Pakistan: Girls, aged 5 and 8 given up for marriage to 23 and 15 year old males

by Kal El on February 10, 2009 · View Comments

Do you like this story?

No child abuse or human rights abuses here. Nothing to see, move along, infidel!

2 girls fall prey to ‘vani’ in Abbottabad

Saturday, February 07, 2009
by Usman Manzoor

ISLAMABAD: A case of ‘vani’ has been discovered in a village of Abbottabad district, where two minor girls, whose uncle had married a girl of his choice, have been given in marriage to men of the family of that girl.

Five-year-old Haleema Bibi and eight-year-old Ayesha have been given in marriage to 23-year-old Arshad and 15-year-old Hamayun of the opponent family by a jirga of elders of the area because uncle of the minor girls had contracted court marriage with a girl of opponent family some six months back.

Uncle of the victim girls, Muhammad Sabir, while talking to The News said that six months ago one Sajjad and Abida of Biran, a village in Abbottabad tehsil, had solemnised court marriage and had settled in Karachi since then. He said a jirga of elders of the village arranged a sitting on January 19 and ordered to give two nieces of Sajjad in marriage to the two men of Abida’s family.

“There were around 100 people in the jirga while the father of the minor girls, Muhammad Yousaf, was alone and the two girls were forcibly married to the men of the rival family,” said Sabir.

He said that Khateeb-e-Azam of Abbottabad Maulana Abdul Wajid took the matter seriously and summoned the cleric who had administered the Nikah of the minor girls on the orders of the jirga.

When this correspondent contacted Maulana Abdul Wajid, he said that the case could not be termed as ‘vani’ because the girls were not sent with the men to whom they were married. He said though the minor girls were forcibly married by a jirga, he himself had contacted the people at the district level and the decision of the jirga would be reversed today (Saturday). He said the other family had agreed to submit the written divorces.

The Maulana said the issue must not be highlighted in media at national level as the decision was going to be reversed within a week. To a question, he said the jirga reached the unfortunate decision just to address the grievances of Abida’s family.

Muhammad Farooq, one of the participants of the jirga, confessed that such an incident had occurred but later it was settled between the two families. He said the two girls were given in Nikah by the jirga to the family of a girl who married the boy of her choice against the wishes of her family. He said that the girls belong to the family of Sajjad who had married the girl in court some six months ago. “Everything was done according to the customs and traditions of the village and later the decision was reversed when the aggrieved family went to the home of Muhammad Yousaf, father of the minor girls,” Farooq said while defending the decision of the jirga. “The matter has been settled and there is nothing in it now,” he added.

Meanwhile, Progressive Women Association President Shahnaz Bukhari strongly condemned the incident and demanded of the government to initiate inquiry against the jirga members. In a telephonic chat with The News, she claimed the Khateeb-e-Azam of Abbottabad, while talking to her, admitted the happening.

Right, there is nothing in it now. It’s not like they tried to peddle off CHILDREN into forced marriage or anything…

Related posts:

  1. Pakistan – Judge refuses to return kidnapped girls forced into marriage
  2. Muslim cleric OK's sex with 9 year old girls
  3. Man says will wait to consummate marriage with 10-year-old Hail girl
  4. Police arrest mullah for marrying off 7 year old girl
  5. Christian girl, kidnapped and converted by Muslims, returned to family
  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Tonto2 Tonto2

    I think I've figured it out. The muz boys are so intimidated and frightened by mature females that they can't have relations with females that may psychologically overpower them….like be human. It is a known fact that women really don't respect immature men and what else has islam to offer……punks, that's all. Now watch all the muz trolls jump on that with threats and imprecations. Still a bunch of punks!

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/alexb102072 alexb102072

    This is exactly what Mormon Fundamentalist groups like the FLDS would like to see happen if they ever took over the United States.

  • Beej

    Correct, Tonto. Interesting, is it not, that when such indefensible deeds occur, not a single Muslim reader of this site ever writes in defence. The arseholes KNOW it's evil, yet they continue to follow Islam. Come on, you Islamic ratbags, defend this.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Kal_El Kal_El

    Agreed, which is why we put those fundie scumbags in dark holes where they are allowed no more than one hour of sunlight per day.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/jennyjen jennyjen

    More things that make you go eww from the Muslims

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/xkon xkon

    Out of all the hate sites I have ever been on, this is by far the most amusing one. A bunch of articles tracking every Muslim, in hope of finding anything to make them look notorious. Well, now that we're all free to talk, I'm only assuming no one here is Christian (as real Christians are always preaching that Jesus is peace) –not that anyone here is following that example, so I'm assuming atheists? It'd be just as easy to make a useless site (such as this one) and post every single little detail about what Christians do around the world. But now as we're on the subject of attacking Muslims (especially on the topic of sex and marriage—seems to be everybody's favorite) Here's an article I found to be very interesting. A CHRISTIAN pastor went to jail for having sex with his 10 year old "wife". http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28872042
    See, now everybody can have fun. You find the big scoop on Muslims, and I find you the big scoop on everybody else. That way, you'll come to a realization you people have nothing else better to do with your lives.

  • domass

    Every religion and every culture has its bad guys. The difference is that Muslims reward the bad guys and punish the victims. xkon, keep justifying Muslims behavior.

  • xkon

    ….Muslims "rewarding" the bad guys…nope, not that I'm aware of. That's of course unless you're talking about the Muslims who are committing these crimes to begin with. Other than that, I suggest you check your resources.

  • Beej

    No-one here is claiming that only Muslims are capable of foul deeds, or that Christianity does not carry a catalogue of guilt, but Islam stands apart from all other religions due largely to the fact that is has never been allowed a Reformation, so its adherents wallow in the mire of 7th Century enlightenment, and to its determination to overwhelm and supplant all other religions: hence "infidels". Islam was spread at the edge of the sword: convert or die; and its current leaders are equally hell-bent on eventual domination. No other religion behaves in this fashion or looks upon followers of other religions as inferior.
    You may well find Christian pastors who abuse 10 year-old girls, but no Christian Church CONDONES and ENCOURAGES such loathsome behaviour, unlike Islam, which DOES. I believe I am correct in saying that the Tamils "invented" the suicide bomber, but Islam has taken to the concept like the proverbial duck to water,even using children and the intellectually handicapped to serve its ends. I know of no instance of Christian Churches encouraging such deeds. As far as I am aware, only Islam preaches heavenly rewards for death incurred in the slaughter of "infidels". And what rewards! Eternal sexual intercourse with virgins! Does this not tell you something about the state of the male Muslim mind? Does it not say something about their attitude to women? Of course it does, and it points to the "logic" behind their treatment of earthly womanhood: the ease with which a Muslim man can divorce; the dress code forced by "tradition" upon women; the official recognition that a woman is inferior to a man (straight out of the Koran – no interpretation here); that a wife, sexually taken by her husband against her will, is not victim of rape; and so on and on. Find corresponding damning evidence to use against modern Christian Churches.
    You see, xkon, you have entirely missed the point. This site is not about individuals as such, but it highlights individuals' behaviour when that behaviour is born of religious doctrine: a very different thing. People of all religious hues will always commit shameful acts, but much of Islamic teaching is geared to behaviour that most of us consider to be repellent and to thinking that poses a real threat to what most of us deem to be civilisation – a civilisation Islam is determined to overthrow. You say you can "find us a big scoop on everybody else." Not very hard to do, of course, but while you are about it, indicate how each hideous case is the result of official Christian thought. Suddenly your scoop dwindles to nothingness.
    True, there are occasions when those of us who contribute to this site become vitriolic, venting our spleens upon reading of some outrage or other, and this is less than ideal, but emotions can sometimes override cold reason. (I recommend that you read the honeyed words of "belladonnaja", #1 of the Top 10 Commentators.) If Islam comes into the 21st Century, this site will immediately cease to exist, but until such time it will strive to alert people to the cancer that dwells in our midst.

  • xkon

    It's good you brought all this up. For starters, every religion that's ever been allowed a "reformation" has no doubt altered the teachings of the religion. You don't just decide to add a few things here and there according to your logic. Your concepts and ideologies do NOT apply to everyone. The problem is not how you get your facts, but how you don't seem to put logic into it. Islam spread by the sword? Even if you try putting some thought into it, than all the non-Muslims who had been living amongst the Muslims during Mohammad's time would have all been killed. There are numerous records of Muslims and non-Muslims during that time interacting with one another. Have you only been focusing on the "chosen" verses of the Quran for you to read on this site, or have you ever taken time to read the other verses too? The ones that say Muslims should not dispute with the Jews and Christians unless if inflicted injury done upon them.

