Jordanian man kills sister to cleanse family’s honour

Beejj, you quote: "...Muslim maniacs engage in "honour killing" OF WOMEN as a result of their religious beliefs..."

Then in response, I ask you to give me evidence in the Quran, according to what YOU said.

Then Beejj responds: "Xkon, stuff your Koran, open as it is to a spectrum of interpretations. The evidence is provided by the murdered women's bodies. "By their deeds shalt thou know them." "

And now my response:
So now you can't give me proof of something that YOU said, and in defense you say, "By their deeds shalt thou know them."

Beejj, tell me you aren't SERIOUS?! You being the racist, ignorant person you are, cannot find me evidence in the Quran according to YOUR claim, so in response you say that "people's actions" is how someone can judge/determine a group? Do you know how idiotic you sound right about now? So if that's the case, then the whole of the HUMAN RACE is to be "judged" for everyone's actions! Is it simply because you know that you're wrong, you'll say anything in defense? You'll only look more idiotic! And you wonder why some Muslims dislike non-Muslims? It's because of racist and ignorant people like you that we'll NEVER resolve problems. If I ask you to give me EVIDENCE according to something YOU said, and you cannot find it, then don't bother replying. You KNOW you don't make any sense, right?

In the words of Thomas Carlye: "THEY (the Christians) have been trained to hate the Man Mohammad and his religion". (Quoted by Ahmed Deedat, in his book called, "CRUCIFIXION or CRUCIFICTION")
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GET A LIFE

Since when is islam (or muslims) a race? Do you know the true meaning of the word "racist"? And why should Christians not be commanded to hate Mohammad and his "religion"? We are commanded by God to hate all things evil. Based on 1432 years of history, one can surmise that islam is evil. Not muslims (not all, anyway) but the totalitarian, supremacists ideaology espoused by Muhammad. As for evidence in the quran, we have several times provided that proof, and you simply say we have the translations wrong or "out of context".

The line "By their deeds shalt thou know them." is fitting. We hear the line all the time "islam is a religion of peace" even though every day we hear/see/or read about a muslim committing an act of violent jihad and using those same verses we provided you to justify that act. What more evidence can we provide, than the actions of those calling themselves muslims, waging jihad for allah's cause?

"Since when is islam (or muslims) a race? Do you know the true meaning of the word "racist"?"

Umm, yes. It's quite obvious you don't though. Or have you never lived in America too long enough to know that people call others racist if they discriminate a group of people?
[Google it]
According to the United Nations conventions, there is no distinction between the term racial discrimination and ethnic discrimination. Ethnic identity is further marked by the recognition from others of a group's distinctiveness and the recognition of common cultural, linguistic, RELIGIOUS, behavioral or biological traits, real or presumed, as indicators of contrast to other groups.

"And why should Christians not be commanded to hate Mohammad and his "religion"? We are commanded by God to hate all things evil."

Well to begin with, you and I obviously hold different opinions on who should be considered a "Christian". Jesus (according to Christianity) says that his followers must FOLLOW his teachings. Never heard of this saying by Jesus? :

[Matthew 5:44]: But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you.

Yeah, define who's Christian when you and the billions of "Christians" aren't exactly the best example of Jesus.

Mohammad (peace be upon him) evil? Do you know how absurd your statement is? Would you like me to show you verses in the New Testament?

[Matthew 10:34] : "Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword!"

Doesn't sound too peaceful, does it? So next time you tell a Muslim something related to verses in the Quran, think of all these "wonderful" verses in the Bible that need to be "interpreted" in order for others to understand its meaning. And as for you claiming that you provided evidence "several" times, you never provided me with anything. In fact, every time I asked you to provide me with evidence, you'd just change the topic.

"What more evidence can we provide, than the actions of those calling themselves muslims, waging jihad for allah's cause?"

I'm not asking for evidence on people's violent acts on innocent. I'm asking you for evidence JUSTIFYING these people's actions through the Quran. If you can't find evidence for that regrading the teachings of Islam (which you won't), and claim "By their deeds shalt thou know them", then that makes you RACIST (and ignorant).

Dear xkon,
I would venture to suggest that the majority of contributors here do not give a toss about the qran.
(dictated by god to the chosen illiterate psychopathic 7th century bandit
aka Mo the mad).or the Bible or the the Tibetan book of the dead,or any other ancient book of fantastic fairy stories.(shows impotent Allah as a bit of a dimwit)
The god of the bible was/is an imaginary angry lunatic invented by long dead perverts to cow the feeble minded contemporary proletariat.
What we are concerned with is similar feeble minded madmen(fueled by your insane ideology)
going around maiming and killing the innocent).
What I would like to hear from you is that as a proud muslim you have taken active steps to denounce in PUBLIC the murderous perversions of your faith.(and it is a faith i.e you believe in
nothing more than belief itself.)
And please don't trot out all the perceived grievances past and present of your demented coreligionists(it's a bore).
Let's hear you endorsing "freedom of speech"and if not why not?
Let's hear you applaud freedom of choice for women who(who can blame them)for not wanting to marry some old "fleabag" 2 and 3 times their age without threat to their lives.
Let's hear you champion apostacy for every muslim who wishes to abandon Islam.
In short if you disagree with any of the above your contributions are worthless.
If you are still imprisoned by the mental pathology that is Islam then contact Dr Ali Sina @
www.faithfreedom.org and he will surely help.
Finally if you could would you have me killed if you could?
I am the proud recipient of many death threats from your pals and savor everyone as conf
irmation that I'm dealing with an established death cult.
I've met many muslims in my time and a large percentage would give it up immediately were it not for the threats that would imply.
Islam should be proscribed, as an ideology incompatible with an individuals FREEDOM.

