrepute!)

    I'm still vomiting over the idea that Islam demands that women must be "obedient" to men. Can't you see the evil of this?
  • How did I know you were going to bring that verse up? Because that's the one verse ALL NON-Muslims try to make their point when they in fact don't even bother to read the verse properly. Differentiate between the word "wife" and "WOMAN".

    Quran [4:34]---Men are the protectors and maintainers of women because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part you fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them, then if they persist, forsake their beds, and if they still persist, hit them in gentle manner (no means of physical harm). But if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance); for Allah is Most High, Great (above you all).

    It says MEN are protectors of WOMEN. In Islam, it is a man's obligation to take care of women. Meaning the man's wife, sister, daughter, etc. No where does the verse say "wife". So to begin with, the verse is in regards to ALL women. Second, it is not just for any reason that a man is allowed to hit a woman, unless she committed an indecent act. What kind of MAN leaves his wife, daughter, sister to commit ill-conduct? Do you think any father wouldn't take serious actions if he found his daughter doing inappropriate things and NOT do anything about it? And do you not see the chronological order of steps to be taken for the man to "hit" the woman? It's not even that a man "assumes" that this woman is doing something wrong, and then hits her on the spot. In the teachings of Islam, it is prohibited to strike anyone's face, or so much as to leave a mark on one's body. You only assume from that verse "violence" simply because of what you define as "hit" in your terms of understanding.

    So to sum this up, NO man is allowed to physically abuse/harm women in anyway. Only if a woman commits and persists in ill-conduct, can a man take permission to handle this situation by gentle discipline. If a man is not allowed to leave a mark on a woman's body, than the word "hit" does not define the meaning. The problem when translating Arabic into English, the words differ in meaning. So if an English there is not a single word to describe "light hit", then the translation refers to the exact word "hit", and then in parenthesis explain the meaning. That's the problem when you translate a language into another. The translation never turns out into it's original meaning. But of course anyone who tries to portray Muslims negatively will only show you specific verses that needs previous verses to explain its meaning.
    And if someone tries to find something against this explanation, why do they not bring up the other verses in the Quran where it says that a Husband must be kind to his Wife? Or what about this Hadith? :

    ...How does anyone of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel and then he may embrace her?... (Sahih Al-Bukhari,op.cit., vol.8.hadith 68,pp.42-43).

    As for the site, "Top 10 Quran Quotes Every Woman Must See." That is by FAR the most sickest attempt for someone to portray Muslim women in Islam. There's a verse that doesn't even exist in the Quran, there are verses that are not even translated right, and on top of it all, the person that "interpreted" doesn't have a CLUE what the verses mean. I would clarify EACH and every verse on that site for you, but I doubt you or anyone on this site for that matter would bother to educate yourselves, instead of just absorbing the garage of lies being told for you to believe.
  • How did I know you were going to bring that verse up? Because that's the one verse ALL NON-Muslims try to make their point when they in fact don't even bother to read the verse properly. Differentiate between the word "wife" and "WOMAN".

    Quran [4:34]---Men are the protectors and maintainers of women because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part you fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them, then if they persist, forsake their beds, and if they still persist, hit them in gentle manner (no means of physical harm). But if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance); for Allah is Most High, Great (above you all).

    It says MEN are protectors of WOMEN. In Islam, it is a man's obligation to take care of women. Meaning the man's wife, sister, daughter, etc. No where does the verse say "wife". So to begin with, the verse is in regards to ALL women. Second, it is not just for any reason that a man is allowed to hit a woman, unless she committed an indecent act. What kind of MAN leaves his wife, daughter, sister to commit ill-conduct? Do you think any father wouldn't take serious actions if he found his daughter doing inappropriate things and NOT do anything about it? And do you not see the chronological order of steps to be taken for the man to "hit" the woman? It's not even like that a man "assumes" that this woman is doing something wrong and then hits her on the spot. Third, in the teachings of Islam, it is prohibited to strike anyone's face, or so much as to leave a mark on the body. You only assume from that verse "violence" simply because of what you define as "hit" in your terms of understanding.

    So to sum this up, NO man is allowed to physically abuse/harm women in anyway. Only if a woman commits and persists in ill-conduct, can a man take permission to handle this situation by gentle discipline. If a man is not allowed to leave a mark on a woman's body, than the word "hit" does not define the meaning. The problem when translating Arabic into English, the words differ in meaning. So if an English there is not a single word to describe "light hit", then the translation refers to the exact word "hit", and then in parenthesis explain the meaning. That's the problem when you translate a language into another. The translation never turns out into it's original meaning. But of course anyone who tries to portray Muslims negatively will only show you specific verses that needs previous verses to explain its meaning.
    And if someone tries to find something against this explanation, why do they not bring up the other verses in the Quran where it says that a Husband must be kind to his Wife? Or what about this Hadith? :

    ...How does anyone of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel and then he may embrace her?... (Sahih Al-Bukhari,op.cit., vol.8.hadith 68,pp.42-43).

    As for the site, "Top 10 Quran Quotes Every Woman Must See." That is by FAR the most sickest attempt for someone to portray Muslim women in Islam. There's a verse that doesn't even exist in the Quran, there are verses that are not even translated right, and on top of it all, the person that "interpreted" doesn't have a CLUE what the verses mean. I would clarify EACH and every verse on that site for you, but I doubt you or anyone on this site for that matter would bother to educate yourselves, instead of just absorbing the garage of lies being told for you to believe.
  • Beejj
    Are you saying, xkon, that Christians and Jews are free to worship and to build churches and synagogues, respectively, in Saudi Arabia? Yes or no?

    When you refer to the New Testament as being "fixed up by Man", do you mean written by Man? Nothing wrong with that, as far as I can see. Um ... who wrote the Old Testament and the Koran? Aliens?

    Finally, you say that every religion must make sense. Does this mean you believe the story of the Creation, to take just one example, as described in the Old Testament (from which your Mohammed stole so much of his stuff) to make sense?
  • How did I know you were going to bring that verse up? Because that's the one verse ALL NON-Muslims "try" to make their point when they in fact don't even bother to read the verse properly. I'm quite sure you are very capable of differentiating between the word "wife" and "WOMAN".

    Quran [4:34]---Men are the protectors and maintainers of women because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part you fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them, then if they persist, forsake their beds, and if they still persist, hit them in gentle manner (no means of physical harm). But if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance); for Allah is Most High, Great (above you all).

    It says MEN are protectors of WOMEN. In Islam, it is a man's obligation to take care of women. Meaning the man's wife, sister, daughter, etc. No where does the verse say "wife". So to begin with, the verse is in regards to ALL women. Second, it is not just for any reason that a man is allowed to hit a woman, unless she committed an indecent act. What kind of MAN leaves his wife, daughter, sister to commit ill-conduct? Do you think any father wouldn't take serious actions if he found his daughter doing inappropriate things and NOT do anything about it? And do you not see the chronological order of steps to be taken for the man to "hit" the woman? It's not even like that a man "assumes" that this woman is doing something wrong and then hits her on the spot. Third, in the teachings of Islam, it is prohibited to strike anyone's face, or so much as to leave a mark on the body. You only assume from that verse "violence" simply because of what you define as "hit" in your terms of understanding.

    So to sum this up, NO man is allowed to physically abuse/harm women in anyway. Only if a woman commits and persists in ill-conduct, can a man take permission to handle this situation by gentle discipline. If a man is not allowed to leave a mark on a woman's body, than the word "hit" does not define the meaning. The problem when translating Arabic into English, the words differ in meaning. So if an English there is not a single word to describe "light hit", then the translation refers to the exact word "hit", and then in parenthesis explain the meaning. That's the problem when you translate a language into another. The translation never turns out into it's original meaning. But of course anyone who tries to portray Muslims negatively will only show you specific verses that needs previous verses to explain its meaning.
    And if someone tries to find something against this explanation, why do they not bring up the other verses in the Quran where it says that a Husband must be kind to his Wife? Or what about this Hadith? :

    ...How does anyone of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel and then he may embrace her?... (Sahih Al-Bukhari,op.cit., vol.8.hadith 68,pp.42-43).

    As for the site, "Top 10 Quran Quotes Every Woman Must See." That is by FAR the most sickest attempt for someone to portray Muslim women in Islam. There's a verse that doesn't even exist in the Quran, there are verses that are not even translated right, and on top of it all, the person that "interpreted" doesn't have a CLUE what the verses mean. I would clarify EACH and every verse on that site for you, but I doubt you or anyone on this site for that matter would bother to educate yourselves, instead of just absorbing the garage of lies being told for you to believe.
  • Kal_El
    That's funny, because there is not one single Christian Church in the whole of Saudi Arabia. The mere possession of a Bible, Crucifix, or even a Cross is a crime that can get you jailed, if you are unlucky. I know because I have coworkers who spent time in Saudi, and had their Bibles confiscated by the religious police there. And let us talk about Iran, where the local religious police are arresting converts from islam, and Christians have to worship hidden in their homes. Saudi being the birth place of islam is the measuring stick for the sunni sect, while Iran would be the same for the shia, since it is by far the largest shia populated nation. Are you telling us that the Saudi's are not following islam? And the Iranians too? Why not lecture them instead of bothering us with your nonsensical rhetoric?

    You describe the New Testament as being fixed up by man to make everything sound pleasant. Funny, I could swear you, and muslim apologists like you, do the EXACT SAME thing for the quran. There are so many ayas that contradict each other in the quran, its no wonder there are so many sects and so much infighting among muslims.
  • "Christians have been barred from using Allah to describe the Christian God, in any Islamic country. Just as they can not openly worship Christianity in Islamic countries. Muslims have acknowledged that they are two separate entities. But you would have known this, if you had travelled abroad."

    Christians barred from using Allah in Muslim countries? Do you know if Christians in a Muslim country were reading this right now, they would laugh hysterically? And not can they only say 'Allah', but they also have the freedom to worship Christianity. You are obviously unaware of the churches that are present in Muslim countries. So, I have no idea where you get your resources from. And you claim I would have known this if I had traveled abroad? Well, I hate to break it to you, but I have been living and traveling in countries in more than just America. So that's how I KNOW. Whereas you obviously don't as you just assume because you're that naive.

    "Show me where in the Bible, the New Testament, contains any hateful passages relating to any other religion. Quite simply, you can't."