    "And do not dispute with the People of the Book [Jews and Christians], except with means better (than mere disputation), unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong (and injury); but say, 'We believe in the Revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; our God and your God is One; and it is to Him we submit (in Islam)." [29:46]–Quran

    But hey, if you claim I'm just picking up these random verses to prove something, maybe you'd like to do a little reading on the Torah and Bible as everyone seems to be 'so very focused on the Quran' but have neglected their own teachings (which as you mentioned, has been 'reformed'). If you're too lazy to do the reading, I'd be a pleasure to just show them to you. Maybe a few verses here and there will show you how the shock of the Jews and Christians who encountered these verses that turned them to Atheists, or better yet, that have led them to Islam.

    What is it about the teachings of Islam does everybody not get through their heads? In Islam, there is NO compulsion in religion. No Muslim is allowed to force a non-Muslim to convert ( even if a Muslim does so, that Muslim is not following the teachings of Islam). I don't know where people get these ideas that Muslims encourage violence. I think these people have suffered from severe Islamophobia or something. If you've got a group of people who are condoning violence, then obviously people within that group who commit crimes will be praised (but only within that group and not of the whole group of their people). This is in regards of all people, of all religion, race, etc. Another thing, suicide bombing (regardless of the "Einstein" who created the thought of it), is PROHIBITED in ISLAM. I really don't understand how people can be ignorant to the point that even when Muslims are saying it is wrong, that people still continue to say, "Muslims do so and so…" (and with no reference according to the Quran either).
    Think about this one and tell me, where are the countries that these suicide bombings are normally taking place. Egypt…? No. Jordan…? No. Saudi Arabia…? No. Iraq? Yes. Afghanistan? Yes. Hmmm…the countries that seems to be in occupation by the U.S.. So, the countries that are occupied by the U.S., having "suicide bombers", killing the bystanders that are MUSLIMS. It's like people these days can't seem to put two and two together. You claim Muslims are killing non-Muslims as you claim it is in the religion of Islam (even though not ONE reference in the Quran), but Muslims killing MUSLIMS? (I suppose that's in the Quran too?) How about you look at the sufferings of other people for once. Do you realize the crimes done by America and the West. Don't you realize that America has given it's citizens a bad name because of it's lies, wars, and insidious acts against people? America is the OPPRESSOR and people not of their own nation are being OPPRESSED. Why do you THINK so many crimes by Muslims are intended towards America? You have NO idea (not the slightest) how people have suffered due to the actions of America. If not only ordinary Muslims are against America and Israel, but also CHRISTIAN and JEWS, than you KNOW that the culprit falls in the hands of these corrupt governments. I can't believe how people can fall so blindly to the media. Have you not looked at this site? It's full of articles of the most useless absurd
    things just to get the latest scoop on Islam and Muslims. If this is how it's going to continue to be, than let it continue. It's not going to change the fact that Islam IS the fastest growing religion in the world and it wouldn't be if it were truly a violent religion. Any person who understands could take this challenge and prove you wrong. It just depends if you want to take any of the words being said into consideration.

  • Beej

    Xkon, I suggest you read my message again, for most of the matters I raised you have studiously ignored. I'm not surprised, though …..
    Your second paragraph is so cosy and feel-good. It seems to suggest that Muslims are supposed to respect Jews and Christians, although the phrase "with means better (than mere disputation)" opens a nasty can of worms. Hmm. It would seem that the wizened weasel presently in control of Iran has placed his own interpretation upon "with means better", given his denial of Israel's right to exist. And, of course, as one travels through Saudi Arabia one is awestruck by all the synagogues and churches in that enlightened land, isn't one? To my certain knowledge I have never "inflicted injury" upon a Muslim – indeed, I have taught Muslim boys and girls to the best of my ability to assist their progress in the secular world – but I am barred from entering certain Muslim states if my passport shows I have visited Israel. This seems to suggest a certain degree of intolerance …………. Give me an example of just ONE non-Islamic state that would forbid me entry if I had spent time in a Muslim country.
    You state that suicide is forbidden by your religion, so please tell us why suicide bombing is such a popular activity amongst your ilk and why the poor fools who do it are told by their religious leaders that the rewards of Paradise await them.
    You claim that suicide bombing occurs only in countries occupied by America. I did not realise that Britain (London) was an occupied country …………
    Yes, Islam is a fast-growing religion, gaining ground in non-Islamic countries. Why? Because such countries are tolerant of a wide range of religions, unlike Islamic states which persecute followers of religions other than Islam. Proud of this, are you? (Of course, a factor in Islam's growth is the fact that Muslims breed like rabbits.)
    I have attempted to respond to the points you raised rather than follow your lead and throw in red herrings to evade the ticklish questions. Again: read my original post and face my questions squarely.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/xkon xkon

    Give me an example of just ONE non-Islamic state that would forbid me entry if I had spent time in a Muslim country. "
    Well, I don't know about YOU, but Muslims from the Middle East that I personally know whom themselves have not made a stop to Pakistan (but merely their grandfathers), have NOT been allowed entry into the United Stated whatsoever.
    "And, of course, as one travels through Saudi Arabia one is awestruck by all the synagogues and churches in that enlightened land, isn't one?"
    I as an individual believe that if there were a minority of Christians or Jews living in a Muslim country, that they should be too taken into consideration, and have Churches and Synagogues constructed for them. Have you never considered Egypt, Jordon, Iraq, Iran? Do they not have the majority of the population being Muslims and the minority Christians? Aren't there churches? You have failed to mention those. As for Saudi Arabia, practically a 100% Muslim population, so why would other religious sites take place?
    "You state that suicide is forbidden …..told by their religious leaders that the rewards of Paradise await them. You claim….occupied by America. I did not realise that Britain was an occupied country"
    For the first and last time, KILLING (be it a suicide bombing or a shooting spree) is AGAINST the teachings of Islam. Whoever chooses to do so (say a Muslim) is NOT following the teachings of Islam and does NOT represent the actions of a whole group. How is that so difficult for people to get it through? But now as we're on the topic regarding the teachings of Islam. Why don't you give me ONE verse in the Quran that says Muslims should kill Christians and Jews. (And just a recommendation, don't pick out the verses that are in reference of killing during War, as that would only make you look ignorant and proves you fail to understand the concept of self defense.
    You mention one of my favorite things that all non-Muslims like to attack Muslims on. That being suicide attacks and the so-called "religious" leaders praising it. To begin with, whether a person wants to commit a crime by suicide bombings, or go on a shooting spree and then kills themselves in the end, it makes absolutely NO difference. A crime is still a crime, and the things being done are still being done, just using different tactics. Are there no lunatics in America, or elsewhere around the world shooting random people and then taking their own lives in the end? But THAT doesn't get the same attention as opposed to when a Muslim straps a bomb, killing people and himself. Then THAT would be the only real BIG deal. Crimes are committed WORLDWIDE, thousands taking place each day. I wonder which regions of this vast earth is going to be presented to the people? Doesn't take a genius to figure that out. It doesn't make the actions of any person (regardless of ethnicity, religion) more right. Fact is, there are terrorists in EVERY religious group. And as for the "religious" leaders that encourage it, well they ain't no Messengers that's for sure. People who are regarded as religious in Islam are people who follow the teachings of Islam, if they don't follow the teachings then they are not considered religious. How is that so complicated? But you obviously have not taken my previous post into consideration. All the countries that have been and are in control by America are the countries that are most prominent in attacks. What, do you think that people of their own country are just going to sit there and watch the U.S. Army takeover and kill their loved ones? Of course Muslims are going to fight back, and are going to fight back hard, sometimes with illogical thinking due to the fact they have been OPPRESSED. But you wouldn't know, because as long as you're the oppressor and than that seems to be okay.
    "Of course, a factor in Islam's growth is the fact that Muslims breed like rabbits."
    And another thing, I suggest you do a little research instead of using that cliché everyone keeps using. It gets old.
    FACT: Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. The growth rate of Islam, according to the U.S. Center for World Mission, at 2.9% is higher than the 2.6% growth rate of the world's population. So as much as you and everyone don't want to believe that Muslims are increasing BIG TIME, the fact IS, people worldwide have, are, and still continue to come learn about Islam through ways other than these pathetic sites. This proves that the birth rate is not the only factor of Islam growing, but the fact that people are continually embracing Islam everyday. And quite frankly, it doesn't even matter for those uneducated people who say otherwise.