"Dear Hellosnackbar",
As much as I don't care about a word you said, I suggest you visit a psychiatrist that will help you with your mental and emotional disorders. The only real 'dimwit' I see, are the people that fail to see what exists around them. You insulting people's beliefs (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) shows your lack of intellect and exposes your stupidity. Your ignorance is just revolting.
As for Dr.Ali Sina, there's no need for informing me on one of the biggest psychopaths known to mankind. His "evidence" on Islam are more of fictions than facts. I'm not even a scholar and I could refute every single one of his claims. But if this Dr.Ali Sina "enlightens" you to the truth, by all means continue following the retards greater than yourself.

"Finally if you could would you have me killed if you could?"
Kill you?! Why on earth would I want to do that? I would take greater pleasure watching you before the Lord.

"I've met many muslims in my time and a large percentage would give it up immediately were it not for the threats that would imply."

Oh believe me. I have the freedom to leave Islam if I want to. And I would rather die on the spot then give up Islam.

"Islam should be proscribed, as an ideology incompatible with an individuals FREEDOM."

Islam IS my freedom. If you think Atheists are free, you are by far mistaken. Nowhere does real freedom exist in this life. You may not be restricted to things from religion, but you will ALWAYS be restricted to things outside of it. Do you think when you follow rules or abide by laws that makes you FREE?

Hellosnackbar, I know it must be frustrating knowing that you lack the average amount of brain cells, but don't worry, you will always have backup from people that share your same situation.
Surely in the end, you are the losers.
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"You will certainly hear much abuse from the followers of previous books and from the idol-worshipping people. And if you are patient and keep your duty -- this is surely a matter of great resolution." --Quran (3:185)

"Obey not the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and disregard their hurtful talk." --Quran (33:48)

"And if you invite them to guidance, they hear not; and thou seest them looking towards thee, yet they see not. Hold fast to forgiveness and enjoin goodness and turn away from the ignorant." --Quran (7:198-199)

"Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians -- whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord. And there will be no fear for them, nor shall they grieve"--Quran (2:62)

"And We sent, following in their footsteps, Jesus son of Mary, confirming the Torah before him, and We gave to him the Gospel, wherein is guidance and light, and confirming the Torah before it, as a guidance and an admonition unto the GOD-fearing." –Quran (5:46)

"Surely, those who believe and lead a righteous life, the Most Gracious will shower them with love." --Quran (19:96)

"Say: "We believe in GOD, and in what has been revealed to us, and what was revealed to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the tribes. And in what was given (the Books) to Moses, Jesus, and the Prophets from their Lord; We make no distinction between any of them, and to Allah we submit (in Islam)." –Quran (3:84)

"Mohammad is not the father of any of your men, but he is the Messenger of GOD, and the last of the Prophets, and GOD has full knowledge of all things." —Quran (33:40)

"And We only send the Messengers as bearers of glad tidings and as warners, but the unbelievers argue in falsehood attempting to refute the Truth. And they have taken My Signs, and that they are warned of in mockery." --Quran (18:56)

"Say: He is God, the One and Only; God, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; and there is none like unto Him."—Quran (112:1-4)

Dear oh dear xkon you are getting angry!
See a psychiatrist that's a good one;since I see one every day(he's a colleague)and he thinks I'm one of the sanest individuals on the planet(if a little cynical).
He's also a fellow atheist and we have agood laugh at those poor benighted souls(like you)whose embrace of restrictive mental slavery(i.e religion) perverts their purview of
the amazing universe we occupy.
There's so much to know and so much to enjoy through science and literature without polluting one's mind with the fantasies of demented religious mad men.
Here we are in the 21st century at the bicentennial of Charles Darwin(now there's a
man to admire).
Throw away those useless tomes of superstition and embrace inquiry,
Think about the vacuuous tosh contained within and join the real world.
And if you still have that "neckless of skulls"festooned around your neck(Kemal Attaturk 1922) then visit my prophet(Pat Condell) for some straight common sense.
Of course you can still visit a psychiatrist but you can solve this personal problem yourself and I can help.
And if you succeed we can have a ceremonial burning of my
pigskin bound Koran.
Ameen.

----------------------------------------[The Quran]----------------------------------------------------

[21:1] Fast approaching is the reckoning for the people, but they are oblivious, averse.

[21:2] When a proof comes to them from their Lord, that is new, they listen to it heedlessly.

[21:3] Their minds are heedless. And the transgressors confer secretly: "Is he not just a human being like you? Would you accept the magic that is presented to you?"*

[21:4] He said, "My Lord knows every thought in the heaven and the earth. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient."