    Oh, you mean The New Testament fixed up by Man to make everything sound pleasant? The original Bible has been altered. In fact, there are so many versions of the Bible it's like each Christian follows according to what they want. It's like saying the teachings of Buddha are peaceful therefore that's the true religion. Religion also needs to make common sense. I don't even know where to start with the Bible because EVERY version is different from the last, contradicting each word than the one before it. How does that make it "authentic" and the word of God?
  • "Christians have been barred from using Allah to describe the Christian God, in any Islamic country. Just as they can not openly worship Christianity in Islamic countries. Muslims have acknowledged that they are two separate entities. But you would have known this, if you had travelled abroad."

    Christians barred from using Allah in Muslim countries? Do you know if Christians in a Muslim country were reading this right now, they would laugh hysterically? And not can they only say 'Allah', but they also have the freedom to worship Christianity. You are obviously unaware of the churches that are present in Muslim countries. So, I have no idea where you get your resources from. And you claim I would have known this if I had traveled abroad? Well, I hate to break it to you, but I have been living and traveling in countries in more than just America. So that's how I KNOW. Whereas you obviously don't as you just assume because you're that naive.

    "Show me where in the Bible, the New Testament, contains any hateful passages relating to any other religion. Quite simply, you can't."

    Oh, you mean The New Testament fixed up by Man to make everything sound pleasant? The original Bible has been altered. In fact, there are so many versions of the Bible it's like each Christian follows according to what they want. It's like saying the teachings of Buddha are peaceful therefore that's the true religion. Religion also needs to make common sense. I don't even know where to start with the Bible because every version is different from the last. How does that make it "authentic" and the word of God?
  • "Christians have been barred from using Allah to describe the Christian God, in any Islamic country. Just as they can not openly worship Christianity in Islamic countries. Muslims have acknowledged that they are two separate entities. But you would have known this, if you had travelled abroad."

    Christians barred from using Allah in Muslim countries? Do you know if Christians in a Muslim country were reading this right now, they would laugh hysterically? And not can they only say 'Allah', but they also have the freedom to worship Christianity. You are obviously unaware of the churches that are present in Muslim countries. So, I have no idea where you get your resources from. And you claim I would have known this if I had traveled abroad? Well, I hate to break it to you, but I have been living and traveling in countries in more than just America. So that's how I KNOW. Whereas you obviously don't as you just assume because you're that naive.

    "Show me where in the Bible, the New Testament, contains any hateful passages relating to any other religion. Quite simply, you can't."

    Oh, you mean The New Testament fixed by Man to make everything sound pleasant? The original Bible has been altered. In fact, there are so many versions of the Bible it's like each Christian follows according to what they want. It's like saying the teachings of Buddha are peaceful therefore that's the true religion. Religion also needs to make common sense. I don't even know where to start with the Bible because every version is different from the last. How does that make it "authentic" and the word of God?
  • "Christians have been barred from using Allah to describe the Christian God, in any Islamic country. Just as they can not openly worship Christianity in Islamic countries. Muslims have acknowledged that they are two separate entities. But you would have known this, if you had travelled abroad."

    Christians barred from using Allah in Muslim countries? Do you know if Christians in a Muslim country were reading this right now, they would laugh hysterically? And not can they only say 'Allah', but they also have the freedom to worship Christianity. You are obviously unaware of the churches that are present in Muslim countries. So, I have no idea where you get your resources from. And you claim I would have known this if I had traveled abroad? Well, I hate to break it to you, but I have been living and traveling in countries in more than just America. So that's how I KNOW. Whereas you obviously don't as you just assume because you're that naive.

    "Show me where in the Bible, the New Testament, contains any hateful passages relating to any other religion. Quite simply, you can't."

    Oh, you mean The New Testament written by Man to make everything sound pleasant? The original Bible has been altered. In fact, there are so many versions of the Bible it's like each Christian follows according to what they want. It's like the teachings of Buddha are peaceful therefore that's the true religion. Religion also needs to make common sense. I don't even know where to start with the Bible because every version is different from the last. How does that make it "authentic" and the word of God?
  • Beejj
    True to my word, xkon, I sought and found a reference to the acceptability of wife-beating in the Koran. Look up 4:34. Comments? While we are about it, look up, on this site, "Top 10 Quran Quotes Every Woman Must See." Frightening stuff - at least to those of us not raised under the venomous, suffocating clouds of your religion.
  • USpace
    .
    St. Valentine's Day came from a priest named Valentine who was imprisoned in 270 AD for marrying women with Roman soldiers, thereby supposedly 'weakening' them, so the Government was against the soldiers getting married. He fell in love with his jailer's daughter and signed his last letter to her "From Your Valentine".

    In Muslim countries it's good to see that love and the market are stronger than unreasonableness. Since many Islamic clerics condemn it as a non-Muslim Holiday, and say that Muslims may not celebrate a Christian (or Pagan) holiday; and since their 'Religious Police' enforce this, it's pretty safe to say that Sharia Law is against this. Not all Muslims of course, just the Law governing them in Saudi Arabia and other countries.

    India's radical Hindus are rabidly against V-Day too. There will be goon squads out looking for cuddly couples, who if caught will be taken to a government office and forcibly married.

    How very enlightened and civilized.
    .
    here’s an absurd thought -
    your Supreme God says
    outlaw Valentine's Day

    confiscate ALL red roses
    keep men and women apart

    .
    absurd thought -
    God of the Universe says
    Valentine's Day is evil

    it just reminds the people
    about Christianity

    .
    absurd thought -
    God of the Universe says
    destroy ALL Valentine's cards

    remove items colored red
    from all the store's shelves

    .
    absurd thought -
    God of the Universe fears
    a Christian minority

    even though they may not build
    or repair their churches
    .
    http://www.lulu.com/content/2457373
    .
    All real freedom starts with freedom of speech. Without freedom of speech there can be no real freedom.
    .
  • Beejj
    Xkon, I do not respond because of your failure to answer the questions I ask. It's as simple as that. OK, you set me a challenge: I have to find something in the Koran that refers to the acceptability of wife-beating, so I will endeavour to do so. Why do you persist in throwing up Old Testament versus as some kind of defence? I care not a fig for that which is written in the Bible. And allow me to repeat: Christians follow the teachings of the NEW Testament, not the Old. While I am not a Christian, I doubt if you will find encouragements to mutilate or beat women in the New Testament. Again, you make me smile when you describe me as illiterate. Buy a dictionary to find out what the word means. Finally, just to make things abundantly clear, you are saying that there is no encouragement to beat one's wife in the Koran, yes?
  • Christians have been barred from using Allah to describe the Christian God, in any Islamic country. Just as they can not openly worship Christianity in Islamic countries. Muslims have acknowledged that they are two separate entities. But you would have known this, if you had travelled abroad.

    Islam is very possessive.

    I have not humiliated myself, quite the contrary. You are trying to transfer your humilition, more perceived than anything else, to me.

    I have proved time and time again that Islam is anti Christian, anti Jewish and anti anything that isn't Islamic. There are more hateful and biased passages contained in the Quran, than in any other book I have ever read.

    Show me where in the Bible, the New Testament, contains any hateful passages relating to any other religion. Quite simply, you can't.

    You can't beat me.
  • After talking to you, I realized nothing that ever comes out from you even makes sense. You just proved to me that you actually know NOTHING. And that proves it as even a fact like the word 'GOD' and 'Allah' being the same, you were unaware of. So of course it brings me no surprise that you don't have a CLUE what Islam probably even is.

    "So please, do not lecture me..."
    Lecture you? All I did was take EACH of the verses that YOU posted and INTERPRET them.

    "....for I have already made my conclusions."
    Yeah, that's what DEFINES ignorance.

    "You, my friend, are also guilty of picking verses out of context. "
    Oh, argue with a Muslim that actually understands Arabic. Do you know how illogical your statements sound right about now?
  • After talking to you, I realized nothing that ever comes out from you even makes sense. You just proved to me that you actually know NOTHING. And that proves it as even a fact like the word 'GOD' and 'Allah' being the same, you were unaware of. So of course it brings me no surprise that you don't have a CLUE what Islam probably even is.

    "So please, do not lecture me..."
    Lecture you? All I did was take EACH of the verses that YOU posted and INTERPRET them.

    "....for I have already made my conclusions."
    Yeah, that's what DEFINES ignorance.

    "You, my friend, are also guilty of picking verses out of context. "
    Oh, argue with a Muslim that actually understands Arabic. Do you know how illogical you sound right about now?
  • Quagmire, I suggest you do not imply your knowledge based on a Muslim's OWN religion. In Arabic, Allah means GOD. If you travel to Muslim countries, you will even find Christians using the word 'Allah'. I suggest you do research before stating your opinions and turning them into your so-called "facts". Whether 'Allah' or 'GOD' is used in translations, it's the SAME thing. See how someone can humiliate themselves by not being educated?
  • I do own and have read the Quran, Hadith of Bakhari, and The Reliance of the Traveller. All accepted texts of Islamic jurisprudence.

    So please, do not lecture me, for I have already made my conclusions.

    You, my friend, are also guilty of picking verses out of context.
  • Quagmire, I suggest you do not imply your knowledge based on a Muslim's OWN religion. In Arabic, Allah means GOD. If you travel to Muslim countries, you will find Christians even using the word 'Allah'. I suggest you do research before stating your opinions and turning them into your so-called "facts". Whether 'Allah' or 'GOD' is used in translations, it's the SAME thing. See how someone can humiliate themselves by not being educated?
  • Quagmire, I suggest you do not imply your knowledge based on a Muslim's OWN religion. In Arabic, Allah means GOD. If you travel to Muslim countries, you will find Christians even using the word 'Allah'. I suggest you do research before stating your opinions and turning them into your so-called "facts". Whether 'Allah' or 'GOD' is used in the translations, it's the SAME thing. So in fact, it is YOU that needs to be educated on that.
  • Continuing.........
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Quran [9:12] : And if they break their oaths after their agreement and (openly) revile your religion, then fight the leaders of unbelief--surely their oaths are nothing--so that they may desist.

    [What's disputing with that verse? God says for those who break their promises should not be left as they prove that they cannot be trusted. Tell me ONE thing that's wrong about that?]
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Quran [9:14] : Fight them; Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace, and assist you against them and heal the hearts of a believing people.