  • http://www.intensedebate.com/people/xkon xkon

    "Give me an example of just ONE non-Islamic state that would forbid me entry if I had spent time in a Muslim country. "
    Well, I don't know about YOU, but Muslims from the Middle East that I personally know whom themselves have not made a stop to Pakistan (but merely their grandfathers), have NOT been allowed entry into the United Stated whatsoever.
    "And, of course, as one travels through Saudi Arabia one is awestruck by all the synagogues and churches in that enlightened land, isn't one?"
    I as an individual believe that if there were a minority of Christians or Jews living in a Muslim country, that they should be too taken into consideration, and have Churches and Synagogues constructed for them. Have you never considered Egypt, Jordon, Iraq, Iran? Do they not have the majority of the population being Muslims and the minority Christians? Aren't there churches? You have failed to mention those. As for Saudi Arabia, practically a 100% Muslim population, so why would other religious sites take place?
    "You state that suicide is forbidden …..told by their religious leaders that the rewards of Paradise await them. You claim….occupied by America. I did not realise that Britain was an occupied country"
    For the first and last time, KILLING (be it a suicide bombing or a shooting spree) is AGAINST the teachings of Islam. Whoever chooses to do so (say a Muslim) is NOT following the teachings of Islam and does NOT represent the actions of a whole group. How is that so difficult for people to get it through? But now as we're on the topic regarding the teachings of Islam. Why don't you give me ONE verse in the Quran that says Muslims should kill Christians and Jews. (And just a recommendation, don't pick out the verses that are in reference of killing during War, as that would only make you look ignorant and proves you fail to understand the concept of self defense.
    You mention one of my favorite things that all non-Muslims like to attack Muslims on. That being suicide attacks and the so-called "religious" leaders praising it. To begin with, whether a person wants to commit a crime by suicide bombings, or go on a shooting spree and then kills themselves in the end, it makes absolutely NO difference. A crime is still a crime, and the things being done are still being done, just using different tactics. Are there no lunatics in America, or elsewhere around the world shooting random people and then taking their own lives in the end? But THAT doesn't get the same attention as opposed to when a Muslim straps a bomb, killing people and himself. Then THAT would be the only real BIG deal. Crimes are committed WORLDWIDE, thousands taking place each day. I wonder which regions of this vast earth is going to be presented to the people? Doesn't take a genius to figure that out. It doesn't make the actions of any person (regardless of ethnicity, religion) more right. Fact is, there are terrorists in EVERY religious group. And as for the "religious" leaders that encourage it, well they ain't no Messengers that's for sure. People who are regarded as religious in Islam are people who follow the teachings of Islam, if they don't follow the teachings then they are not considered religious. How is that so complicated? But you obviously have not taken my previous post into consideration. All the countries that have been and are in control by America are the countries that are most prominent in attacks. What, do you think that people of their own country are just going to sit there and watch the U.S. Army takeover and kill their loved ones? Of course Muslims are going to fight back, and are going to fight back hard, sometimes with illogical thinking due to the fact they have been OPPRESSED. But you wouldn't know, because as long as you're the oppressor and than that seems to be okay.
    "Of course, a factor in Islam's growth is the fact that Muslims breed like rabbits."
    And another thing, I suggest you do a little research instead of using that cliché everyone keeps using. It gets old.
    FACT: Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. The growth rate of Islam, according to the U.S. Center for World Mission, at 2.9% is higher than the 2.6% growth rate of the world's population. So as much as you and everyone don't want to believe that Muslims are increasing BIG TIME, the fact IS, people worldwide have, are, and still continue to come learn about Islam through ways other than these pathetic sites. This proves that the birth rate is not the only factor of Islam growing, but the fact that people are continually embracing Islam everyday. And quite frankly, it doesn't even matter for those uneducated people who say otherwise.

  • http://www.intensedebate.com/people/xkon xkon

    "Give me an example of just ONE non-Islamic state that would forbid me entry if I had spent time in a Muslim country. "
    Well, I don't know about YOU, but Muslims from the Middle East that I've personally known whom themselves have not made a stop to Pakistan (but merely their grandfathers), have NOT been allowed entry into the United Stated whatsoever.
    "And, of course, as one travels through Saudi Arabia one is awestruck by all the synagogues and churches in that enlightened land, isn't one?"
    I as an individual believe that if there were a minority of Christians or Jews living in a Muslim country, that they should be too taken into consideration, and have Churches and Synagogues constructed for them. Have you never considered Egypt, Jordon, Iraq, Iran? Do they not have the majority of the population being Muslims and the minority Christians? Aren't there churches? You have failed to mention those. As for Saudi Arabia, practically a 100% Muslim population, so why would other religious sites take place?
    "You state that suicide is forbidden …..told by their religious leaders that the rewards of Paradise await them. You claim….occupied by America. I did not realise that Britain was an occupied country"
    For the first and last time, KILLING (be it a suicide bombing or a shooting spree) is AGAINST the teachings of Islam. Whoever chooses to do so (say a Muslim) is NOT following the teachings of Islam and does NOT represent the actions of a whole group. How is that so difficult for people to get it through? But now as we're on the topic regarding the teachings of Islam. Why don't you give me ONE verse in the Quran that says Muslims should kill Christians and Jews. (And just a recommendation, don't pick out the verses that are in reference of killing during War, as that would only make you look ignorant and proves you fail to understand the concept of self defense.
    You mention one of my favorite things that all non-Muslims like to attack Muslims on. That being suicide attacks and the so-called "religious" leaders praising it. To begin with, whether a person wants to commit a crime by suicide bombings, or go on a shooting spree and then kills themselves in the end, it makes absolutely NO difference. A crime is still a crime, and the things being done are still being done, just using different tactics. Are there no lunatics in America, or elsewhere around the world shooting random people and then taking their own lives in the end? But THAT doesn't get the same attention as opposed to when a Muslim straps a bomb, killing people and himself. Then THAT would be the only real BIG deal. Crimes are committed WORLDWIDE, thousands taking place each day. I wonder which regions of this vast earth is going to be presented to the people? Doesn't take a genius to figure that out. It doesn't make the actions of any person (regardless of ethnicity, religion) more right. Fact is, there are terrorists in EVERY religious group. And as for the "religious" leaders that encourage it, well they ain't no Messengers that's for sure. People who are regarded as religious in Islam are people who follow the teachings of Islam, if they don't follow the teachings then they are not considered religious. How is that so complicated? But you obviously have not taken my previous post into consideration. All the countries that have been and are in control by America are the countries that are most prominent in attacks. What, do you think that people of their own country are just going to sit there and watch the U.S. Army takeover and kill their loved ones? Of course Muslims are going to fight back, and are going to fight back hard, sometimes with illogical thinking due to the fact they have been OPPRESSED. But you wouldn't know, because as long as you're the oppressor and than that seems to be okay.
    "Of course, a factor in Islam's growth is the fact that Muslims breed like rabbits."
    And another thing, I suggest you do a little research instead of using that cliché everyone keeps using. It gets old.
    FACT: Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. The growth rate of Islam, according to the U.S. Center for World Mission, at 2.9% is higher than the 2.6% growth rate of the world's population. So as much as you and everyone don't want to believe that Muslims are increasing BIG TIME, the fact IS, people worldwide have, are, and still continue to come learn about Islam through ways other than these pathetic sites. This proves that the birth rate is not the only factor of Islam growing, but the fact that people are continually embracing Islam everyday. And quite frankly, it doesn't even matter for those uneducated people who say otherwise.