[21:5] They even said, "Hallucinations," "He made it up," and, "He is a poet. Let him show us a miracle like those of the previous messengers."

[21:6] We never annihilated a believing community in the past. Are these people believers?

[21:7] We did not send before you except men whom we inspired. Ask those who know the scripture, if you do not know.

[21:8] We did not give them bodies that did not eat, nor were they immortal.

[21:9] We fulfilled our promise to them; we saved them together with whomever we willed, and annihilated the transgressors.

[21:10] We have sent down to you a scripture containing your message. Do you not understand?

[21:30] Do the unbelievers not realize that the heaven and the earth used to be one solid mass that we exploded into existence? And from water we made all living things. Would they believe?

[21:31] And we placed on earth stabilizers, lest it tumbles with them, and we placed straight roads therein, that they may be guided.

[21:32] And we rendered the sky a guarded ceiling. Yet, they are totally oblivious to all the portents therein.

[21:33] And He is the One who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon; each floating in its own orbit.

[21:34] We never decreed immortality for anyone before you; should you die, are they immortal?

[21:35] Every soul will taste death, after we put you to the test through adversity and prosperity, then to us you ultimately return.
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[51:6] The Day of Judgment is inevitable.

[51:7] Despite the perfectly created sky.

[51:8] You continue to dispute the truth.

[51:9] Deviating therefrom are the deviators.

[51:10] Woe to the falsifiers.

[51:11] In their blundering, they are totally heedless.

[51:20] The earth is full of signs for those who are certain.

[51:21] And in yourselves, do you not see?

[51:47] We constructed the sky with our hands, and we will continue to expand it.

[51:48] And we made the earth habitable; a perfect design.

[51:49] We created a pair (male and female) of everything, that you may take heed.

[51:50] You shall escape to GOD. I am sent by Him to you as a manifest warner.

[51:51] Do not set up beside GOD any other god. I am sent by Him to you as a manifest warner.

[51:52] Consistently, when a messenger went to the previous generations, they said, "Magician," or, "Crazy."

[51:53] Did they make an agreement with each other? Indeed, they are transgressors.

[51:54] You may disregard them; you cannot be blamed.

[51:55] And remind, for the reminder benefits the believers.

[51:60] Woe to those who disbelieved from the day that is awaiting them.
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[10:10] Say: "Behold all that is in the heavens and on earth"; but neither Signs nor Warners profit those who believe not.

Xkon, why do you persist in quoting your ludicrous book? What do think you achieve? No doubt the Christian zealots of the Inquisition and Crusades did something similar, but their doing so was of scant comfort to their victims. I and others care not a fig for your childish Koran, but if people wish to buy one (or a Bible) that's fine with me. As I keep trying to point out to you, it's the foul deeds of so many of the followers of your faith that concerns me and others, as well as their maniacal hatred of Jews - remember that stuff about "smooth as vipers", etc. just a few days ago? Of course, you will protest that your book says nothing about hating Jews and other infidels, in which case it seems it's failing in its task, but this does not the reality of 9/11, Spain, etc etc etc, all of which are modern Muslim "achievements". Throw your silly book into the nearest pigsty and open your eyes to the actions of your coreligionists as they claim to be doing Allah's work.

Beejj: "Of course, you will protest that your book says nothing about hating Jews and other infidels.."

Unless you can give me evidence otherwise, then yes.

17:53, 54 And tell my servants that they should speak in a most
kindly manner (unto those who do not share their beliefs). Verily, Satan is always ready to stir up discord between men; for verily; Satan is mans foe .... Hence, We have not sent you (Unto men O Prophet) with power to determine their Faith.

60:8 Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not
for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly
and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just.

"He who believes in God and the Last Day should honour his guest,
should not harm his neighbour, should speak good or keep quiet."
--Prophet Mohammad (Bukhari, Muslim)
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"...in which case it seems it's failing in its task, but this does not the reality of 9/11, Spain, etc etc etc,"

Does that mean you'll also include the "reality" of wars by America?

[Cited on : http://www.islamawareness.net/WarCrimes/America... ]

Ever since the United States Army massacred 300 Lakotas in 1890, American forces have intervened elsewhere around the globe 100 times. Indeed the United States has sent troops abroad or militarily struck other countries' territory 216 times since independence from Britain. Since 1945 the United States has intervened in more than 20 countries throughout the world.

Since World War II, the United States actually dropped bombs on 23 countries. These include: China 1945-46, Korea 1950-53, China 1950-53, Guatemala 1954, Indonesia 1958, Cuba 1959-60, Guatemala 1960, Congo 1964, Peru 1965, Laos 1964-73, Vietnam 1961-73, Cambodia 1969-70, Guatemala 1967-69, Grenada 1983, Lebanon 1984, Libya 1986, El Salvador 1980s, Nicaragua 1980s, Panama 1989, Iraq 1991-1999, Sudan 1998, Afghanistan 1998, and Yugoslavia 1999.

Post World War II, the United States has also assisted in over 20
different coups throughout the world, and the CIA was responsible for half a dozen assassinations of political heads of state.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And don't even get me started on 9/11:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgSS4jlK7Y0&feat...