    [This verse is in regards to WAR. You would see that if you had verses before and after that. And now that you know that it is in regards to WAR, what's wrong with the verse?]
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    9:29 states: Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

    [Ok, answer this. Why does AMERICA force it's citizens to PAY taxes? And what happens when someone refuses to pay their taxes? They go to PRISON. So why does that seem to be acceptable to everyone when it comes to these laws? The same applies in the teachings of Islam. People who do not pay charity (regarding Muslims only), and people who do not pay their taxes and live on Muslim land (regarding non-Muslims) are required to be punished. And this rule applies until today WORLDWIDE]
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    9:30 states: And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away.

    [Again, what's so disputing about this verse? God is saying what every Jew and Christian claims. God says their claims are false. Do you really think that ANY religion supports anything but its OWN teachings? Of course God wants people to be guided to the straight path. So God will punish those led astray in the life Hereafter. Live ANY other religion believes through its own ideologies]
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    9:73 states: O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination.

    [Do you think people who are hypocrites should be respected? Of course not. Those who do harm to Muslims (or to anyone) will be disliked. So the Prophet will be severe with their wrongdoings. How is that not clear?]
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    9:123 states: O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

    [Again, this verse relates to WAR. If you read verses before and after that, it would clearly be obvious. So in other words, this verse says that when you find your OPPONENTS (i.e. those fighting against you) to fight them, as of course that's what war IS about; to Fight AGAINST your opponents.]
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    See how when you understand what each verse means that your ideas to begin with differs from the ones after, once understood? Of course anyone who is against Islam will pick out random verses that will mislead non-Muslims to its meaning as they do not understand the purpose of the verse, or better yet, are not provided with its surrounding other verses to clarify its message.
    If you have anything else you'd like to share, it'd by my pleasure to interpret it or prove you otherwise.
    And if you don't take this debate seriously (like so many others have), I will just simply find evidence to refute your claims. I don't tend to attack people's arguments until they can prove me otherwise.
  • Quagmire, is there difficulty in understanding the English language? If you compare the verse [3:20] to the one that I posted from the one that you posted, you will see that they are practically the SAME. The Arabic text of the Quran NEVER changes, but the translations (be it in any language) will differ in some words. It's called SYNONYMS. Different words that are SIMILAR in meaning.

    As for your attempts to bring forth every non-Muslim's "chosen" verses in the Quran, I will be more than happy to interpret it for you. Seeing as you have no knowledge on the Quran whatsoever, I will have to explain to you.
    The Quran as you know, differs from the Bible. The Bible is written in chronological order in a story-like form. Whereas the Quran had verses sent down during different times. Some single verses in the Quran will not be understood if that verse were to be taken separately. The verses before and after must be taken into consideration in order to create the bigger picture. For example, it's like saying these 3 different sentences:
    "The president is evil." "I hate the President." "The President is a murderer."
    Now, if you were to take each sentence separately, the sentence represents it's own ideas. But let's say we combined the three sentences together:
    "I hate the evil President because he is a murderer."
    Now that as one whole sentence gives you the bigger picture, and gives you a logical explanation to the negative separate sentences.
    The same concept goes with the Quran. Of course any Muslim hater will only gain supporters by showing specifically selected verses of the Quran without showing you the verses before and after.

    Starting with the first verse you posted [9:5]. Did you take a look at the verses before and after?
    Quran [9:4]---Except those unbelievers with whom you made treaties and who did not violate these in the least, nor give help to anyone against you, so fulfill your treaties with such people according to the terms of the treaty, surely GOD loves the pious.

    Quran [9:6]---And if any unbelievers seeks from you protection, grant him protection so that he will hear the Words of GOD, then take him to place of his safety, this is because they are people who do not know.

    [So, not only is God saying for Muslims to keep their promises to NON-Muslims, but also to PROTECT NON-Muslims.] So, when you look at the verse [9:5] in between them, you'll have the bigger picture. That verse was in regards of WAR. And I'm pretty sure you know that during War, people kill their opponents, as that's what War IS. See how the image has changed once provided the verse before and after? Not to mention, the reasons and explanation of that verse become verified.]
  • Continuing.........
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Quran [9:12] : And if they break their oaths after their agreement and (openly) revile your religion, then fight the leaders of unbelief--surely their oaths are nothing--so that they may desist.

    [What's disputing with that verse? God says for those who break their promises should not be left as they prove that they cannot be trusted. Tell me ONE thing that's wrong about that?]
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Quran [9:14] : Fight them; Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace, and assist you against them and heal the hearts of a believing people.

    [This verse is in regards to WAR. You would see that if you had verses before and after that. And now that you know that it is in regards to WAR, what's wrong with the verse?]
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    9:29 states: Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

    [Ok, answer this. Why does AMERICA force it's citizens to PAY taxes? And what happens when someone refuses to pay their taxes? They go to PRISON. So why does that seem to be acceptable to everyone when it comes to these laws? The same applies in the teachings of Islam. People who do not pay charity (regarding Muslims only), and people who do not pay their taxes and live on Muslim land (regarding non-Muslims) are required to be punished. And this rule applies until today WORLDWIDE]
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    9:30 states: And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away.

    [Again, what's so disputing about this verse? God is saying what every Jew and Christian claims. God says their claims are false. Do you really think that ANY religion supports anything but its OWN teachings? Of course God wants people to be guided to the straight path. So God will punish those led astray in the life Hereafter. Live ANY other religion believes through its own ideologies]
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    9:73 states: O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination.

    [Do you think people who are hypocrites should be respected? Of course not. Those who do harm to Muslims (or to anyone) will be disliked. So the Prophet will be severe with their wrongdoings. How is that not clear?]
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    9:123 states: O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

    [Again, this verse relates to WAR. If you read verses before and after that, it would clearly be obvious. So in other words, this verse says that when you find your OPPONENTS (i.e. those fighting against you) to fight them, as of course that's what war IS about; to Fight AGAINST your opponents.]
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    See how when you understand what each verse means that your ideas to begin with differs from the ones after, once understood? Of course anyone who is against Islam will pick out random verses that will mislead non-Muslims to its meaning as they do not understand the purpose of the verse, or better yet, are not provided with its surrounding other verses to clarify its message.
    If you have anything else you'd like to share, it'd by my pleasure to interpret it or prove you otherwise.
    And if you don't take this debate seriously (like so many others have), I will just simply find evidence to refute your claims. I don't tend to attack people's arguments until they can prove me otherwise.
  • Continuing.........
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Quran [9:12] : And if they break their oaths after their agreement and (openly) revile your religion, then fight the leaders of unbelief--surely their oaths are nothing--so that they may desist.

    [What's disputing with that verse? God says for those who break their promises should not be left as they prove that they cannot be trusted. Tell me ONE thing that's wrong about that?]
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Quran [9:14] : Fight them; Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace, and assist you against them and heal the hearts of a believing people.

    [This verse is in regards to WAR. You would see that if you had verses before and after that. And now that you know that it is in regards to WAR, what's wrong with the verse?]
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    9:29 states: Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

    [Ok, answer this. Why does AMERICA force it's citizens to PAY taxes? And what happens when someone refuses to pay their taxes? They go to PRISON. So why does that seem to be acceptable to everyone when it comes to these laws? The same applies in the teachings of Islam. People who do not pay charity (regarding Muslims only), and people who do not pay their taxes and live on Muslim land (regarding non-Muslims) are required to be punished. And this rule applies until today WORLDWIDE]
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    9:30 states: And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away.

    [Again, what's so disputing about this verse? God is saying what every Jew and Christian claims. God says their claims are false. Do you really think that ANY religion supports anything but its OWN teachings? Of course God wants people to be guided to the straight path. So God will punish those led astray in the life Hereafter. Live ANY other religion believes through its own ideologies]
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    9:73 states: O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination.

    [Do you think people who are hypocrites should be respected? Of course not. Those who do harm to Muslims (or to anyone) will be disliked. So the Prophet will be severe with their wrongdoings. How is that not clear?]
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    9:123 states: O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

    [Again, this verse relates to WAR. If you read verses before and after that, it would clearly be obvious. So in other words, this verse says that when you find your OPPONENTS (i.e. those fighting against you) to fight them, as of course that's what war IS about; to Fight AGAINST your opponents.]
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    See how when you understand what each verse means that your ideas to begin with differs from the ones after, once understood? Of course anyone who is against Islam will pick out random verses that will mislead non-Muslims to its meaning as they do not understand the purpose of the verse, or better yet, are not provided with its surrounding other verses to clarify its message.
    If you have anything else you'd like to share, it'd by my pleasure to interpret it or prove you otherwise.
    And if you don't take this debate seriously (like so many others have), I will just simply find evidence to refute your claims. I don't tend to attack people's arguments until they can prove me otherwise.
  • Quagmire, is there difficulty in understanding the English language? If you compare the verse [3:20] to the one that I posted from the one that you posted, you will see that they are practically the SAME. The Arabic text of the Quran NEVER changes, but the translations (regardless of the language) will differ in some words. It's called SYNONYMS. Different words that are SIMILAR in meaning. There are different people who translate the Quran in the same language. So now that I have said that, the other verses that I posted that you claimed to be mistranslated, is the same you probably have but with different SYNONYMS (like the one I just mentioned). And another thing you should know. Muslims who actually have the Quran right in front of them will obviously know better than non-Muslims who copy/paste off a random website.

    As for your attempts to bring forth every non-Muslim's "chosen" verses in the Quran, I will be more than happy to interpret it for you. Seeing as your knowledge on the Quran is very limited, I will have to explain it to you.
    The Quran as you know, differs from the Bible. The Bible is written in chronological order in a story-like form. Whereas the Quran had verses sent down during different times. Some single verses in the Quran will not be understood if that verse were to be taken separately. The verses before and after must be taken into consideration in order to create the bigger picture. For example, it's like saying these 3 different sentences:
    "The president is evil." "I hate the President." "The President is a murderer."
    Now, if you were to take each sentence separately, the sentence represents it's own ideas. But let's say we combined the three sentences together:
    "I hate the evil President because he is a murderer."
    Now that as one whole sentence gives you the bigger picture, and gives you a logical explanation to the negative separate sentences.
    The same concept goes with the Quran. Of course any Muslim hater will only gain supporters by showing specifically selected verses of the Quran without showing you the verses before and after.