  • http://www.intensedebate.com/people/xkon xkon

    "Give me an example of just ONE non-Islamic state that would forbid me entry if I had spent time in a Muslim country. "
    Well, I don't know about YOU, but Muslims from the Middle East that I've personally known whom themselves have not made a stop to Pakistan (but merely their grandfathers), have NOT been allowed entry into the United Stated whatsoever.
    "And, of course, as one travels through Saudi Arabia one is awestruck by all the synagogues and churches in that enlightened land, isn't one?"
    I as an individual believe that if there were a minority of Christians or Jews living in a Muslim country, that they should be too taken into consideration, and have Churches and Synagogues constructed for them. Have you never considered Egypt, Jordon, Iraq, Iran? Do they not have the majority of the population being Muslims and the minority Christians? Aren't there churches? You have failed to mention those. As for Saudi Arabia, practically a 100% Muslim population, so why would other religious sites take place?
    "You state that suicide is forbidden …..told by their religious leaders that the rewards of Paradise await them. You claim….occupied by America. I did not realise that Britain was an occupied country"
    For the first and last time, KILLING (be it a suicide bombing or a shooting spree) is AGAINST the teachings of Islam. Whoever chooses to do so (say a Muslim) is NOT following the teachings of Islam and does NOT represent the actions of a whole group. How is that so difficult for people to get it through? But now as we're on the topic regarding the teachings of Islam. Why don't you give me ONE verse in the Quran that says Muslims should kill Christians and Jews. (And just a recommendation, don't pick out the verses that are in reference of killing during War, as that would only make you look ignorant and proves that you fail to understand the concept of self defense.)
    You mention one of my favorite things that all non-Muslims like to attack Muslims on. That being suicide attacks and the so-called "religious" leaders praising it. To begin with, whether a person wants to commit a crime by suicide bombings, or go on a shooting spree and then kills themselves in the end, it makes absolutely NO difference. A crime is still a crime, and the things being done are still being done, just using different tactics. Are there no lunatics in America, or elsewhere around the world shooting random people and then taking their own lives in the end? But THAT doesn't get the same attention as opposed to when a Muslim straps a bomb, killing people and himself. Then THAT would be the only real BIG deal. Crimes are committed WORLDWIDE, thousands taking place each day. I wonder which regions of this vast earth is going to be presented to the people? Doesn't take a genius to figure that out. It doesn't make the actions of any person (regardless of ethnicity, religion) more right. Fact is, there are terrorists in EVERY religious group. And as for the "religious" leaders that encourage it, well they ain't no Messengers that's for sure. People who are regarded as religious in Islam are people who follow the teachings of Islam, if they don't follow the teachings then they are not considered religious. How is that so complicated? But you obviously have not taken my previous post into consideration. All the countries that have been and are in control by America are the countries that are most prominent in attacks. What, do you think that people of their own country are just going to sit there and watch the U.S. Army takeover and kill their loved ones? Of course Muslims are going to fight back, and are going to fight back hard, sometimes with illogical thinking due to the fact they have been OPPRESSED. But you wouldn't know, because as long as you're the oppressor and than that seems to be okay.
    "Of course, a factor in Islam's growth is the fact that Muslims breed like rabbits."
    And another thing, I suggest you do a little research instead of using that cliché everyone keeps using. It gets old.
    FACT: Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. The growth rate of Islam, according to the U.S. Center for World Mission, at 2.9% is higher than the 2.6% growth rate of the world's population. So as much as you and everyone don't want to believe that Muslims are increasing BIG TIME, the fact IS, people worldwide have, are, and still continue to come learn about Islam through ways other than these pathetic sites. This proves that the birth rate is not the only factor of Islam growing, but the fact that people are continually embracing Islam everyday. And quite frankly, it doesn't even matter for those uneducated people who say otherwise.

  • http://www.intensedebate.com/people/xkon xkon

    "Give me an example of just ONE non-Islamic state that would forbid me entry if I had spent time in a Muslim country. "
    Well, I don't know about YOU, but Muslims from the Middle East that I've personally known whom themselves have not made a stop to Pakistan (but merely their grandfathers), have NOT been allowed entry into the United Stated whatsoever.
    "And, of course, as one travels through Saudi Arabia one is awestruck by all the synagogues and churches in that enlightened land, isn't one?"
    I as an individual believe that if there were a minority of Christians or Jews living in a Muslim country, that they should be too taken into consideration, and have Churches and Synagogues constructed for them. Have you never considered Egypt, Jordon, Iraq, Iran? Do they not have the majority of the population being Muslims and the minority Christians? Aren't there churches? You have failed to mention those. As for Saudi Arabia, practically a 100% Muslim population, so why would other religious sites take place?
    "You state that suicide is forbidden …..told by their religious leaders that the rewards of Paradise await them. You claim….occupied by America. I did not realise that Britain was an occupied country"
    For the first and last time, KILLING (be it a suicide bombing or a shooting spree) is AGAINST the teachings of Islam. Whoever chooses to do so (say a Muslim) is NOT following the teachings of Islam and does NOT represent the actions of a whole group. How is that so difficult for people to get it through? But now as we're on the topic regarding the teachings of Islam. Why don't you give me ONE verse in the Quran that says Muslims should kill Christians and Jews. (And just a recommendation, don't pick out the verses that are in reference of killing during War, as that would only make you look ignorant and proves that you fail to understand the concept of self defense.)
    You mention one of my favorite things that all non-Muslims like to attack Muslims on. That being suicide attacks and the so-called "religious" leaders praising it. To begin with, whether a person wants to commit a crime by suicide bombings, or go on a shooting spree and then kills themselves in the end, it makes absolutely NO difference. A crime is still a crime, and the things being done are still being done, just using different tactics. Are there no lunatics in America, or elsewhere around the world shooting random people and then taking their own lives in the end? But THAT doesn't get the same attention as opposed to when a Muslim straps a bomb, killing people and himself. Then THAT would be the only real BIG deal. Crimes are committed WORLDWIDE, thousands taking place each day. I wonder which regions of this vast earth is going to be presented to the people? Doesn't take a genius to figure that out. It doesn't make the actions of any person (regardless of ethnicity, religion) more right. Fact is, there are terrorists in EVERY religious group. And as for the "religious" leaders that encourage it, well they ain't no Messengers of God that's for sure. People who are regarded as religious in Islam are people who follow the teachings of Islam, and if they don't follow the teachings then they are not considered religious. How is that so complicated? But you obviously have not taken my previous post into consideration. All the countries that have been and are in control by America are the countries that are most prominent in attacks. What, do you think that people of their own country are just going to sit there and watch the U.S. Army takeover and kill their loved ones? Of course Muslims are going to fight back, and are going to fight back hard, sometimes with illogical thinking due to the fact they have been OPPRESSED. But you wouldn't know, because as long as you're the oppressor and than that seems to be okay.
    "Of course, a factor in Islam's growth is the fact that Muslims breed like rabbits."
    And another thing, I suggest you do a little research instead of using that cliché everyone keeps using. It gets old.
    FACT: Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. The growth rate of Islam, according to the U.S. Center for World Mission, at 2.9% is higher than the 2.6% growth rate of the world's population. So as much as you and everyone don't want to believe that Muslims are increasing BIG TIME, the fact IS, people worldwide have, are, and still continue to come learn about Islam through ways other than these pathetic sites. This proves that the birth rate is not the only factor of Islam growing, but the fact that people are continually embracing Islam everyday. And quite frankly, it doesn't even matter for those uneducated people who say otherwise.

  • http://www.intensedebate.com/people/xkon xkon

    "Give me an example of just ONE non-Islamic state that would forbid me entry if I had spent time in a Muslim country. "
    Well, I don't know about YOU, but Muslims from the Middle East that I've personally known whom themselves have not made a stop to Pakistan (but merely their grandfathers), have NOT been allowed entry into the United Stated whatsoever.
    "And, of course, as one travels through Saudi Arabia one is awestruck by all the synagogues and churches in that enlightened land, isn't one?"
    I as an individual believe that if there were a minority of Christians or Jews living in a Muslim country, that they should be too taken into consideration, and have Churches and Synagogues constructed for them. Have you never considered Egypt, Jordon, Iraq, Iran? Do they not have the majority of the population being Muslims and the minority Christians? Aren't there churches? You have failed to mention those. As for Saudi Arabia, practically a 100% Muslim population, so why would other religious sites take place?
    "You state that suicide is forbidden …..told by their religious leaders that the rewards of Paradise await them. You claim….occupied by America. I did not realise that Britain was an occupied country"
    For the first and last time, KILLING (be it a suicide bombing or a shooting spree) is AGAINST the teachings of Islam. Whoever chooses to do so (say a Muslim) is NOT following the teachings of Islam and does NOT represent the actions of a whole group. How is that so difficult for people to get it through? But now as we're on the topic regarding the teachings of Islam. Why don't you give me ONE verse in the Quran that says Muslims should kill Christians and Jews. (And just a recommendation, don't pick out the verses that are in reference of killing during War, as that would only make you look ignorant and proves that you fail to understand the concept of self defense.)
    You mention one of my favorite things that all non-Muslims like to attack Muslims on. That being suicide attacks and the so-called "religious" leaders praising it. To begin with, whether a person wants to commit a crime by suicide bombings, or go on a shooting spree and then kills themselves in the end, it makes absolutely NO difference. A crime is still a crime, and the things being done are still being done, just using different tactics. Are there no lunatics in America, or elsewhere around the world shooting random people and then taking their own lives in the end? But THAT doesn't get the same attention as opposed to when a Muslim straps a bomb, killing people and himself. Then THAT would be the only real BIG deal. Crimes are committed WORLDWIDE, thousands taking place each day. I wonder which regions of this vast earth is going to be presented to the people? Doesn't take a genius to figure that out. It doesn't make the actions of any person (regardless of ethnicity, religion) more right. Fact is, there are terrorists in EVERY religious group. And as for the "religious" leaders that encourage it, well they ain't no Messengers of God that's for sure. People who are regarded as religious in Islam are people who follow the teachings of Islam, and if they don't follow the teachings then they are not considered religious. How is that so complicated? But you obviously have not taken my previous post into consideration. All the countries that have been and are in control by America are the countries that are most prominent in attacks. What? Do you think that people of their own country are just going to sit there and watch the U.S. Army takeover and kill their loved ones? Of course Muslims are going to fight back, and are going to fight back hard, sometimes with illogical thinking due to the fact they have been OPPRESSED. But you wouldn't know, because as long as you're the oppressor and than that seems to be okay.
    "Of course, a factor in Islam's growth is the fact that Muslims breed like rabbits."
    And another thing, I suggest you do a little research instead of using that cliché everyone keeps using. It gets old.
    FACT: Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. The growth rate of Islam, according to the U.S. Center for World Mission, at 2.9% is higher than the 2.6% growth rate of the world's population. So as much as you and everyone don't want to believe that Muslims are increasing BIG TIME, the fact IS, people worldwide have, are, and still continue to come learn about Islam through ways other than these pathetic sites. This proves that the birth rate is not the only factor of Islam growing, but the fact that people are continually embracing Islam everyday. And quite frankly, it doesn't even matter for those uneducated people who say otherwise.