Beejj: "Of course, you will protest that your book says nothing about hating Jews and other infidels"

Yes, of course I will. In fact, here's the opposite:

"If one among the unbelievers asks you for protection, grant it to him so that he may hear the Word of God; and then escort him to where he can be secure." --Quran (9:6)

2:256 There is no compulsion in religion, for the right way is
clearly from the wrong way. Whoever therefore rejects the forces of evil and believes in God, he has taken hold of a support most unfailing, which shall never give way, for God is All Hearing and Knowing.

16:82 But if they turn away from you, (O Prophet remember that)
your only duty is a clear delivery of the Message (entrusted to you).

60:8 Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not
for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly
and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"but this does not the reality of 9/11, Spain, etc etc etc,"

Oh, so do you also include the reality of wars not done ON America, but BY America?
[The following are not of my own words:]

Ever since the United States Army massacred 300 Lakotas in 1890,
American forces have intervened elsewhere around the globe 100 times. Indeed the United States has sent troops abroad or militarily struck other countries' territory 216 times since independence from Britain. Since 1945 the United States has intervened in more than 20 countries throughout the world.

Since World War II, the United States actually dropped bombs on 23
countries. These include: China 1945-46, Korea 1950-53, China 1950-53, Guatemala 1954, Indonesia 1958, Cuba 1959-60, Guatemala 1960, Congo 1964, Peru 1965, Laos 1964-73, Vietnam 1961-73, Cambodia 1969-70, Guatemala 1967-69, Grenada 1983, Lebanon 1984, Libya 1986, El Salvador 1980s, Nicaragua 1980s, Panama 1989, Iraq 1991-1999, Sudan 1998, Afghanistan 1998, and Yugoslavia 1999.

Post World War II, the United States has also assisted in over 20
different coups throughout the world, and the CIA was responsible for half a dozen assassinations of political heads of state.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And of course the list goes on.....

http://www.islamawareness.net/WarCrimes/America...
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Regarding 9/11:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgSS4jlK7Y0&feat...

Unless of course you have a better explanation through logic and science (which I'm sure you can relate to), then by all means go ahead and refute the evidence.

Oops! Sorry, xkon. I wrote Peru in my previous message, although I meant to write Chile - the Allende affair.

Xkon, you refuse to understand that what outrages me is NOT your ridiculous Koran, but the foul deeds of its readers. Quoting your book is no defence against, for example, the Mumbai murders. I have said, ad nauseam, that if "moderate" Muslims truly believe the actions of these wicked people run counter to Koranic teaching, they should do something about it, but they remain inactive. What interpretation is one to place upon this?

You give a list of American military actions over the years, including the total of 216 such actions since 1775 (1776?). Um, how many Muslim atrocities have occurred since 9/11? How many THOUSANDS? I note that some of the actions you listed are America's involvement in the Korean War, Kuwait (not mentioned as such) and the Balkans. WHY did America involve itself in Kuwait and the Balkans, or for that matter, Afghanistan? One thing is for certain: when America acts militarily it does so IN UNIFORM, unlike cowardly Muslim terrorists. You should also ponder the fact that millions of Americans loudly protested against America's involvement in Vietnam and Iraq, unlike Muslims when jihadists commit murder. Not being American, I do not feel as qualified to debate with you America's actions in all the theatres you listed as would a native of that country, so I hope an American will engage you on this matter. Do not think I am so ingenuous as to believe that America and its CIA are squeaky clean? Guatemala and Peru, for instance, are causes for American shame (although my knowledge of these is far from thorough). I'll say this for Americans, though: when they transgress they will admit to it, usually through the efforts of concerned historians who unearth the truth. It is a simple matter to find AMERICAN accounts of the massacre at My Lai, a fact which clearly indicates the overwhelming decency of the American people: they do not hide the facts; neither do they laud the cowardly actions of the guilty. Do Muslim historians and political commentators perform a similar task? Nope. You people reckon your murderers will be rewarded in the after-life. Quite different, isn't it?

See? I have attempted to make SOME response to that which you wrote, unlike you. Your idea of defence is to ignore the matter at hand and to "retaliate" by throwing up other matters. In doing so, you believe you are refuting (your favourite word - please look it up in a dictionary to find out what it means) that which has been presented to you. Is this what Islam does to the mind?

Woe,woe,and thrice woe.
xkon warning me of the perils that await me.
It reminds me of warnings I've had during my childhood.
"As I was walking by the stair I met a man who wasn't there.
He wasn't there again today.
I wish that man would go away.
On hearing this nursery rhyme as an eight year old I arrived at the conclusion that the writer was talking about god or allah or any other fictitious deity.(this caused alarm when I raised the matter during religious instruction)
xcon your epistemological deficit and your complete lack of ontological inquiry are sullying your life.
You are pathologically enslaved by the "black"comedy of Islam.
The arguments of the brain damaged of Islam always end with the fires
of hell; that the primitive despot allah will bring to bear on those that deny
his existence.
Well Allah you non existent excuse for a God bring it on and as a bonus
allow xkon the schadenfreude of witnessing the whole comedy.
That's what the death cult of Islam is based on ;fear, indoctrination and
psychopath allah's terrible retribution.
Thank allah I'm an atheist.
BTW if you want some fun with the q'ran then visit www.jihadidujour.blogspot.com.
Funny how laughing at Islam is taking up so much time these days
but I'm convinced that unrelenting derision is effective.
The death threats substantiate this.
BTW if allah is so mighty and shaitan so evil why doesn't allah the wrathful get rid of old shait.
I believe that allah is in cahoots with shaitan in allah's punishment division.
And as for Islam's X rated paradise it would be "hell" for me if I had to share the place with a bunch of Islamic idiots.
You never know that 'smaybe what capricious allah has in store.
The whole point is:Islam (and to a lesser extent other religions)are
absurd they depend entirely on unsubstantiated belief.
As the late Arthur C Clarke said I have no quarrel with religionists provided they keep their personal perversions within the confines of their own home.