    Starting with the first verse you posted [9:5]. Did you take a look at the verses before and after?
    Quran [9:4]---Except those unbelievers with whom you made treaties and who did not violate these in the least, nor give help to anyone against you, so fulfill your treaties with such people according to the terms of the treaty, surely GOD loves the pious.

    Quran [9:6]---And if any unbelievers seeks from you protection, grant him protection so that he will hear the Words of GOD, then take him to place of his safety, this is because they are people who do not know.

    [So, not only is God saying for Muslims to keep their promises to NON-Muslims, but also to PROTECT NON-Muslims.] So, when you look at the verse [9:5] in between them, you'll have the bigger picture. That verse was in regards of WAR. And I'm pretty sure you know that during War, people kill their opponents, as that's what War IS. Notice how the image has changed once provided the verse before and after? Not to mention, the reasons and explanation of that verse become verified.]
  • Quagmire, is there difficulty in understanding the English language? If you compare the verse [3:20] to the one that I posted from the one that you posted, you will see that they are practically the SAME. The Arabic text of the Quran NEVER changes, but the translations (regardless of the language) will differ in some words. It's called SYNONYMS. Different words that are SIMILAR in meaning. There are different people who translate the Quran in the same language. So now that I have said that, the other verses that I posted that you claimed to be mistranslated, is the same you probably have but with different SYNONYMS (like the one I just mentioned). And another thing you should know. Muslims who actually have the Quran right in front of them will obviously know better than non-Muslims who copy/paste off a random website.

    As for your attempts to bring forth every non-Muslim's "chosen" verses in the Quran, I will be more than happy to interpret it for you. Seeing as your knowledge on the Quran is very limited, I will have to explain it to you.
    The Quran as you know, differs from the Bible. The Bible is written in chronological order in a story-like form. Whereas the Quran had verses sent down during different times. Some single verses in the Quran will not be understood if that verse were to be taken separately. The verses before and after must be taken into consideration in order to create the bigger picture. For example, it's like saying these 3 different sentences:
    "The president is evil." "I hate the President." "The President is a murderer."
    Now, if you were to take each sentence separately, the sentence represents it's own ideas. But let's say we combined the three sentences together:
    "I hate the evil President because he is a murderer."
    Now that as one whole sentence gives you the bigger picture, and gives you a logical explanation to the negative separate sentences.
    The same concept goes with the Quran. Of course any Muslim hater will only gain supporters by showing specifically selected verses of the Quran without showing you the verses before and after.

    Starting with the first verse you posted [9:5]. Did you take a look at the verses before and after?
    Quran [9:4]---Except those unbelievers with whom you made treaties and who did not violate these in the least, nor give help to anyone against you, so fulfill your treaties with such people according to the terms of the treaty, surely GOD loves the pious.

    Quran [9:6]---And if any unbelievers seeks from you protection, grant him protection so that he will hear the Words of GOD, then take him to place of his safety, this is because they are people who do not know.

    [So, not only is God saying for Muslims to keep their promises to NON-Muslims, but also to PROTECT NON-Muslims.] So, when you look at the verse [9:5] in between them, you'll have the bigger picture. That verse was in regards of WAR. And I'm pretty sure you know that during War, people kill their opponents, as that's what War IS. Notice how the image has changed once provided the verse before and after? Not to mention, the reasons and explanation of that verse become verified.]
  • Quagmire, is there difficulty in understanding the English language? If you compare the verse [3:20] to the one that I posted from the one that you posted, you will see that they are practically the SAME. The Arabic text of the Quran NEVER changes, but the translations (be it in any language) will differ in some words. It's called SYNONYMS. Different words that are SIMILAR in meaning. So now that I have said that, the other verses that I posted that you claimed to be mistranslated, is the same you probably have but with different SYNONYMS (like the one I just mentioned). And another thing you should know. Muslims who actually have the Quran right in front of them will obviously know better than non-Muslims who copy/paste off a random website.

    As for your attempts to bring forth every non-Muslim's "chosen" verses in the Quran, I will be more than happy to interpret it for you. Seeing as your knowledge on the Quran is very limited, I will have to explain it to you.
    The Quran as you know, differs from the Bible. The Bible is written in chronological order in a story-like form. Whereas the Quran had verses sent down during different times. Some single verses in the Quran will not be understood if that verse were to be taken separately. The verses before and after must be taken into consideration in order to create the bigger picture. For example, it's like saying these 3 different sentences:
    "The president is evil." "I hate the President." "The President is a murderer."
    Now, if you were to take each sentence separately, the sentence represents it's own ideas. But let's say we combined the three sentences together:
    "I hate the evil President because he is a murderer."
    Now that as one whole sentence gives you the bigger picture, and gives you a logical explanation to the negative separate sentences.
    The same concept goes with the Quran. Of course any Muslim hater will only gain supporters by showing specifically selected verses of the Quran without showing you the verses before and after.

    Starting with the first verse you posted [9:5]. Did you take a look at the verses before and after?
    Quran [9:4]---Except those unbelievers with whom you made treaties and who did not violate these in the least, nor give help to anyone against you, so fulfill your treaties with such people according to the terms of the treaty, surely GOD loves the pious.

    Quran [9:6]---And if any unbelievers seeks from you protection, grant him protection so that he will hear the Words of GOD, then take him to place of his safety, this is because they are people who do not know.

    [So, not only is God saying for Muslims to keep their promises to NON-Muslims, but also to PROTECT NON-Muslims.] So, when you look at the verse [9:5] in between them, you'll have the bigger picture. That verse was in regards of WAR. And I'm pretty sure you know that during War, people kill their opponents, as that's what War IS. Notice how the image has changed once provided the verse before and after? Not to mention, the reasons and explanation of that verse become verified.]
  • 2:256 as noted by you refers to God, but muslims do not use the word God. Muslims use Allah. Have you been possessed by a jinn, my dear man. Or is this more taqqiya.

    Trying to confuse the less knowing with a play on words.

    The correct way to write 2:256 is the following:

    There is no compulsion in religion; truly the right way has become clearly distinct from error; therefore, whoever disbelieves in the Shaitan (Satan) and believes in Allah, he indeed has laid hold on the firmest handle, which shall not break off, and Allah is Hearing, Knowing.

    Please follow the Quran correctly.
  • You have quoted 3:20 wrong, or rather copied it verbatim from submission.org. As you did with all the verses you quoted. Shame, shame my dear man. Are you a true muslim? Surely, a true muslim would not misquote the Quran.

    But muslims may engage in taqqiya or deception while engaging with the unbelievers. Correct.

    3:20 correctly states: But if they dispute with you, say: I have submitted myself entirely to Allah and (so) everyone who follows me; and say to those who have been given the Book and the unlearned people; Do you submit yourselves? So if they submit then indeed they indeed follow the right way; and if they turn back, then upon you is only the delivery of the message and Allah sees the servants.

    Which doesn't say much, except that you offer submission to the unbelievers and if they refuse you then you have done your job...for now.

    Let us look at Surah IX, surely you are familiar with this.

    9:5 states: So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up the prayer and pay the poor rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

    9:12 states: And if they break their oaths after their agreement and (openly) revile your religion, then fight the leaders of unbelief--surely their oaths are nothing--so that they may desist.

    9:14 states: Fight them; Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace, and assist you against them and heal the hearts of a believing people.

    9:29 states: Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgement of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

    9:30 states: And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away.

    9:73 states: O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination.

    9:123 states: O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

    Please take note that going back to the doctrine of abrogation, the vast majority of the ulema agree that Quran 9:5, famously known as ayat al-saif — the “sword verse” — has abrogated some 124 of the more peaceful Meccan verses.

    Hardly a compassionate religion. Nice try though.
  • You have quoted 3:20 wrong, or rather copied it verbatim from submission.org. As you did with all the verses you quoted. Shame, shame my dear man. Are you a true muslim? Surely, a true muslim would not misquote the Quran.

    But muslims may engage in taqqiya or deception while engaging with the unbelievers. Correct.

    3:20 correctly states: But if they dispute with you, say: I have submitted myself entirely to Allah and (so) everyone who follows me; and say to those who have been given the Book and the unlearned people; Do you submit yourselves? So if they submit then indeed they indeed follow the right way; and if they turn back, then upon you is only the delivery of the message and Allah sees the servants.

    Which doesn't say much, except that you offer submission to the unbelievers and if they refuse you then you have done your job...for now.

    Let us look at Surah IX, surely you are familiar with this.

    9:5 states: So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up the prayer and pay the poor rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

    9:12 states: And if they break their oaths after their agreement and (openly) revile your religion, then fight the leaders of unbelief--surely their oaths are nothing--so that they may desist.

    9:14 states: Fight them; Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace, and assist you against them and heal the hearts of a believing people.

    9:29 states: Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgement of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

    9:30 states: And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away.

    9:73 states: O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination.

    9:123 states: O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

    Please take note that going back to the doctrine of abrogation, the vast majority of the ulema agree that Koran 9:5, famously known as ayat al-saif — the “sword verse” — has abrogated some 124 of the more peaceful Meccan verses.

    Hardly a compassionate religion. Nice try though.
  • You have quoted 3:20 wrong, or rather copied it verbatim from submission.org. As you did with all the verses you quoted. Shame, shame my dear man. Are you a true muslim? Surely, a true muslim would not misquote the Quran.

    But muslims may engage in taqqiya or deception while engaging with the unbelievers. Correct.

    3:20 correctly states: But if they dispute with you, say: I have submitted myself entirely to Allah and (so) everyone who follows me; and say to those who have been given the Book and the unlearned people; Do you submit yourselves? So if they submit then indeed they indeed follow the right way; and if they turn back, then upon you is only the delivery of the message and Allah sees the servants.
    Which doesn't say much, except that you offer submission to the unbelievers and if they refuse you then you have done your job...for now.

    Let us look at Surah IX, surely you are familiar with this.

    9:5 states: So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up the prayer and pay the poor rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

    9:12 states: And if they break their oaths after their agreement and (openly) revile your religion, then fight the leaders of unbelief--surely their oaths are nothing--so that they may desist.

    9:14 states: Fight them; Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace, and assist you against them and heal the hearts of a believing people.

    9:29 states: Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgement of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

    9:30 states: And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away.

    9:73 states: O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination.