  • http://www.intensedebate.com/people/xkon xkon

    "Give me an example of just ONE non-Islamic state that would forbid me entry if I had spent time in a Muslim country. "
    Well, I don't know about YOU, but Muslims from the Middle East that I've personally known whom themselves have not made a stop to Pakistan (but merely their grandfathers), have NOT been allowed entry into the United Stated whatsoever.
    "And, of course, as one travels through Saudi Arabia one is awestruck by all the synagogues and churches in that enlightened land, isn't one?"
    I as an individual believe that if there were a minority of Christians or Jews living in a Muslim country, that they should be too taken into consideration, and have Churches and Synagogues constructed for them. Have you never considered Egypt, Jordon, Iraq, Iran? Do they not have the majority of the population being Muslims and the minority Christians? Aren't there churches? You have failed to mention those. As for Saudi Arabia, practically a 100% Muslim population, so why would other religious sites take place?
    "You state that suicide is forbidden …..told by their religious leaders that the rewards of Paradise await them. You claim….occupied by America. I did not realise that Britain was an occupied country"
    For the first and last time, KILLING (be it a suicide bombing or a shooting spree) is AGAINST the teachings of Islam. Whoever chooses to do so (say a Muslim) is NOT following the teachings of Islam and does NOT represent the actions of a whole group. How is that so difficult for people to get it through? But now as we're on the topic regarding the teachings of Islam. Why don't you give me ONE verse in the Quran that says Muslims should kill Christians and Jews. (And just a recommendation, don't pick out the verses that are in reference of killing during War, as that would only make you look ignorant and proves that you fail to understand the concept of self defense.)
    You mention one of my favorite things that all non-Muslims like to attack Muslims on. That being suicide attacks and the so-called "religious" leaders praising it. To begin with, whether a person wants to commit a crime by suicide bombings, or go on a shooting spree and then kills themselves in the end, it makes absolutely NO difference. A crime is still a crime, and the things being done are still being done, just using different tactics. Are there no lunatics in America, or elsewhere around the world shooting random people and then taking their own lives in the end? But THAT doesn't get the same attention as opposed to when a Muslim straps a bomb, killing people and himself. Then THAT would be the only real BIG deal. Crimes are committed WORLDWIDE, thousands taking place each day. I wonder which regions of this vast earth is going to be presented to the people? Doesn't take a genius to figure that out. It doesn't make the actions of any person (regardless of ethnicity, religion) more right. Fact is, there are terrorists in EVERY religious group. And as for the "religious" leaders that encourage it, well they ain't no Messengers of God that's for sure. People who are regarded as religious in Islam are people who follow the teachings of Islam, and if they don't follow the teachings then they are not considered religious. How is that so complicated? But you obviously have not taken my previous post into consideration. All the countries that have been and are in control by America are the countries that are most prominent in attacks. What? Do you think that people of their own country are just going to sit there and watch the U.S. Army takeover and kill their loved ones? Of course Muslims are going to fight back, and are going to fight back hard, sometimes with illogical thinking due to the fact they have been OPPRESSED. But you wouldn't know, because as long as you're the oppressor and than that seems to be okay.
    "Of course, a factor in Islam's growth is the fact that Muslims breed like rabbits."
    And another thing, I suggest you do a little research instead of using that cliché everyone keeps using. It gets old.
    FACT: Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. The growth rate of Islam, according to the U.S. Center for World Mission, at 2.9% is higher than the 2.6% growth rate of the world's population.

    So as much as you and everyone don't want to believe that Muslims are increasing BIG TIME, the fact IS, people worldwide have, are, and still continue to come learn about Islam through ways other than these pathetic sites. This proves that the birth rate is not the only factor of Islam growing, but the fact that people are continually embracing Islam everyday. And quite frankly, it doesn't even matter for those uneducated people who say otherwise.

  • http://www.intensedebate.com/people/xkon xkon

    "Give me an example of just ONE non-Islamic state that would forbid me entry if I had spent time in a Muslim country. "
    Well, I don't know about YOU, but Muslims from the Middle East that I've personally known whom themselves have not made a stop to Pakistan (but merely their grandfathers), have NOT been allowed entry into the United Stated whatsoever.
    "And, of course, as one travels through Saudi Arabia one is awestruck by all the synagogues and churches in that enlightened land, isn't one?"
    I as an individual believe that if there were a minority of Christians or Jews living in a Muslim country, that they should be too taken into consideration, and have Churches and Synagogues constructed for them. Have you never considered Egypt, Jordon, Iraq, Iran? Do they not have the majority of the population being Muslims and the minority Christians? Aren't there churches? You have failed to mention those. As for Saudi Arabia, practically a 100% Muslim population, so why would other religious sites take place?
    "You state that suicide is forbidden …..told by their religious leaders that the rewards of Paradise await them. You claim….occupied by America. I did not realise that Britain was an occupied country"
    For the first and last time, KILLING (be it a suicide bombing or a shooting spree) is AGAINST the teachings of Islam. Whoever chooses to do so (say a Muslim) is NOT following the teachings of Islam and does NOT represent the actions of a whole group. How is that so difficult for people to get it through? But now as we're on the topic regarding the teachings of Islam. Why don't you give me ONE verse in the Quran that says Muslims should kill Christians and Jews. (And just a recommendation, don't pick out the verses that are in reference of killing during War, as that would only make you look ignorant and proves that you fail to understand the concept of self defense.)
    You mention one of my favorite things that all non-Muslims like to attack Muslims on. That being suicide attacks and the so-called "religious" leaders praising it. To begin with, whether a person wants to commit a crime by suicide bombings, or go on a shooting spree and then kills themselves in the end, it makes absolutely NO difference. A crime is still a crime, and the things being done are still being done, just using different tactics. Are there no lunatics in America, or elsewhere around the world shooting random people and then taking their own lives in the end? But THAT doesn't get the same attention as opposed to when a Muslim straps a bomb, killing people and himself. Then THAT would be the only real BIG deal. Crimes are committed WORLDWIDE, thousands taking place each day. I wonder which regions of this vast earth is going to be presented to the people? Doesn't take a genius to figure that out. It doesn't make the actions of any person (regardless of ethnicity, religion) more right. Fact is, there are terrorists in EVERY religious group. And as for the "religious" leaders that encourage it, well they ain't no Messengers of God that's for sure. People who are regarded as religious in Islam are people who follow the teachings of Islam, and if they don't follow the teachings then they are not considered religious. How is that so complicated? But you obviously have not taken my previous post into consideration. All the countries that have been and are in control by America are the countries that are most prominent in attacks. What? Do you think that people of their own country are just going to sit there and watch the U.S. Army takeover and kill their loved ones? Of course Muslims are going to fight back, and are going to fight back hard, sometimes with illogical thinking due to the fact they have been OPPRESSED. But you wouldn't know, because as long as you're the oppressor and than that seems to be okay.
    "Of course, a factor in Islam's growth is the fact that Muslims breed like rabbits."
    And another thing, I suggest you do a little research instead of using that cliché everyone keeps using. It gets old.
    FACT: Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. The growth rate of Islam, according to the U.S. Center for World Mission, at 2.9% is higher than the 2.6% growth rate of the world's population.