An American doctor, Dr.Brown (former Atheist, and now a convert to Islam), discusses Atheism, Darwinism, and the purpose of life. Maybe Beejj can relate to him as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNKZC2DN-KU&feat...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr.Brown discusses how he went from being an Atheist to a Muslim:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J5_VETwfew&feat...
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[The Quran]:

[6:34] Messengers before you have been rejected, and they steadfastly persevered in the face of rejection. They were persecuted until our victory came to them. Such is GOD's system that will never change. The history of My messengers thus sets the precedents for you.

[6:35] If their rejection gets to be too much for you, you should know that even if you dug a tunnel through the earth, or climbed a ladder into the sky, and produced a miracle for them (they still would not believe). If it were GOD’s will, He could gather them all into true guidance, so don’t be among those who are influenced by ignorance.

I've tried making an appointment with Allah several times .
As he's omnicient, omnipotent,and omnipresent I thought that this would be no problem(apart from his nonexistence).
I want to discuss "anger management" with him but he never shows up for my good council.
I'll tell you this; if he ever turns up(with Mo in tow)I'll let everyone know and Kal ,Beej,and all the sceptics will convert
immediately.
BTW xkon read "the origin of species"(dispassionately)and see what a clear mind can achieve.
You may discover (if you are rational) what "brain poison" the
tenets of Islam actually are.
B TW2 Kal if you are reading this you can buy@www.prophetmohammed.co.uk a mug commemorating
the marriage of Mo to Aisha.
Spend some time in the archives section and learn "textspeak"
from moronic muslims(the ask Mo section)is a hoot.

Dr Brown? Who is Dr Brown? Does he have a doctorate? If so, in what? What was the topic of his doctoral thesis? Where did he earn his doctorate? When? Or is his "doctor" title an honorific, as is the case with nearly all medical practitioners?

So this guy became a Muslim, did he? Gosh, I must convert upon the instant! After all, a DOCTOR converted, so there must be good reason to follow in his footsteps. A DOCTOR, no less! Suddenly I am humbled. (Ever heard of a guy called DOCTOR Joseph Mengele? You should have ....... he's probably considered to be a hero in the Muslim world. An experimental gentleman, he was .......)

This is the second time you have made mention of Darwinism. Want to discuss it? To begin: what is the guts thought of Darwin's theory?

For the love of Allah (or should that be Aladdin?) stop quoting your idiotic iron-age book! Ladder into the sky!!!! Xkon, do yourself a favour ..... go to the nearest pharmacist (or witch doctor) and buy some IQ Improvement tablets.

Beejj, you are truly by far the most ignorant person I have ever encountered. The reason I posted these links was so that you could benefit from this guy's WORDS, not on his occupation! You'd actually think someone would get somewhere with you, but you're just a hopeless case.
Take whatever life has to offer you Beejj, because that is all that you will ever have.

Don't flatter me so, xkon, you old smoothie.

I should pay heed to the words of a nobody? A nobody so utterly clueless and devoid of grey matter that he DECIDES to convert to your mind-paralysing faith?

Life is all I will ever have? I'll gladly accept that deal and enjoy every moment. You, of course, have an eternity awaiting you .... an eternity to spend with virgin-fucking heroes and 60 year-old women with axes in their heads. Enjoy it.

What about Darwin, my scholar? Let's test each other's ignorance, shall we?

Yeah, refute the guy's words first, then we'll "talk". If it's anything I learned from you, is that time is valuable and should be used on people that are only worth real value. You Beejj, are a waste of time.
By the way, I'm somehow impressed to see the gradual change in you. You go from being to a somewhat reasonably misguided person, to an angry stubborn person using profanity as your shield. No brains and no morals. Good for you Beejj.

There you go again, xkon, trying to win me over with smooth talk. Stop it. You are making me blush!

Darwin? Smooth as vipers? My inferior brain awaits the sunshine of your vast intellect. Please don't let me down.

Beejj, I truly see this as useless seeing that whenever I refute your arguments, you tell me that I shouldn't bring up verses from the Quran (where there's the proof), or you switch the topic.

I realized where you got "smooth as vipers". You quote from a previous post:
"...it's high time we did something about these Jews, the vipers and sons of apes and pigs."

Beejj, you've obviously been mesmerized to the media for too long. Do you only hear what you want to hear? Here are two links briefly explaining your claims:

http://www.jewishjournal.com/thegodblog/item/qu...

http://www.theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/featur...