    9:123 states: O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

    Please take note that going back to the doctrine of abrogation, the vast majority of the ulema agree that Koran 9:5, famously known as ayat al-saif — the “sword verse” — has abrogated some 124 of the more peaceful Meccan verses.

    Hardly a compassionate religion. Nice try though.
  • hellosnackbar
    You seem to want to debate Islamic theology when most contributors to this holy site wish to debate the alien and seditious nature of your personal death cult.
    One doesn't need to be a scholar to know that "dogshit "stinks.
    Indeed a gaseous analysis of the gas mixture released therefrom might seem superflous.
    What contributors to this site really want is to comment or (refute in your case) the
    pernicious nature of your personal death cult.
    That the backward and evil ideology of Islam has invaded our national consciense
    is the reason that this "holy" site exists.
    The unrepresentative influence of your coreligionists could not have been effected
    without the aid of the corrupt and exrtemely stupid liberal left;whom I hold equally
    responsible for the current chronic inflammation of the western cultural body.
    If you want to be taken seriously then give us a critical anaysis of the current
    "Opinionator" article posted on this site.
    If you can refute and destroy logically(according to logical ethical precepts) the
    contents posted therein then you'll earn our respect.(remember that this has to be
    earned).
    Otherwise when promulgating an arguement ad hominems strawman etc. statements are phony and worthless.
    BTW you use American spellings are you unhappy living there or would life in that
    model of free speech theKSA or one of the moronistans be a better alternative.
  • Beej, do you notice how you only ask me questions to answer but never respond to them when I reply? You do not even respond to my statements, but create new questions for me to answer. Quite pathetic if you ask me. How about we do something else for a change? Why don't YOU give me the evidence in the Quran about your claim on "wife beating" in Islam? I'm just curious to see what you'll come up with.
    You know what, I'll also do something for you. I will provide you "interesting" verses in the Bible relating to Women:

    1Tim 2:11-12
    Let a woman learn in silence with full submission. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to keep silent.

    Deut 25:11-12
    11--If men get into a fight with one another, and the wife of one intervenes to rescue her husband from the grip of his opponent by reaching out and seizing his genitals, 12--you shall cut off her hand; show no pity.
    (I wonder how a Christian will refute these verses)

    As for your question: "but your reference to evidence from the Koran puzzles me. Evidence for what?"
    What are you illiterate? If you just read my last post above, you could see I was refuting Quagmire's statement : "Accept Islam or die". And I refuted that by giving evidence in the Quran that clearly opposed that claim.

    Beej, your compelling ability to bring forth questions you think I am incapable of refuting only brings upon your ignorance--Not to mention embarrassment. Although I have to admit it's always a pleasure to debate you, or anyone else for that matter.
  • diddly poo
    FINALLY, im so pleased to see someone with some intelligence... i applaud u...LITERALLY not sarcastically... shame on all these other idiots posting on here, no base to their pitiful and terribly constructed comments ive heard better worded and more intelligent statement from elementary age children.
  • Necrowulf
    You mean, you think your comments are well constructed and that it can show some meaningful ideas? You sir, are smoking something so heavy and bad that really peaks my curiosity as to what it is.

    It must be something quite illegal.
  • Beej, do you notice how you only ask me questions to answer but never respond to them when I reply? You do not even respond to my statements, but create new questions for me to answer. Quite pathetic if you ask me. How about we do something else for a change? Why don't YOU give me the evidence in the Quran about your claim on "wife beating" in Islam? I would just LOVE to see what you'll come up with.
    You know what, I'll also do something for you. I will provide you "interesting" verses in the Bible relating to Women:

    1Tim 2:11-12
    Let a woman learn in silence with full submission. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to keep silent.

    Deut 25:11-12
    11--If men get into a fight with one another, and the wife of one intervenes to rescue her husband from the grip of his opponent by reaching out and seizing his genitals, 12--you shall cut off her hand; show no pity.
    (I wonder how a Christian will refute these verses)

    As for your question: "but your reference to evidence from the Koran puzzles me. Evidence for what?"
    What are you illiterate? If you just read my last post above, you could see I was refuting Quagmire's statement : "Accept Islam or die". And I refuted that by giving evidence in the Quran that clearly opposed that claim.

    Beej, your compelling ability to bring forth questions you think I am incapable of refuting only brings upon your ignorance--Not to mention embarrassment. Although I have to admit it's always a pleasure to debate you, or anyone else for that matter.
  • Beej, do you notice how you only ask me questions to answer but never respond to them when I reply? You do not even respond to my statements, but create new questions for me to answer. Quite pathetic if you ask me. How about we do something else for a change? Why don't YOU give me the evidence in the Quran about your claim on "wife beating" in Islam? I would just LOVE to see what you'll come up with.
    You know what, I'll also do something for you. I will provide you "interesting" verses in the Bible relating to Women:

    1Tim 2:11-12
    Let a woman learn in silence with full submission. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to keep silent.

    Deut 25:11-12
    11--If men get into a fight with one another, and the wife of one intervenes to rescue her husband from the grip of his opponent by reaching out and seizing his genitals, 12--you shall cut off her hand; show no pity.
    (I wonder how a Christian will refute these verses)

    As for your question: "but your reference to evidence from the Koran puzzles me. Evidence for what?"
    What are you illiterate? If you just read my last post above, you could see I was refuting Quagmire's statement : "Accept Islam or die". And I refuted that by giving evidence in the Quran that clearly opposed that claim.

    Beej, your compelling ability to bring forth questions you think I am incapable of refuting only brings upon your ignorance--Not to mention embarrassment. Although I have to admit it's always a pleasure to debate you, or anyone else for that matter.
  • Right on-this is something I have been arguing for! Let us suppose that in the West, a rich pedophile, rapist and racist bigot got up a cult that involved raping and murdering women, children and people of other races. He would have all his assets stripped and given in compensation to his victims. The oil wealth of Saudi Arabia belongs to the vast swathes of those mutilated and murdered by the evil ideas spread by the Saudi dysgenic kingdom, weather they are the victims of 9/11 or acid attack women victims in Pakistan. The Saudi religious police should be made individually liable for the disabled children resulting from their sabotage of the normal sexual selection process.
  • Right on-this is something I have been arguing for! Let us suppose that in the West, a rich pedophile, rapist and racist bigot got up a cult that involved raping and murdering women, children and people of other races. He would have all his assets stripped and given in compensation to his victims. The oil wealth of Saudi Arabia belongs to the vast swathes of those mutilated and murdered by the evil ideas spread by the Saudi dysgenic kingdom, weather they are the victims of 9/11 or acid attack women victims in Pakistan. The Saudi religious police should be made individually liable for the disabled children resulting from their sabotage of the normal sexual selection process.
  • Beej, do you notice how you only ask me questions to answer but never respond to them when I reply? You do not even respond to my statements, but create new questions for me to answer. Quite pathetic if you ask me. How about we do something else for a change? Why don't YOU give me the evidence in the Quran about your claim on "wife beating" in Islam? I would just LOVE to see what you'll come up with.
    You know what, I'll also do something for you. I will provide you "interesting" verses in the Bible relating to Women:

    1Tim 2:11-12
    Let a woman learn in silence with full submission. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to keep silent.

    Deut 25:11-12
    11--If men get into a fight with one another, and the wife of one intervenes to rescue her husband from the grip of his opponent by reaching out and seizing his genitals, 12--you shall cut off her hand; show no pity.
    (I wonder how a Christian will refute these verses)

    As for your question: "but your reference to evidence from the Koran puzzles me. Evidence for what?"
    What are you illiterate? If you just read my last post above, you could see I was refuting Quagmire's statement when she made the statement: "Accept Islam or die". And I refuted that by giving her evidence in the Quran that clearly opposed her claim.

    Beej, your compelling ability to bring forth questions you think I am incapable of refuting only brings upon your ignorance--Not to mention embarrassment. Although I have to admit it's always a pleasure to debate you, or anyone else for that matter.
  • Beej, do you notice how you only ask me questions to answer but never respond to them when I reply? You do not even respond to my statements, but create new questions for me to answer. Quite pathetic if you ask me. How about we do some change? Why don't YOU give me the evidence in the Quran about your claims on "wife beating"? And I will be more than happy to refute it.
    But I will also do something for you. I will give you "interesting" verses in the Bible relating to women.

    1Tim 2:11-12
    Let a woman learn in silence with full submission. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to keep silent.

    Deut 25:11-12
    11--If men get into a fight with one another, and the wife of one intervenes to rescue her husband from the grip of his opponent by reaching out and seizing his genitals, 12--you shall cut off her hand; show no pity.
    (I wonder how a Christian will refute these verses)

    As for your question: "but your reference to evidence from the Koran puzzles me. Evidence for what?"
    What are you illiterate? If you just read my last post above, you could see I was refuting Quagmire's statement when she made the statement: "Accept Islam or die". And I refuted that by giving her evidence in the Quran that clearly opposed her claim.

    Beej, your compelling ability to bring forth questions you think I am incapable of refuting only brings upon your ignorance--Not to mention embarrassment. Although I have to admit it's always a pleasure to debate you, or anyone else for that matter.
  • Beej, do you notice how you only ask me questions to answer but never respond to them when I reply? You do not even respond to my statements, but create new questions for me to answer. Quite pathetic if you ask me. How about we do some change? Why don't YOU give me the evidence in the Quran about your claims on "wife beating"? And I will be more than happy to refute it.
    But I will also do something for you. I will give you "interesting" verses in the Bible relating to women.

    1Tim 2:11-12
    Let a woman learn in silence with full submission. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to keep silent.

    Deut 25:11-12
    11--If men get into a fight with one another, and the wife of one intervenes to rescue her husband from the grip of his opponent by reaching out and seizing his genitals, 12--you shall cut off her hand; show no pity.
    (I wonder how a Christian will refute these verses)

    As for your question: "but your reference to evidence from the Koran puzzles me. Evidence for what?"
    What are you illiterate? If you just read my last post above you could see I was refuting Quagmire's statement when she made the statement: "Accept Islam or die". And I refuted that by giving her evidence in the Quran that clearly opposed her claim.