    So as much as you and everyone don't want to believe that Muslims are increasing BIG TIME, the fact IS, people worldwide have, are, and still continuing to come learn about Islam through ways other than these pathetic sites. This proves that the birth rate is not the only factor of Islam growing, but the fact that people are continually embracing Islam everyday. And quite frankly, it doesn't even matter for those uneducated people who say otherwise.

  • http://www.intensedebate.com/people/xkon xkon

    "Give me an example of just ONE non-Islamic state that would forbid me entry if I had spent time in a Muslim country. "
    Well, I don't know about YOU, but Muslims from the Middle East that I've personally known whom themselves have not made a stop to Pakistan (but merely their grandfathers), have NOT been allowed entry into the United Stated whatsoever.
    "And, of course, as one travels through Saudi Arabia one is awestruck by all the synagogues and churches in that enlightened land, isn't one?"
    I as an individual believe that if there were a minority of Christians or Jews living in a Muslim country, that they should be too taken into consideration, and have Churches and Synagogues constructed for them. Have you never considered Egypt, Jordon, Iraq, Iran? Do they not have the majority of the population being Muslims and the minority Christians? Aren't there churches? You have failed to mention those. As for Saudi Arabia, practically a 100% Muslim population, so why would other religious sites take place?
    "You state that suicide is forbidden …..told by their religious leaders that the rewards of Paradise await them. You claim….occupied by America. I did not realise that Britain was an occupied country"
    For the first and last time, KILLING (be it a suicide bombing or a shooting spree) is AGAINST the teachings of Islam. Whoever chooses to do so (say a Muslim) is NOT following the teachings of Islam and does NOT represent the actions of a whole group. How is that so difficult for people to get it through? But now as we're on the topic regarding the teachings of Islam. Why don't you give me ONE verse in the Quran that says Muslims should kill Christians and Jews. (And just a recommendation, don't pick out the verses that are in reference of killing during War, as that would only make you look ignorant and proves that you fail to understand the concept of self defense.)
    You mention one of my favorite things that all non-Muslims like to attack Muslims on. That being suicide attacks and the so-called "religious" leaders praising it. To begin with, whether a person wants to commit a crime by suicide bombings, or go on a shooting spree and then kills themselves in the end, it makes absolutely NO difference. A crime is still a crime, and the things being done are still being done, just using different tactics. Are there no lunatics in America, or elsewhere around the world shooting random people and then taking their own lives in the end? But THAT doesn't get the same attention as opposed to when a Muslim straps a bomb, killing people and himself. Then THAT would be the only real BIG deal. Crimes are committed WORLDWIDE, thousands taking place each day. I wonder which regions of this vast earth is going to be presented to the people? Doesn't take a genius to figure that out. It doesn't make the actions of any person (regardless of ethnicity, religion) more right. Fact is, there are terrorists in EVERY religious group. And as for the "religious" leaders that encourage it, well they ain't no Messengers of God that's for sure. People who are regarded as religious in Islam are people who follow the teachings of Islam, and if they don't follow the teachings then they are not considered religious. How is that so complicated? But you obviously have not taken my previous post into consideration. All the countries that have been and are in control by America are the countries that are most prominent in attacks. What? Do you think that people of their own country are just going to sit there and watch the U.S. Army takeover and kill their loved ones? Of course Muslims are going to fight back, and are going to fight back hard, sometimes with illogical thinking due to the fact they have been OPPRESSED. But you wouldn't know, because as long as you're the oppressor and than that seems to be okay.
    "Of course, a factor in Islam's growth is the fact that Muslims breed like rabbits."
    And another thing, I suggest you do a little research instead of using that cliché everyone keeps using. It gets old.
    FACT: Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. The growth rate of Islam, according to the U.S. Center for World Mission, at 2.9% is higher than the 2.6% growth rate of the world's population.

    So as much as you and everyone don't want to believe that Muslims are increasing BIG TIME, the fact IS, people worldwide have, are, and still continuing to come learn about Islam through ways other than these pathetic sites. This proves that the birth rate is not the only factor of Islam spreading, but the fact that people are continually embracing Islam everyday. And quite frankly, it doesn't even matter for those uneducated people who say otherwise.

  • http://www.intensedebate.com/people/xkon xkon

    "Give me an example of just ONE non-Islamic state that would forbid me entry if I had spent time in a Muslim country. "
    Well, I don't know about YOU, but Muslims from the Middle East that I've personally known whom themselves have not made a stop to Pakistan (but merely their grandfathers), have NOT been allowed entry into the United Stated whatsoever.
    "And, of course, as one travels through Saudi Arabia one is awestruck by all the synagogues and churches in that enlightened land, isn't one?"
    I as an individual believe that if there were a minority of Christians or Jews living in a Muslim country, that they should be too taken into consideration, and have Churches and Synagogues constructed for them. Have you never considered Egypt, Jordon, Iraq, Iran? Do they not have the majority of the population being Muslims and the minority Christians? Aren't there churches? You have failed to mention those. As for Saudi Arabia, practically a 100% Muslim population, so why would other religious sites take place?
    "You state that suicide is forbidden …..told by their religious leaders that the rewards of Paradise await them. You claim….occupied by America. I did not realise that Britain was an occupied country"
    For the first and last time, KILLING (be it a suicide bombing or a shooting spree) is AGAINST the teachings of Islam. Whoever chooses to do so (say a Muslim) is NOT following the teachings of Islam and does NOT represent the actions of a whole group. How is that so difficult for people to get it through? But now as we're on the topic regarding the teachings of Islam. Why don't you give me ONE verse in the Quran that says Muslims should kill Christians and Jews. (And just a recommendation, don't pick out the verses that are in reference of killing during War, as that would only make you look ignorant and proves that you fail to understand the concept of self defense.)
    You mention one of my favorite things that all non-Muslims like to attack Muslims on. That being suicide attacks and the so-called "religious" leaders praising it. To begin with, whether a person wants to commit a crime by suicide bombings, or go on a shooting spree and then kills themselves in the end, it makes absolutely NO difference. A crime is still a crime, and the things being done are still being done, just using different tactics. Are there no lunatics in America, or elsewhere around the world shooting random people and then taking their own lives in the end? But THAT doesn't get the same attention as opposed to when a Muslim straps a bomb, killing people and himself. Then THAT would be the only real BIG deal. Crimes are committed WORLDWIDE, thousands taking place each day. I wonder which regions of this vast earth is going to be presented to the people? Doesn't take a genius to figure that out. It doesn't make the actions of any person (regardless of ethnicity, religion) more right. Fact is, there are terrorists in EVERY religious group. And as for the "religious" leaders that encourage it, well they ain't no Messengers of God that's for sure. People who are regarded as religious in Islam are people who follow the teachings of Islam, and if they don't follow the teachings then they are not considered religious. How is that so complicated? But you obviously have not taken my previous post into consideration. All the countries that have been and are in control by America are the countries that are most prominent in attacks. What? Do you think that people of their own country are just going to sit there and watch the U.S. Army takeover and kill their loved ones? Of course Muslims are going to fight back, and are going to fight back hard, sometimes with illogical thinking due to the fact they have been OPPRESSED. But you wouldn't know, because as long as you're the oppressor and than that seems to be okay.
    "Of course, a factor in Islam's growth is the fact that Muslims breed like rabbits."
    And another thing, I suggest you do a little research instead of using that cliché everyone keeps using. It gets old.
    FACT: Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. The growth rate of Islam, according to the U.S. Center for World Mission, at 2.9% is higher than the 2.6% growth rate of the world's population.

    So as much as you and everyone don't want to believe that Muslims are increasing BIG TIME, the fact IS, people worldwide have, are, and still continuing to come learn about Islam through ways other than these pathetic sites. This proves that the birth rate is not the only factor of Islam spreading, but the fact that people are continually embracing Islam everyday. And quite frankly, it doesn't even matter for those uneducated people who say otherwise. Evidence proves it all.