As for Darwinism, Muslims are not against the idea of evolution or the Big Bang Theory. The difference between Atheists and Muslims is that Atheists try to prove that man-kind came into existence through evolution and that from nothing the origins of life began with the Big Bang. Muslims, however, have no problem accepting evolution (to some extent), but differ in how earlier species existed in the first place. Also, the concept of the Big Bang theory does not clash with Muslim's beliefs. Muslims agree with the theory, but it's just the concept of how the Big Bang came about to begin with is the problem. Not a single Scientist/Atheist today has a logical explanation on how 'nothing' came about to be 'something'. Something cannot be created from nothing. It's scientifically impossible, Beejj.

What makes you think you have refuted anything, xkon? In your view, an unsavoury utterance by a Jew or Christian constitutes refutation of something said by a Muslim cleric. Strange logic.
All present living things are as they are through natural selection. If Muslims are happy with evolutionary theory they must be happy with that idea, although your "to some extent" is mysterious. Life did not begin with the Big Bang, if that's what you mean by the origins of life. Your "how earlier species existed in the first place" is interesting, so I hope you will expand upon this. How did the BB come about? To gain an understanding of this you must look deeply into quantum theory: a few surprises await you. Do you know anything about virtual photons, for example? There they are, coming into existence (from nothing) and disappearing again all the time. Scientists of appropriate intellect continually strive to find the answers, and physics gives a superb description of everything all the way back to 10 exp -43 second after the BB. Pretty impressive, but still some way to go, so the search for truth continues. How much better this is than saying God did it all! What a mindless cop-out! Where did God come from? Ah, he/she/it has always existed! More mindlessness. Um, if "God" has always existed, why could not the stuff of the universe, in whatever form, always have existed? It's a fair question. Science, though, does not like the idea of an eternal universe because all the best evidence to date suggests a "creation moment" - the moment when space and even time itself came into being. Unravelling this mystery is the greatest challenge science has ever faced, and it might never receive a satisfactory answer, but meeting the challenge is the very stuff of human nature, so the quest will continue. How much better and courageous is this than believing the tommyrot written in Genesis by people who had no idea of the nature of a star, let alone light! Invoking God is nothing more than passing the buck. But let us suppose that science one day produces a clear picture of creation. There are those who will say that this does not disprove God's existence: that God is the great architect behind it all. They ask for proof that God does not exist and gleefully rub their hands when science does not because it cannot so it does not waste its time trying to. A triumph for religion? Nope. How can science prove the non-existence of the non-existent?! I always come back to Bertrand Russell's teapot at this point. Understand?

The challenge of unraveling the earth's mysterious existence will never be discovered through science. Virtual photons or any other particle that comes into existence needs some or any kind of energy to begin with. Where did the energy come from to achieve this materialization? There is no such thing as "nothing" coming into existence without requiring any input of matter or energy at all; period. Until the day Scientists can prove this theory is wrong, then they don't have evidence to support their claims. Now you might say that people who believe in God don't have real proof either. But the thing is, there is more proof to that than denying the existence of God. You quote: "if God has always existed, why could not the stuff of the universe, in whatever form, always have existed? It's a fair question." No, actually it's not. God is a single powerful entity that was, is, and will exist. God does not change over the period of "time" that humans conceive. The Earth has, is, and will continue to change. Therefore, you cannot relate or compare between two completely different forms. Life is so complex. Look around you. Look at every human, animal, insect, plant. Look at how each is composed and what lies within these organisms. Look at the incredible formations of the mountains, the skies, the oceans. Beyond the vast earth lies more astounding surroundings. The universe, the galaxy as a whole, compels people to wonder and be mesmerized in such creations. It's a perfect formation, and it is impossible for unorganized matters or particles to have appeared from nowhere and to have created everything to this day so evenly well organized. What about History? Do you deny the existence of men named Moses and Jesus? Have they not even had skeptics witness astounding miracles? How could Moses have split the sea in half? How could Jesus have healed and brought people back from the dead? How could ordinary men have capabilities to do the inordinate? I don't assume there were any 3D tricks Jesus and Moses could have pulled of at that time. Was this not enough to prove to people that they were in fact sent by God? People denying the existence of God would mean they are denying the existence of these Prophets to begin with. People witnessed these historical events. So why not believe in these witnesses' accounts but believe everything else that occurred throughout History. If that's the case, that means we should just deny History as we know it. And even when you think about it logically, why would men like Abraham, David, Moses, John, Jesus live their lives making up ideas about the existence of one God, when some were imprisoned, tortured, and persecuted just for saying so. Why would these men go through so much so that in the end live their lives in burden? Not only that, but the chain of 'Prophethood' continues. It's not like it's just a single person making claims, but a chain of men with the same message, all following one after the other. And all for what? Why don't you ask yourself that. The proof of God's existence has, is, and will always be there. The problem is not with the evidence or miracles; the problem lies within the people themselves.