    Beej, your compelling ability to bring forth questions you think I am incapable of refuting only brings upon your ignorance--Not to mention embarrassment. Although I have to admit it's always a pleasure to debate you, or anyone else for that matter.
  • Beej, do you notice how you only ask me questions to answer but never respond to them when I reply? You do not even respond to my statements, but create new questions for me to answer. Quite pathetic if you ask me. How about we do some change? Why don't YOU give me the evidence in the Quran about your claims on "wife beating"? And I will be more than happy to refute it.
    But I will also do something for you. I will give you "interesting" verses in the Bible relating to women.

    1Tim 2:11-12
    Let a woman learn in silence with full submission. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to keep silent.

    Deut 25:11-12
    11--If men get into a fight with one another, and the wife of one intervenes to rescue her husband from the grip of his opponent by reaching out and seizing his genitals, 12--you shall cut off her hand; show no pity.
    (I wonder how a Christian will refute these verses)

    As for your question: "but your reference to evidence from the Koran puzzles me. Evidence for what?"
    What are you illiterate? If you read the posts above you could see I was refuting Quagmire's statement when she made the statement: "Accept Islam or die". And I refuted that by giving her evidence in the Quran that clearly opposed her claim.

    Beej, your compelling ability to bring forth questions you think I am incapable of refuting only brings upon your ignorance--Not to mention embarrassment. Although I have to admit it's always a pleasure to debate you, or anyone else for that matter.
  • Beej, do you notice how you only ask me questions to answer but never respond to them when I reply? You do not even respond to my statements, but create new questions for me to answer. Quite pathetic if you ask me. How about we do some change? Why don't YOU give me the evidence in the Quran about your claims on "wife beating"? And I will be more than happy to refute it.
    But I will also do something for you. I will give you "interesting" verses in the Bible relating to women.

    1Tim 2:11-12
    Let a woman learn in silence with full submission. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to keep silent.

    Deut 25:11-12
    11--If men get into a fight with one another, and the wife of one intervenes to rescue her husband from the grip of his opponent by reaching out and seizing his genitals, 12--you shall cut off her hand; show no pity.
    (I wonder how a Christian will refute these verses)

    As for your question: "but your reference to evidence from the Koran puzzles me. Evidence for what?"
    What are you illiterate? If you read the posts above you could see I was refuting Quagmire's statement when she made the statement: "Accept Islam or die". And I refuted that by giving her evidence in the Quran that clearly opposed her claim.

    Beej, your compelling ability to bring forth questions you think I am incapable of refuting only brings upon your ignorance--Not to mention embarrassment. Although it's always a pleasure to be debating you, or anyone else for that matter.
  • Beej, do you notice how you only ask me questions to answer but never respond to them when I reply? You do not even respond to my statements, but create new questions for me to answer. Quite pathetic if you ask me. How about we do some change? Why don't YOU give me the evidence in the Quran about your claims on "wife beating"? And I will be more than happy to refute it.
    But I will also do something for you. I will give you "interesting" verses in the Bible relating to women.

    1Tim 2:11-12
    Let a woman learn in silence with full submission. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to keep silent.

    Deut 25:11-12
    11--If men get into a fight with one another, and the wife of one intervenes to rescue her husband from the grip of his opponent by reaching out and seizing his genitals, 12--you shall cut off her hand; show no pity.
    (I wonder how a Christian will refute these verses)

    As for your question: "but your reference to evidence from the Koran puzzles me. Evidence for what?"
    What are you illiterate? If you were reading the posts above you could see I was refuting Quagmire's statement when she made the statement: "Accept Islam or die". And I refuted that by giving her evidence in the Quran that clearly opposed her claim.

    Beej, your compelling ability to bring forth questions you think I am incapable of refuting only brings upon your ignorance--Not to mention embarrassment. Although it's always a pleasure to be debating you, or anyone else for that matter.
  • Beej, do you notice how you only ask me questions to answer but never respond to them when I reply? You do not even respond to my statements, but create new questions for me to answer. Quite pathetic if you ask me. How about some change? Why don't YOU give me the evidence in the Quran about your claims on "wife beating". And I will be more than happy to refute it.
    But I will also do something for you. I will give you "interesting" verses in the Bible relating to women.

    1Tim 2:11-12
    Let a woman learn in silence with full submission. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to keep silent.

    Deut 25:11-12
    11--If men get into a fight with one another, and the wife of one intervenes to rescue her husband from the grip of his opponent by reaching out and seizing his genitals, 12--you shall cut off her hand; show no pity.
    (I wonder how a Christian will refute these verses)

    As for your question: "but your reference to evidence from the Koran puzzles me. Evidence for what?"
    What are you illiterate? If you were reading the posts above you could see I was refuting Quagmire's statement when she made the statement: "Accept Islam or die". And I refuted that by giving her evidence in the Quran that clearly opposed her claim.

    Beej, your compelling ability to bring forth questions you think I am incapable of refuting only brings upon your ignorance--Not to mention embarrassment. Although it's always a pleasure to be debating you, or anyone else for that matter.
  • Beej, do you notice how you only ask me questions to answer but never respond to them when I reply? You do not even respond to my statements, but create new questions for me to answer. That's quite pathetic. How about some change? Why don't YOU give me the evidence in the Quran about your claims on "wife beating". And I will be more than happy to refute it.
    But I will also do something for you. I will give you "interesting" verses in the Bible relating to women.

    1Tim 2:11-12
    Let a woman learn in silence with full submission. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to keep silent.

    Deut 25:11-12
    11--If men get into a fight with one another, and the wife of one intervenes to rescue her husband from the grip of his opponent by reaching out and seizing his genitals, 12--you shall cut off her hand; show no pity.
    (I wonder how a Christian will refute these verses)

    As for your question: "but your reference to evidence from the Koran puzzles me. Evidence for what?"
    What are you illiterate? If you were reading the posts above you could see I was refuting Quagmire's statement when she made the statement: "Accept Islam or die". And I refuted that by giving her evidence in the Quran that clearly opposed her claim.

    Beej, your compelling ability to bring forth questions you think I am incapable of refuting only brings upon your ignorance--Not to mention embarrassment. Although it's always a pleasure to be debating you, or anyone else for that matter.
  • Beej, do you notice how you only ask me questions to answer but never respond to them when I reply? You do not even respond to my statements, but create new questions for me to answer. That's quite pathetic. How about some change? Why don't YOU give me the evidence in the Quran about your claims on "wife beating". And I will be more than happy to refute it.
    But I will also do something for you. I will give you "interesting" verses in the Bible relating to women.

    1Tim 2:11-12
    Let a woman learn in silence with full submission. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to keep silent.

    Deut 25:11-12
    11--If men get into a fight with one another, and the wife of one intervenes to rescue her husband from the grip of his opponent by reaching out and seizing his genitals, 12--you shall cut off her hand; show no pity.
    (I wonder how a Christian will refute these verses)

    As for your question: "but your reference to evidence from the Koran puzzles me. Evidence for what?"
    What are you illiterate? If you were reading our posts you could see I was refuting Quagmire's statement when she made the statement: "Accept Islam or die". And I refuted that by giving her evidence in the Quran that clearly opposed her claim.

    Beej, your compelling ability to bring forth questions you think I am incapable of refuting only brings upon your ignorance--Not to mention embarrassment. Although it's always a pleasure to be debating you, or anyone else for that matter.
  • Beej, do you notice how you only ask me questions to answer but never respond to them when I reply? You do not even respond to my statements, but create new questions for me to answer. That's quite pathetic. How about some change? Why don't YOU give me the evidence in the Quran about your claims on "wife beating". And I will be more than happy to refute it. And I will also do something for you. I will give you "interesting" verses in the Bible relating to women.

    1Tim 2:11-12
    Let a woman learn in silence with full submission. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to keep silent.

    Deut 25:11-12
    11--If men get into a fight with one another, and the wife of one intervenes to rescue her husband from the grip of his opponent by reaching out and seizing his genitals, 12--you shall cut off her hand; show no pity.
    (I wonder how a Christian will refute these verses)

    As for your question: "but your reference to evidence from the Koran puzzles me. Evidence for what?"
    What are you illiterate? If you were reading our posts you could see I was refuting Quagmire's statement when she made the statement: "Accept Islam or die". And I refuted that by giving her evidence in the Quran that clearly opposed her claim.

    Beej, your compelling ability to bring forth questions you think I am incapable of refuting only brings upon your ignorance--Not to mention embarrassment. Although it's always a pleasure to be debating you, or anyone else for that matter.
  • Beej, do you notice how you only ask me questions to answer but never respond to them when I reply? You do not even respond to my statements, but create new questions for me to answer. That's quite pathetic. How about some change? Why don't YOU give me the evidence in the Quran about your claims on "wife beating". And I will be more than happy to refute it. And I will also do something for you. I will give you "interesting" verses in the Bible relating to women.

    1Tim 2:11-12
    Let a woman learn in silence with full submission. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to keep silent.

    Deut 25:11-12
    11--If men get into a fight with one another, and the wife of one intervenes to rescue her husband from the grip of his opponent by reaching out and seizing his genitals, 12--you shall cut off her hand; show no pity.
    (I wonder how a Christian will refute these verses)

    As for your question: "but your reference to evidence from the Koran puzzles me. Evidence for what?"
    What are you illiterate? I was refuting Quagmire's statement when she made the statement: "Accept Islam or die". And I refuted that by giving her evidence in the Quran that clearly opposed her claim.

    Beej, your compelling ability to bring forth questions you think I am incapable of refuting only brings upon your ignorance--Not to mention embarrassment. Although it's always a pleasure to be debating you, or anyone else for that matter.
  • Beej, do you notice how you only ask me questions to answer but never respond to them when I reply? You do not even respond to my statements, but create new questions for me to answer. That's quite pathetic. How about some change? Why don't YOU give me the evidence in the Quran about your claims on "wife beating". And I will be more than happy to refute it. And I will also do something for you. I will give you "interesting" verses in the Bible relating to women.

    1Tim 2:11-12
    Let a woman learn in silence with full submission. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to keep silent.

    Deut 25:11-12
    11--If men get into a fight with one another, and the wife of one intervenes to rescue her husband from the grip of his opponent by reaching out and seizing his genitals, 12--you shall cut off her hand; show no pity.
    (I wonder how a Christian will refute these verses)

    As for your question: "but your reference to evidence from the Koran puzzles me. Evidence for what?"
    Oh, I'm sorry I didn't know you were illiterate. I was refuting Quagmire's statement when she made the statement: "Accept Islam or die". And I refuted that by giving her evidence in the Quran that clearly opposed her claim.