  • http://www.intensedebate.com/people/xkon xkon

    "Give me an example of just ONE non-Islamic state that would forbid me entry if I had spent time in a Muslim country. "
    Well, I don't know about YOU, but Muslims from the Middle East that I've personally known whom themselves have not made a stop to Pakistan (but merely their grandfathers), have NOT been allowed entry into the United Stated whatsoever.
    "And, of course, as one travels through Saudi Arabia one is awestruck by all the synagogues and churches in that enlightened land, isn't one?"
    I as an individual believe that if there were a minority of Christians or Jews living in a Muslim country, that they should be too taken into consideration, and have Churches and Synagogues constructed for them. Have you never considered Egypt, Jordon, Iraq, Iran? Do they not have the majority of the population being Muslims and the minority Christians? Aren't there churches? You have failed to mention those. As for Saudi Arabia, practically a 100% Muslim population, so why would other religious sites take place?
    "You state that suicide is forbidden …..told by their religious leaders that the rewards of Paradise await them. You claim….occupied by America. I did not realise that Britain was an occupied country"
    For the first and last time, KILLING (be it a suicide bombing or a shooting spree) is AGAINST the teachings of Islam. Whoever chooses to do so (say a Muslim) is NOT following the teachings of Islam and does NOT represent the actions of a whole group. How is that so difficult for people to get it through? But now as we're on the topic regarding the teachings of Islam. Why don't you give me ONE verse in the Quran that says Muslims should kill Christians and Jews. (And just a recommendation, don't pick out the verses that are in reference of killing during War, as that would only make you look ignorant and proves that you fail to understand the concept of self defense.)
    You mention one of my favorite things that all non-Muslims like to attack Muslims on. That being suicide attacks and the so-called "religious" leaders praising it. To begin with, whether a person wants to commit a crime by suicide bombings, or go on a shooting spree and then kills themselves in the end, it makes absolutely NO difference. A crime is still a crime, and the things being done are still being done, just using different tactics. Are there no lunatics in America, or elsewhere around the world shooting random people and then taking their own lives in the end? But THAT doesn't get the same attention as opposed to when a Muslim straps a bomb, killing people and himself. Then THAT would be the only real BIG deal. Crimes are committed WORLDWIDE, thousands taking place each day. I wonder which regions of this vast earth is going to be presented to the people? Doesn't take a genius to figure that out. It doesn't make the actions of any person (regardless of ethnicity, religion) more right. Fact is, there are terrorists in EVERY religious group. And as for the "religious" leaders that encourage it, well they ain't no Messengers of God that's for sure. People who are regarded as religious in Islam are people who follow the teachings of Islam, and if they don't follow the teachings then they are not considered religious. How is that so complicated? But you obviously have not taken my previous post into consideration. All the countries that have been and are in control by America are the countries that are most prominent in attacks. What? Do you think that people of their own country are just going to sit there and watch the U.S. Army takeover and kill their loved ones? Of course Muslims are going to fight back, and are going to fight back hard, sometimes with illogical thinking due to the fact they have been OPPRESSED. But you wouldn't know, because as long as you're the oppressor and than that seems to be okay.
    "Of course, a factor in Islam's growth is the fact that Muslims breed like rabbits."
    And another thing, I suggest you do a little research instead of using that cliché everyone keeps using. It gets old.
    FACT: Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. The growth rate of Islam, according to the U.S. Center for World Mission, at 2.9% is higher than the 2.6% growth rate of the world's population.

    So as much as you and everyone don't want to believe that Muslims are increasing BIG TIME, the fact IS, people worldwide have, are, and still continuing to come learn about Islam through ways other than these pathetic sites. This proves that the birth rate is not the only factor of Islam spreading, but the fact that people are continually embracing Islam everyday. And quite frankly, it doesn't even matter for those uneducated people who say otherwise. The Facts prove them wrong.

  • http://www.intensedebate.com/people/xkon xkon

    "Give me an example of just ONE non-Islamic state that would forbid me entry if I had spent time in a Muslim country. "
    Well, I don't know about YOU, but Muslims from the Middle East that I've personally known whom themselves have not made a stop to Pakistan (but merely their grandfathers), have NOT been allowed entry into the United Stated whatsoever.
    "And, of course, as one travels through Saudi Arabia one is awestruck by all the synagogues and churches in that enlightened land, isn't one?"
    I as an individual believe that if there were a minority of Christians or Jews living in a Muslim country, that they should be too taken into consideration, and have Churches and Synagogues constructed for them. Have you never considered Egypt, Jordon, Iraq, Iran? Do they not have the majority of the population being Muslims and the minority Christians? Aren't there churches? You have failed to mention those. As for Saudi Arabia, practically a 100% Muslim population, so why would other religious sites take place?
    "You state that suicide is forbidden …..told by their religious leaders that the rewards of Paradise await them. You claim….occupied by America. I did not realise that Britain was an occupied country"
    For the first and last time, KILLING (be it a suicide bombing or a shooting spree) is AGAINST the teachings of Islam. Whoever chooses to do so (say a Muslim) is NOT following the teachings of Islam and does NOT represent the actions of a whole group. How is that so difficult for people to get it through? But now as we're on the topic regarding the teachings of Islam. Why don't you give me ONE verse in the Quran that says Muslims should kill Christians and Jews. (And just a recommendation, don't pick out the verses that are in reference of killing during War, as that would only make you look ignorant and proves that you fail to understand the concept of self defense.)
    You mention one of my favorite things that all non-Muslims like to attack Muslims on. That being suicide attacks and the so-called "religious" leaders praising it. To begin with, whether a person wants to commit a crime by suicide bombings, or go on a shooting spree and then kills themselves in the end, it makes absolutely NO difference. A crime is still a crime, and the things being done are still being done, just using different tactics. Are there no lunatics in America, or elsewhere around the world shooting random people and then taking their own lives in the end? But THAT doesn't get the same attention as opposed to when a Muslim straps a bomb, killing people and himself. Then THAT would be the only real BIG deal. Crimes are committed WORLDWIDE, thousands taking place each day. I wonder which regions of this vast earth is going to be presented to the people? Doesn't take a genius to figure that out. It doesn't make the actions of any person (regardless of ethnicity, religion) more right. Fact is, there are terrorists in EVERY religious group. And as for the "religious" leaders that encourage it, well they ain't no Messengers of God that's for sure. People who are regarded as religious in Islam are people who follow the teachings of Islam, and if they don't follow the teachings then they are not considered religious. How is that so complicated? But you obviously have not taken my previous post into consideration. All the countries that have been and are in control by America are the countries that are most prominent in attacks. What? Do you think that people of their own country are just going to sit there and watch the U.S. Army takeover and kill their loved ones? Of course Muslims are going to fight back, and are going to fight back hard, sometimes with illogical thinking due to the fact they have been OPPRESSED. But you wouldn't know, because as long as you're the oppressor and than that seems to be okay.
    "Of course, a factor in Islam's growth is the fact that Muslims breed like rabbits."
    And another thing, I suggest you do a little research instead of using that cliché everyone keeps using. It gets old.
    FACT: Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. The growth rate of Islam, according to the U.S. Center for World Mission, at 2.9% is higher than the 2.6% growth rate of the world's population.

    So as much as you and everyone don't want to believe that Muslims are increasing BIG TIME, the fact IS, people worldwide have, are, and still continuing to come learn about Islam through ways other than these pathetic sites. This proves that the birth rate is not the only factor of Islam spreading, but the fact that people are continually embracing Islam everyday. And quite frankly, it doesn't even matter for those uneducated people who say otherwise. The Facts prove them WRONG.