As I suspected, you know nothing of quantum theory. Buy Feynman's "Six Easy Pieces" to get started. Pay particular attention to the Two-Hole (or Slit) Experiment. Bohr said that anyone who understands QT does not understand it, while Feynman said, "It's ridiculous." Both Jews, by the way! Where do virtual particles comes from? The Dirac Sea. Once you have immersed yourself in the bizarre world of the quantum we might be able to embark upon a meaningful discussion, but until such, just go on believing the juvenile nonsense about seas parting and dead people returning to life and the sun seemingly standing still and strange horses and levitation and walking on water and all the other instances in which the laws of physics were put into temporary and extremely local abeyance. Grow up, you silly clot. Oh yes: investigate what "proof" means and what constitutes it. You tell me to consider the marvels of Nature (formation of mountains, by the way, is a terribly simple process, thoroughly accounted for by science), but this is the very task of science: to try to explain and describe such marvels. That's why the subject was formerly called Natural Philosophy, don't you know. To come back to Proof: tell me, oh mighty intellect, tell this ignorant atheist of the proff that your God exists. Do that, and I'll join the ranks of the religious (but not the Muslim variety - too rank) upon the instant.

Strange, you don't seem to know much about it yourself. The Dirac Sea? Some vacuum that HAS [negative] energy. The process begins with SOMETHING, not NOTHING. You could be CLUELESS in quantum physics and still have common sense. Scientists STILL continue trying to prove this theory, but they still have have NOT proved it, and they never will. Science is not the answer to everything. There are phenomenons that will just simply never be explained. Science cannot provide the answers to everything because there are too many questions left behind. Until Scientists can prove this theory, then your ideas or "beliefs" are false, and make no "scientific" sense. Strange you had nothing to say about my statements on History. Are you going to deny the existence of these men? (Which of course would mean you should deny history as a whole) What about the witnesses? Or were they hallucinating? Or was it some incredible magic "trick" pulled off thousands of years ago? These 'chain' of men must have been some "magicians". And without advanced technology to back them up too. Yeah Beejj, and somehow you make more "sense"? Observing you would be enough to know what a world without religion would look like. No conscience of guilt and no morals. So humans can control, lead, and force upon laws telling people what they can and cannot do, but there isn't a greater being telling mankind what they should and should not be doing? So a man can get away with lying, stealing, and murdering and not be punished for the actions unseen? Do we have no purpose? Just eat and sleep like a bunch of animals? And then die and decay and be left behind with our long gone actions? Beejj, do WHATEVER you like. Think HOWEVER you like. I guess we'll all find out in the end. Live your life without a purpose just as you have no purpose.
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“With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”
- Steven Weinberg

Xkon, before you write such drivel take the trouble to immerse yourself, if you are able, into the mathematics of the Dirac sea - that astonishing idea that led to the prediction or antimatter - later substantiated. Dirac's mind will forever be as inaccessible to you as understanding the Muslim mind is to me, but the great Wolfgand Pauli said of him, "GOD DOES NOT EXIST, AND PAUL DIRAC IS HIS PROPHET!" Stick that up your bum, my Muslim friend.

I envy your ability to see the future, xkon. Clearly, you have not begun reading Feynman's book yet, so there's little point in our mentioning quantum matters. Yes, I did refer to your historical figyres, albeit onbliquely. Load of eyewash. Your assertion that only religion is able to produce a caring, just society is as breathtaking as your assertion that God is proved. Since when does Islam produce a just society? Yes, I'll get on with my life, open-eyed, and in the meantime you can enjoy wearing your blindfold.

Xkon,
When was the last time someone used any Bible verses to justify anything that comes even close to the near 13000 jihad attacks muslims have carried out in just the last 8 years? I have yet to hear news of a Christian blowing himself up in a market while chanting "Jesus is King!", or cutting of someone's head on video while praising Jesus. And don't come at me with the retards who bomb abortion clinics, because we prosecute jail them when we catch them, unlike muslim countries who try to buy them off, a la Pakistan and the Taliban, or honor them, like Lebanon and Samir Kuntar, who got a hero's parade when he was released after imprisonment for crushing a 4 year old girl's skull and killing the entire family.

And I know full well that people in the US misuse the word racist, usually pulling that card out when they cannot win a debate over a topic that includes anyone not white. The simple definition of racism is the the belief that race determines one's particular traits and capacities and that those differences produce an inherent superiority of one race over another. Plain and simple. I do not pay attention to the liberal, dumbed down, open to interpretation meanings, especially not from the UN. Citing anything the useless UN says is a weak defense of your argument at best. The UN is nothing more than a toothless letter writing organization that has outlived its usefulness and is run by corrupt bureaucrats.

Regarding the teachings of Christ, I am fully aware of them. I do not hate muslims. I hate the evil inherent in islam. There is a HUGE difference. I have had muslim girlfriends, and they knew where I stood, and why. I managed to open their eyes and see the truth.

As for the evidence, I have seen numerous comments here on IAC, with verses translated, from the quran, the sunna and the hadith. You always refute them and tell us the translation is wrong, misinterpreted, or out of context, even when the translations come from Arabic speaking sources.

Kal El, it makes no difference if someone kills in the name of something or kills in the name of nothing! Taking the lives of innocent people is still MURDERING, regardless for who's sake. If it becomes a trend by a group to do something in a SPECIFIC way, you cannot question why different other groups don't act the same way. It's still a CRIME. Why non-Muslims enjoy to spin things around, I don't know why. But I do know that the list of America's war crimes done on other people is far more greater than the crimes being done on them. There are good and bad people everywhere. And when you insult a religion respected and followed by billions, you insult the people themselves. Do you think I care if someone insults me? I only care if ignorant people are disrespecting MY religion and MY Prophets. No other words matter to Muslims (or at least to a majority of them).