    Beej, your compelling ability to bring forth questions you think I am incapable of refuting only brings upon your ignorance--Not to mention embarrassment. Although it's always a pleasure to be debating you, or anyone else for that matter.
  • Beej, do you notice how you only ask me questions to answer but never respond to them when I reply? You do not even respond to my statements, but create new questions for me to answer. That's quite pathetic. How about some change? Why don't YOU give me the evidence in the Quran about your claims on "wife beating". And I will be more than happy to refute it. And I will also do something for you. I will give you "interesting" verses in the Bible relating to women.

    1Tim 2:11-12
    Let a woman learn in silence with full submission. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to keep silent.

    Deut 25:11-12
    11--If men get into a fight with one another, and the wife of one intervenes to rescue her husband from the grip of his opponent by reaching out and seizing his genitals, 12--you shall cut off her hand; show no pity.
    (I wonder how a Christian will refute these verses)

    As for your question: "but your reference to evidence from the Koran puzzles me. Evidence for what?"
    Oh, I'm sorry I didn't know you were illiterate. I was refuting Quagmire's statement when she made the statement: "Accept Islam or die". And I refuted that by giving her evidence in the Quran that clearly opposed her claim.

    Beej, your compelling ability to bring forth questions you think I am incapable of refuting only brings upon your ignorance--Not to mention embarrassment. Although it's always a pleasure to be debating you, or anyone else for that matter.
  • Beej, do you notice how you only ask me questions to answer but never respond to them when I reply? You do not even respond to my statements, but create new questions for me to answer. That's quite pathetic. How about some change? Why don't YOU give me the evidence in the Quran about your claims on "wife beating". And I will be more than happy to refute it. And I will also do something for you. I will give you "interesting" verses in the Bible relating to women.

    1Tim 2:11-12
    Let a woman learn in silence with full submission. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to keep silent.

    Deut 25:11-12
    11--If men get into a fight with one another, and the wife of one intervenes to rescue her husband from the grip of his opponent by reaching out and seizing his genitals, 12--you shall cut off her hand; show no pity.
    (I wonder how a Christian will refute these verses)

    As for your question: "but your reference to evidence from the Koran puzzles me. Evidence for what?"
    Oh, I'm sorry I didn't know you were illiterate. I was refuting Quagmire's statement when she made the statement: "Accept Islam or die". And I refuted that by giving her evidence that clearly opposed her claim.

    Beej, your compelling ability to bring forth questions you think I am incapable of refuting only brings upon your ignorance--Not to mention embarrassment. Although it's always a pleasure to be debating you, or anyone else for that matter.
  • Beej, do you notice how you only ask me questions to answer but never respond to them when I reply? You do not even respond to my statements, but create new questions for me to answer. That's quite pathetic. How about some change? Why don't YOU give me the evidence in the Quran about your claims on "wife beating". And I will be more than happy to refute it. And I will also do something for you. I will give you "interesting" verses in the Bible relating to women.

    1Tim 2:11-12
    Let a woman learn in silence with full submission. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to keep silent.

    Deut 25:11-12
    11--If men get into a fight with one another, and the wife of one intervenes to rescue her husband from the grip of his opponent by reaching out and seizing his genitals, 12--you shall cut off her hand; show no pity.
    (I wonder how a Christian will refute these verses)

    As for your question: "but your reference to evidence from the Koran puzzles me. Evidence for what?"
    Oh, I'm sorry I didn't know you were illiterate. I was refuting Quagmire's statement when she made the statement: "Accept Islam or die". And I refuted that by giving her evidence it clearly says otherwise in the Quran.

    Beej, your compelling ability to bring forth questions you think I am incapable of refuting only brings upon your ignorance--Not to mention embarrassment. Although it's always a pleasure to be debating you, or anyone else for that matter.
  • Beej, do you notice how you only ask me questions to answer but never respond to them when I reply? You do not even respond to my statements, but create new questions for me to answer. That's quite pathetic. How about some change? Why don't YOU give me the evidence in the Quran about your claims on "wife beating". And I will be more than happy to refute it. And I will also do something for you. I will give you "interesting" verses in the Bible relating to women.

    1Tim 2:11-12
    Let a woman learn in silence with full submission. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to keep silent.

    Deut 25:11-12
    11--If men get into a fight with one another, and the wife of one intervenes to rescue her husband from the grip of his opponent by reaching out and seizing his genitals, 12--you shall cut off her hand; show no pity.
    (I wonder how a Christian will refute these verses)

    As for your question: "but your reference to evidence from the Koran puzzles me. Evidence for what?"
    Oh, I'm sorry I didn't know you were illiterate. I was refuting Quagmire's statement when she made the statement: "Accept Islam or die". And I refuted that by giving her evidence it clearly says otherwise in the Quran.
    Beej, your compelling ability to bring forth questions you think I am incapable of refuting only brings upon your ignorance--Not to mention embarrassment. Although it's always a pleasure to be debating you, or anyone else for that matter.
  • Beej, do you notice how you only ask me questions to answer but never respond to them when I reply? You do not even respond to my statements, but create new questions for me to answer. That's quite pathetic. How about some change? Why don't YOU give me the evidence in the Quran about your claims on "wife beating". And I will be more than happy to refute it. And I will also do something for you. I will give you "interesting" verses in the Bible relating to women.

    1Tim 2:11-12
    Let a woman learn in silence with full submission. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to keep silent.

    Deut 25:11-12
    11--If men get into a fight with one another, and the wife of one intervenes to rescue her husband from the grip of his opponent by reaching out and seizing his genitals, 12--you shall cut off her hand; show no pity.
    (I wonder how a Christian will refute these verses)

    Beej, your compelling ability to bring forth questions you think I am incapable of refuting only brings upon your ignorance--Not to mention embarrassment. Although it's always a pleasure to be debating you, or anyone else for that matter.
  • Beej, do you notice how you only ask me questions to answer but never respond to them when I reply? You do not even respond to my statements, but create new questions for me to answer. That's quite pathetic. How about some change? Why don't YOU give me the evidence in the Quran about your claims on "wife beating". And I will be more than happy to refute it. And I will also do something for you. I will give you "interesting" verses in the Bible relating to women.

    1Tim 2:11-12
    Let a woman learn in silence with full submission. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to keep silent.

    Deut 25:11-12
    11--If men get into a fight with one another, and the wife of one intervenes to rescue her husband from the grip of his opponent by reaching out and seizing his genitals, 12--you shall cut off her hand; show no pity.
    (I wonder how a Christian will refute these verses)

    Beej, your compelling ability to bring forth questions you think I am incapable of refuting only brings upon your ignorance--Not to mention embarrassment. Although it's always a pleasure to be debating you, or anyone else for that matter.
  • Beej, do you notice how you only ask me questions to answer but never respond to them when I reply? You do not even respond to my statements, but create new questions for me to answer. That's quite pathetic. How about some change? Why don't YOU give me the evidence in the Quran about your claims on "wife beating". And I will be more than happy to refute it. And I will also do something for you. I will give you "interesting" verses in the Bible relating to women.

    1Tim 2:11-12
    Let a woman learn in silence with full submission. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to keep silent.

    Deut 25:11-12
    11--If men get into a fight with one another, and the wife of one intervenes to rescue her husband from the grip of his opponent by reaching out and seizing his genitals, 12--you shall cut off her hand; show no pity.
    (I wonder how a Christian will refute these verses)

    Beej, your compelling ability to bring forth questions you think I am incapable of refuting only brings upon your ignorance--Not to mention embarrassment. It's always a pleasure to be debating you.
  • Beej, do you notice how you only ask me questions to answer but never respond to them when I reply? You do not even respond to my statements, but create new questions for me to answer. That's quite pathetic. How about some change? Why don't YOU give me the evidence in the Quran about your claims on "wife beating". And I will be more than happy to refute it. And I will also do something for you. I will give you "interesting" verses in the Bible relating to women.

    1Tim 2:11-12
    Let a woman learn in silence with full submission. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to keep silent.
    (but of course, these verses aren't regarded as anything, right?)

    Deut 25:11-12
    11--If men get into a fight with one another, and the wife of one intervenes to rescue her husband from the grip of his opponent by reaching out and seizing his genitals, 12--you shall cut off her hand; show no pity.
    (I wonder how a Christian will refute these verses)

    Beej, your compelling ability to bring forth questions you think I am incapable of refuting only brings upon your ignorance--Not to mention embarrassment. It's always a pleasure to be debating you.
  • Beej, do you notice how you only ask me questions to answer but never respond to them when I reply? You do not even respond to my statements, but create new questions for me to answer. That's quite pathetic. How about some change? Why don't YOU give me the evidence in the Quran about your claims on "wife beating". And I will be more than happy to refute it. But I will do something for you. I will give you a verses in the Bible relating to women.

    1Tim 2:11-12
    Let a woman learn in silence with full submission. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to keep silent.
    (but of course, these verses aren't regarded as anything, right?)

    Deut 25:11-12
    11--If men get into a fight with one another, and the wife of one intervenes to rescue her husband from the grip of his opponent by reaching out and seizing his genitals, 12--you shall cut off her hand; show no pity.
    (I wonder how a Christian will refute these verses)

    Beej, your compelling ability to bring forth questions you think I am incapable of refuting only brings upon your ignorance--Not to mention embarrassment. It's always a pleasure to be debating you.
  • Beej, do you notice how you only ask me questions to answer but never respond to them when I reply? You do not even respond to my statements, but create new questions for me to answer. That's quite pathetic. How about some change? Why don't YOU give me the evidence in the Quran about this "wife beating". And I will be more than happy to refute it. But I will do something for you. I will give you a verses in the Bible relating to women.

    1Tim 2:11-12
    Let a woman learn in silence with full submission. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to keep silent.
    (but of course, these verses aren't regarded as anything, right?)

    Deut 25:11-12
    11--If men get into a fight with one another, and the wife of one intervenes to rescue her husband from the grip of his opponent by reaching out and seizing his genitals, 12--you shall cut off her hand; show no pity.
    (I wonder how a Christian will refute these verses)

    Beej, your compelling ability to bring forth questions you think I am incapable of refuting only brings upon your ignorance--Not to mention embarrassment. It's always a pleasure to be debating you.
  • Beej, do you notice how you only ask me questions to answer but never respond to them when I reply? You do not even respond to my statements, but create new questions for me to answer. That's quite pathetic. How about a change. Why don't YOU give me the evidence in the Quran about this "wife beating". And I will be more than happy to refute it. But I will do something for you. I will give you a verses in the Bible relating to women.