  • http://www.intensedebate.com/people/xkon xkon

    "Give me an example of just ONE non-Islamic state that would forbid me entry if I had spent time in a Muslim country. "
    Well, I don't know about YOU, but Muslims from the Middle East that I've personally known whom themselves have not made a stop to Pakistan (but merely their grandfathers), have NOT been allowed entry into the United Stated whatsoever.
    "And, of course, as one travels through Saudi Arabia one is awestruck by all the synagogues and churches in that enlightened land, isn't one?"
    I as an individual believe that if there were a minority of Christians or Jews living in a Muslim country, that they should be too taken into consideration, and have Churches and Synagogues constructed for them. Have you never considered Egypt, Jordon, Iraq, Iran? Do they not have the majority of the population being Muslims and the minority Christians? Aren't there churches? You have failed to mention those. As for Saudi Arabia, practically a 100% Muslim population, so why would other religious sites take place?
    "You state that suicide is forbidden …..told by their religious leaders that the rewards of Paradise await them. You claim….occupied by America. I did not realise that Britain was an occupied country"
    For the first and last time, KILLING (be it a suicide bombing or a shooting spree) is AGAINST the teachings of Islam. Whoever chooses to do so (say a Muslim) is NOT following the teachings of Islam and does NOT represent the actions of a whole group. How is that so difficult for people to get it through? But now as we're on the topic regarding the teachings of Islam. Why don't you give me ONE verse in the Quran that says Muslims should kill Christians and Jews. (And just a recommendation, don't pick out the verses that are in reference of killing during War, as that would only make you look ignorant and proves that you fail to understand the concept of self defense.)
    You mention one of my favorite things that all non-Muslims like to attack Muslims on. That being suicide attacks and the so-called "religious" leaders praising it. To begin with, whether a person wants to commit a crime by suicide bombings, or go on a shooting spree and then kills themselves in the end, it makes absolutely NO difference. A crime is still a crime, and the things being done are still being done, just using different tactics. Are there no lunatics in America, or elsewhere around the world shooting random people and then taking their own lives in the end? But THAT doesn't get the same attention as opposed to when a Muslim straps a bomb, killing people and himself. Then THAT would be the only real BIG deal. Crimes are committed WORLDWIDE, thousands taking place each day. I wonder which regions of this vast earth is going to be presented to the people? Doesn't take a genius to figure that out. It doesn't make the actions of any person (regardless of ethnicity, religion) more right. Fact is, there are terrorists in EVERY religious group. And as for the "religious" leaders that encourage it, well they ain't no Messengers of God that's for sure. People who are regarded as religious in Islam are people who follow the teachings of Islam, and if they don't follow the teachings then they are not considered religious. How is that so complicated? But you obviously have not taken my previous post into consideration. All the countries that have been and are in control by America are the countries that are most prominent in attacks. What? Do you think that people of their own country are just going to sit there and watch the U.S. Army takeover and kill their loved ones? Of course Muslims are going to fight back, and are going to fight back hard, sometimes with illogical thinking due to the fact they have been OPPRESSED. But you wouldn't know, because as long as you're the oppressor and than that seems to be okay.
    "Of course, a factor in Islam's growth is the fact that Muslims breed like rabbits."
    And another thing, I suggest you do a little research instead of using that cliché everyone keeps using. It gets old.
    FACT: Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. The growth rate of Islam, according to the U.S. Center for World Mission, at 2.9% is higher than the 2.6% growth rate of the world's population.

    So as much as you and everyone don't want to believe that Muslims are increasing BIG TIME, the fact IS, people worldwide have, are, and still continuing to come learn about Islam through ways other than these pathetic sites. This proves that the birth rate is not the only factor of Islam spreading, but the fact that people are continually embracing Islam everyday. And quite frankly, it doesn't even matter for those uneducated people who say otherwise. The Facts prove them WRONG.

  • http://www.intensedebate.com/people/xkon xkon

    "Give me an example of just ONE non-Islamic state that would forbid me entry if I had spent time in a Muslim country. "
    Well, I don't know about YOU, but Muslims from the Middle East that I've personally known whom themselves have not made a stop to Pakistan (but merely their grandfathers), have NOT been allowed entry into the United Stated whatsoever.
    "And, of course, as one travels through Saudi Arabia one is awestruck by all the synagogues and churches in that enlightened land, isn't one?"
    I as an individual believe that if there were a minority of Christians or Jews living in a Muslim country, that they should be too taken into consideration, and have Churches and Synagogues constructed for them. Have you never considered Egypt, Jordon, Iraq, Iran? Do they not have the majority of the population being Muslims and the minority Christians? Aren't there churches? You have failed to mention those. As for Saudi Arabia, practically a 100% Muslim population, so why would other religious sites take place?
    "You state that suicide is forbidden …..told by their religious leaders that the rewards of Paradise await them. You claim….occupied by America. I did not realise that Britain was an occupied country"
    For the first and last time, KILLING (be it a suicide bombing or a shooting spree) is AGAINST the teachings of Islam. Whoever chooses to do so (say a Muslim) is NOT following the teachings of Islam and does NOT represent the actions of a whole group. How is that so difficult for people to get it through? But now as we're on the topic regarding the teachings of Islam. Why don't you give me ONE verse in the Quran that says Muslims should kill Christians and Jews. (And just a recommendation, don't pick out the verses that are in reference of killing during War, as that would only make you look ignorant and proves that you fail to understand the concept of self defense.)
    You mention one of my favorite things that all non-Muslims like to attack Muslims on. That being suicide attacks and the so-called "religious" leaders praising it. To begin with, whether a person wants to commit a crime by suicide bombings, or go on a shooting spree and then kills themselves in the end, it makes absolutely NO difference. A crime is still a crime, and the things being done are still being done, just using different tactics. Are there no lunatics in America, or elsewhere around the world shooting random people and then taking their own lives in the end? But THAT doesn't get the same attention as opposed to when a Muslim straps a bomb, killing people and himself. Then THAT would be the only real BIG deal. Crimes are committed WORLDWIDE, thousands taking place each day. I wonder which regions of this vast earth is going to be presented to the people? Doesn't take a genius to figure that out. It doesn't make the actions of any person (regardless of ethnicity, religion) more right. Fact is, there are terrorists in EVERY religious group. And as for the "religious" leaders that encourage it, well they ain't no Messengers of God that's for sure. People who are regarded as religious in Islam are people who follow the teachings of Islam, and if they don't follow the teachings then they are not considered religious. How is that so complicated? But you obviously have not taken my previous post into consideration. All the countries that have been and are in control by America are the countries that are most prominent in attacks. What? Do you think that people of their own country are just going to sit there and watch the U.S. Army takeover and kill their loved ones? Of course Muslims are going to fight back, and are going to fight back hard, sometimes with illogical thinking due to the fact they have been OPPRESSED. But you wouldn't know, because as long as you're the oppressor and than that seems to be okay.
    "Of course, a factor in Islam's growth is the fact that Muslims breed like rabbits."
    And another thing, I suggest you do a little research instead of using that cliché everyone keeps using. It gets old.
    FACT: Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. The growth rate of Islam, according to the U.S. Center for World Mission, at 2.9% is higher than the 2.6% growth rate of the world's population.

    So as much as you and everyone don't want to believe that Muslims are increasing BIG TIME, the fact IS, people worldwide have, are, and still continuing to come learn about Islam through ways other than these pathetic sites. This proves that the birth rate is not the only factor of Islam spreading, but the fact that people are continually embracing Islam everyday. And quite frankly, it doesn't even matter for those uneducated people who say otherwise. The Facts prove them WRONG.
    Oh, and one more thing. I'm only assuming that some of the points I made in my previous post that you have not rebuked meant that you failed to find an error in my argument. Just saying.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/mjazz mjazz

    I read an article in The Providence Phoenix a number of years ago, and they actually sell girls over there.

  • MudBoy

    The difference is the Christian went to jail because Christians think it is sick behavior.
    The Muslims wont have any charges against they think "there is nothing in it" for raping little girls.
    The article says “Everything was done according to the customs and traditions of the village". After the young girls were raped, they were sent home with the Muslims saying “The matter has been settled and there is nothing in it now”.
    My conclusion is Islam teaches that it is OK to do things Christians find to be evil.

  • Beej

    Xkon, I responded to this message of yours a few days ago, but my post has not appeared. Strange. As ever, you attempt to evade the issue at hand. Of course it is true that countries will deny entry of undesirables if they are deemed to pose a threat to those countries, but this is not the point. America does not have a formal policy to bar people from Islamic states from entering, but Islamic states DO have the policy of denying entry to those who have visited Israel, even if only for a holiday. This speaks volumes for the minds of the followers of your religion of peace and love and tolerance.

  • ljcarolyne

    Tonto: You got it, but also it could be the boys penis is so underdeveloped they can't perform with a real woman. Then these old geezers that marry the young children have the same type of problem. Their little piss ant is so petered out, a real woman would die laughing at that ugly thing, HELLO!
    Sicko, psycho bunch of punks, for sure. Pathetic reprobate minds. GRRRR!

  • ljcarolyne

    Hey girl: ewwwwww is right! nasty! GRRRR!

  • ljcarolyne

    Kal_El Agreed: The sun would grow dark on those reprobate scum. Ratbags is a good name calling, thanks Beejj. Yea, they know it is beyond evil, so 'fraidy cat' has got their tongue!

  • Tonto

    FYI xkon (I assume you're a muz scumbag yourself), Jesus said “If you have no sword, sell your cloak and buy one”. I think the intent there was to show that one can be “nice” to one's neighbor, but be willing to defend what is yours from him.

  • Tonto

    FYI xkon (I assume you're a muz scumbag yourself), Jesus said “If you have no sword, sell your cloak and buy one”. I think the intent there was to show that one can be “nice” to one's neighbor, but be willing to defend what is yours from him.

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