"I do not hate muslims. I hate the evil inherent in islam. There is a HUGE difference."

Oh believe me, I already know there's a HUGE difference. The difference is Islam is perfect and Muslims are not. And when you have so-called Muslims who do not abide by the teachings of Islam, they distort the image of not only Muslims as a whole, but Islam as well. ISLAM is PEACE (that's what the word 'Islam' MEANS) even if some Muslims are not.
Look at ALL the names of the different doctrines of beliefs. Judaism comes from 'Judah'. Christianity comes from 'Christ'. Buddhism comes from 'Buddha'. Marxism comes from 'Marx'. Why the word 'Islam' and not something derived from Mohammad? Because Islam is the religion of all. ALL the prophets are great, including Mohammad. And you insulting him just shows you have NO respect for the person that is not only honorable in the eyes of BILLIONS, but shows you no NOTHING about the man that changed the minds of disbelievers about the religion of Islam, simply because of his morals and ethics! Go educate yourself before you say something that you clearly don't understand.

"I have had muslim girlfriends, and they knew where I stood, and why. I managed to open their eyes and see the truth."

Muslim girlfriends? Do these girlfriends of yours know that Islam prohibits the mingling of a male and female outside of marriage? I'm actually not surprised how you managed to "open up their eyes". They were already lost anyways. I of course have no right to claim they are not Muslims (if they believe in the six pillars of faith), but they definitely are not good Muslims and DEFINITELY do not represent Islam.

"You always refute them and tell us the translation is wrong, misinterpreted, or out of context, even when the translations come from Arabic speaking sources."

If a verse in the Quran is translated wrong, then it doesn't exist. So of course I will refute that. I have the Quran Book (and not posted on some random website). And it would only make sense that someone who hates Islam will show you a verse that needs interpretation, but will misinterpret it to non-Muslims to misguide them. Why don't non-Muslims check their resources with Muslims if they want reliable information? Do you know the bunch of sites I've seen against Christianity? The amount of repulsive verses in the Bible? Am I going to go around hating Christians and claiming their religion is "evil"? You stating that you don't hate Muslims practically contradicts everything you've been saying against them on this site. Go think and do whatever you want, but there will always be other people doing the same to your beliefs.

I was going to reply to this ignoramus tom, but Beejj said everything I would have said :D

How is "Honor Killing" worse than the THOUSAND of murders we hear about every year in the US? How is it better (or less outrageous) for a woman to die at the hands of her enraged husband/boyfriend or ex than at the hands of a crazy uncle? Is the world turning a blind eye to this problem in the US? It's very easy to compile stories showing the dark side of ANY society, what's the point? humans have an infinite capacity for evil, and no society has a monopoly on evil people. For every atrocity you mention in the middle east I can show you 10 similar of worse atrocities in the US. There are good and bad people in Jordan same as here.

What a strange message, Tom. People have been killing each other for a myriad reasons ever since Cain invented murder, but the difference is that these Muslim maniacs engage in "honour killing" OF WOMEN as a result of their religious beliefs. They don't even require proof, for the merest suspicion is enough to set them off. Consider, too, the fact that they believe that such murders restore honour to a family! Murder brings honour. Can't you see the difference? Yes, men and women in non-Muslim countries have murdered their spouses as a result of marital indiscretions, but they did it out of pure rage and not because they believe the should do so because of the rantings of a 7th Century paedophile. And they did not do it for reasons of honour. NOW can you see the difference???? Good people in Jordan? Like all those women who went orgasmic with joy when Saddam sent Scud missiles into Israel during the Gulf War and who begged him to use chemical warheads and who in loyalty to their hero named their sons Saddam? Jordanians are Palestinians (check your history), but they shut out their Palestinian brethren. Yes, very nice people, the Jordanians.

Beej: "Muslim maniacs engage in "honour killing" OF WOMEN as a result of their religious beliefs."

Oh Really? Mind providing evidence based on the Quran then?
(By the way, it's a rhetorical question. Simply because you won't find it in the Quran. Enough of embarrassing yourself Beejj) And some "scientist" you sure turned out to be.

Xkon, stuff your Koran, open as it is to a spectrum of interpretations. The evidence is provided by the murdered women's bodies. "By their deeds shalt thou know them."

Liberals are among those sick minded individuals, believing she deserved it or some out landish idea that it is honorable to kill their own sister, brother, mother, child, what ever to get their evil selfish way. You can't find an honorable one in the bunch, only pure D insanity. The demons that live in those devils are Legion (many) and the world lets this continue as though it is the norm. Any thing goes now-a-days, what a shame.

Honour killings, what a wonderful cultural characteristic.
Now being exported to all civilised countries.
No doubt "freedom to murder with impunity"will be the next request from our muslim immigrants.
A tough one, even for the liberal brain dead to swallow.
However one should never underestimate the"mental gymnastics"which our cultural relativistic chums can dream up.