    1Tim 2:11-12
    Let a woman learn in silence with full submission. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to keep silent.
    (but of course, these verses aren't regarded as anything, right?)

    Deut 25:11-12
    11--If men get into a fight with one another, and the wife of one intervenes to rescue her husband from the grip of his opponent by reaching out and seizing his genitals, 12--you shall cut off her hand; show no pity.
    (I wonder how a Christian will refute these verses)

    Beej, your compelling ability to bring forth questions you think I am incapable of refuting only brings upon your ignorance--Not to mention embarrassment. It's always a pleasure to be debating you.
  • Beejj
    Hello again, xkon. I did not read all of your message to Quagmire - as soon as I see quotations from the Koran or the Bible my eyes glaze over and I develop a powerful urge to vomit - but your reference to evidence from the Koran puzzles me. Evidence for what? Evidence that it's acceptable to beat your wife if she fails to obey or will not conform to your wishes? I ask simply because I would like to know .......
  • Quagmire, see this is why I enjoy talking to all of you. Do you know why? Simply because I realized that as soon as I tell someone to give me evidence from the Quran, they realize it cannot be found, and therefore try to refute their argument through defense, only in fact making the other debater seem more intelligent. And then it frustrates you and so many others that you cannot find anything intelligent (or through evidence) to respond in return.

    You quote: "You can't and won't answer my questions."
    Really? I even put your questions in context, with my answers right below each statement you made. It doesn't get more obvious than that. And someone doesn't even need to be ignorant to clearly see that, unless they happened to be blind.

    Do you want to know how most people converted to Islam? As soon as a non-Muslim debates with a Muslim, the Muslim ALWAYS gives factual evidence. The non-Muslim by time reaches a dead end and finally gives in, as the argument ends with the Muslim asking a question that a non-Muslim cannot answer. So it leaves the non-Muslim with two options. Either by bringing up other irrelevant points (out of the teachings of Islam) to change the subject as defense, or by choosing to embrace Islam. You'd actually be surprised how many non-Muslims (who admitted they had been ignorant) have embraced Islam in the end through debates like this. And if you want evidence for that, I'd be more than happy to give it to you. As ignorance never surpasses proof.

    So I have to tell you quagmire, that if you can't refute my statements, or give me evidence to your claims, then you are simply incapable of handling evidence. If that's the case, I advise you not to debate someone who will question you, because when you escape the answers, it will only prove that you are wrong. But seeing how as you refuse to answer your very own statement, maybe I can answer it for you.

    YOU claim that you either must accept Islam or die. I asked you to provide me evidence in the Quran. And of course, you gave me no reply. Why? Simply because there is NOT a SINGLE verse in the Quran that supports your claim. Actually, I'm going to help you out. Here are verses in the Quran saying that people are FREE to choose their religion.

    Quran [2:256]---There is no compulsion in Religion. Truth has become clear from error, therefore whoever disbelieves in Satan and believes in GOD has taken a firm support that never gives away. And GOD is All-Hearing, All-Knowing.

    Quran [3:20]---So if they argue with you, then say, "I have submitted myself to the Will of GOD, and so does whoever follows me." And say to the people of earlier Scripture and the pagans, "Will you submit to the will of GOD?" If they do submit, then they will be rightly guided, but if they turn away, it is only for you to convey the Message. And GOD is All-Seeing of His Servants.

    Quran [27:92]---And to recite the Quran. So whoever is guided, is guided for his own soul, and whoever goes astray, then say: "I am nothing but a warner."

    So you see, I have provided YOU with evidence, something that you and so many others have failed to give me. All that is of me, is to inform. What you and others choose to deny or believe, is all up to you in the end.
  • quagmire, see this is why I enjoy talking to all of you. Do you know why? Simply because I realized that as soon as I tell someone to give me evidence from the Quran, they realize it cannot be found, and therefore try to refute their argument through defense, only in fact making the other debater seem more intelligent. And then it frustrates you and so many others that you cannot find anything intelligent (or through evidence) to respond in return.

    You quote: "You can't and won't answer my questions."
    Really? I even put your questions in context, with my answers right below each statement you made. It doesn't get more obvious than that. And someone doesn't even need to be ignorant to clearly see that, unless they happened to be blind.

    Do you want to know how most people converted to Islam? As soon as a non-Muslim debates with a Muslim, the Muslim ALWAYS gives factual evidence. The non-Muslim by time reaches a dead end and finally gives in, as the argument ends with the Muslim asking a question that a non-Muslim cannot answer. So it leaves the non-Muslim with two options. Either by bringing up other irrelevant points (out of the teachings of Islam) to change the subject as defense, or by choosing to embrace Islam. You'd actually be surprised how many non-Muslims (who admitted they had been ignorant) have embraced Islam in the end through debates like this. And if you want evidence for that, I'd be more than happy to give it to you. As ignorance never surpasses proof.

    So I have to tell you quagmire, that if you can't refute my statements, or give me evidence to your claims, then you are simply incapable of handling evidence. If that's the case, I advise you not to debate someone who will question you, because when you escape the answers, it will only prove that you are wrong. But seeing how as you refuse to answer your very own statement, maybe I can answer it for you.

    YOU claim that you either must accept Islam or die. I asked you to provide me evidence in the Quran. And of course, you gave me no reply. Why? Simply because there is NOT a SINGLE verse in the Quran that supports your claim. Actually, I'm going to help you out. Here are verses in the Quran saying that people are FREE to choose their religion.

    Quran [2:256]---There is no compulsion in Religion. Truth has become clear from error, therefore whoever disbelieves in Satan and believes in GOD has taken a firm support that never gives away. And GOD is All-Hearing, All-Knowing.

    Quran [3:20]---So if they argue with you, then say, "I have submitted myself to the Will of GOD, and so does whoever follows me." And say to the people of earlier Scripture and the pagans, "Will you submit to the will of GOD?" If they do submit, then they will be rightly guided, but if they turn away, it is only for you to convey the Message. And GOD is All-Seeing of His Servants.

    Quran [27:92]---And to recite the Quran. So whoever is guided, is guided for his own soul, and whoever goes astray, then say: "I am nothing but a warner."

    So you see, I have provided YOU with evidence, something that you and so many others have failed to give me. All that is of me, is to inform. What you and others choose to deny or believe, is all up to you in the end.
  • quagmire, see this is why I enjoy talking to all of you. Do you know why? Simply because I realized that as soon as I tell someone to give me evidence from the Quran, they realize it cannot be found, and therefore try to refute their argument through defense, only in fact making the other debater seem more intelligent. And then it frustrates you and so many others that you cannot find anything intelligent (or through evidence) to respond in return.

    You quote: "You can't and won't answer my questions."
    Really? I even put your questions in context, with my answers right below each statement you made. It doesn't get more obvious than that. And someone doesn't even need to be ignorant to clearly see that, unless they happened to be blind.

    Do you want to know how most people converted to Islam? As soon as a non-Muslim debates with a Muslim, the Muslim ALWAYS gives factual evidence. The non-Muslim by time reaches a dead end and finally gives in, as the argument ends with the Muslim asking a question that a non-Muslim cannot answer. So it leaves the non-Muslim with two options. Either by bringing up other irrelevant points (out of the teachings of Islam) to change the subject as defense, or by choosing to embrace Islam. You'd actually be surprised how many non-Muslims (who admitted they had been ignorant) have embraced Islam in the end through debates like this. And if you want evidence for that, I'd be more than happy to give it to you. As ignorance never surpasses proof.

    So I have to tell you quagmire, that if you can't refute my statements, or give me evidence to your claims, then you are simply incapable of handling evidence. If that's the case, I advise you not to debate someone who will question you, because when you escape the answers, it will only prove that you are wrong. But seeing how as you refuse to answer your very own statement, maybe I can answer it for you.

    YOU claim that you either must accept Islam or die. I asked you to provide me evidence in the Quran. And of course, you gave me no reply. Why? Simply because there is NOT a SINGLE verse in the Quran that supports your claim. Actually, I'm going to help you out. Here are verses in the Quran saying that people are FREE to choose their religion.

    Quran [2:256]---There is no compulsion in Religion. Truth has become clear from error, therefore whoever disbelieves in Satan and believes in GOD has taken a firm support that never gives away. And GOD is All-Hearing, All-Knowing.

    Quran [3:20]---So if they argue with you, then say, "I have submitted myself to the Will of GOD, and so does whoever follows me." And say to the people of earlier Scripture and the pagans, "Will you submit to the will of GOD?" If they do submit, then they will be rightly guided, but if they turn away, it is only for you to convey the Message. And GOD is All-Seeing of His Servants.

    Quran [27:92]---And to recite the Quran. So whoever is guided, is guided for his own soul, and whoever goes astray, then say: "I am nothing but a warner."

    So you see, I have provided YOU with evidence, something that you and so many others have failed to give me. All that is of me, is to inform. What you and others choose to believe, is all up to you in the end.
  • quagmire, see this is why I enjoy talking to all of you. Do you know why? Simply because I realized that as soon as I tell someone to give me evidence from the Quran, they realize it cannot be found, and therefore try to refute their argument through defense, only in fact making the other debater seem more intelligent. And then it frustrates you and so many others that you cannot find anything intelligent (or through evidence) to respond in return.

    You quote: "You can't and won't answer my questions."
    Really? I even put your questions in context, with my answers right below each statement you made. It doesn't get more obvious than that. And someone doesn't even need to be ignorant to clearly see that, unless they happened to be blind.

    Do you want to know how most people converted to Islam? As soon as a non-Muslim debates with a Muslim, the Muslim ALWAYS gives factual evidence. The non-Muslim by time reaches a dead end and finally gives in, as the argument ends with the Muslim asking a question that a non-Muslim cannot answer. So it leaves the non-Muslim with two options. Either by bringing up other irrelevant points (out of the teachings of Islam) to change the subject as defense, or by choosing to embrace Islam. You'd actually be surprised how many non-Muslims (who admitted they had been ignorant) have embraced Islam in the end through debates like this. And if you want evidence for that, I'd be more