Regarding your response:

This mess doesn't have anything to do with national security. It's partially about empire-building and being the biggest international bully. But it's mostly about keeping Americans terrorized so we accept abominable violations of our rights like the PATRIOT Act. If anybody in D.C. actually cared about national security, they'd start by securing our borders.

When I used the phrase “war profiteers,” I specifically meant Giuliani. He's made millions off of 9/11 and its victims. Not to mention that it gave him the political capitol to make a credible stab at the Presidency.

During WW2, every American did without in order to support the war effort. We obviously can't expect companies to go non-profit during a war (especially since we're almost constantly at war), but maybe we should expect them to dial down the profits. If it's not worth sacrifice, we probably shouldn't be involved in that war in the first place. The military-industrial complex is bad, precisely because it gives private industry a motive to want wars.

This isn't a Democrat/Republican thing: both parties are equally guilty of sacrificing the lives of our soldiers in meaningless wars. I'm sure most of them believe there's some sort of legitimate national security interest at stake, but all they're really accomplishing is creating more enemies.

This whole thing seem like it was modeled after 1984. We had the Evil Russian Empire breathing down our necks, and it was every American's duty to cede extra powers to the government to protect us from them. The Taliban were our friends. They basically defeated the evil Russians for us.

Now the Russians are (more or less) our friends, and we have to give up our rights so the government can protect us from the evil Taliban.

How did Americans become such cowards?

You asked how I would have handled 9/11. Most of my friends were ready to just nuke Iraq into a playing field. I convinced them that they needed to take a deep breath, step back, and look at the bigger picture. We didn't have any evidence that Iraq was involved at all (and now most people have realized that there was pretty much no connection, if any, with Iraq). The evidence we have seen is extremely sketchy and doubtful.

Waterboarding is torture. Anyone who doesn't believe that should find someone who's been trained to do it and give it a spin. See how long you can hold out. I'm pretty certain that, if I'd been subjected to as much as KSM had, I'd have confessed to masterminding 9/11 and begged to die, too.

A confession obtained under torture is absolutely meaningless. People really should have realized that after the Spanish Inquisition.

Here's the bottom line: the way things stand now, there's only one thing stopping the American government from declaring you an enemy combatant and making you disappear is the kindness of its heart. Maybe *you* trust that, but I can't think of any reason to.

p.s. Just because you brought it up: I agree that the whole “right to health care” thing is completely ridiculous. But I'm a fan of the free market. I believe that the main reason health care is so expensive is government interference in the market, mainly caused by lobbyists from the insurance industry and the AMA. The other big reason I see is the frivolous law suits that have doctors ordering needless tests to cover their own asses.

Regarding your response:

This mess doesn't have anything to do with national security. It's partially about empire-building and being the biggest international bully. But it's mostly about keeping Americans terrorized so we accept abominable violations of our rights like the PATRIOT Act. If anybody in D.C. actually cared about national security, they'd start by securing our borders.

When I used the phrase “war profiteers,” I specifically meant Giuliani. He's made millions off of 9/11 and its victims. Not to mention that it gave him the political capitol to make a credible stab at the Presidency.

During WW2, every American did without in order to support the war effort. We obviously can't expect companies to go non-profit during a war (especially since we're almost constantly at war), but maybe we should expect them to dial down the profits. If it's not worth sacrifice, we probably shouldn't be involved in that war in the first place. The military-industrial complex is bad, precisely because it gives private industry a motive to want wars.

This isn't a Democrat/Republican thing: both parties are equally guilty of sacrificing the lives of our soldiers in meaningless wars. I'm sure most of them believe there's some sort of legitimate national security interest at stake, but all they're really accomplishing is creating more enemies.

This whole thing seem like it was modeled after 1984. We had the Evil Russian Empire breathing down our necks, and it was every American's duty to cede extra powers to the government to protect us from them. The Taliban were our friends. They basically defeated the evil Russians for us.

Now the Russians are (more or less) our friends, and we have to give up our rights so the government can protect us from the evil Taliban.

How did Americans become such cowards?

You asked how I would have handled 9/11. Most of my friends were ready to just nuke Iraq into a playing field. I convinced them that they needed to take a deep breath, step back, and look at the bigger picture. We didn't have any evidence that Iraq was involved at all (and now most people have realized that there was pretty much no connection, if any, with Iraq). The evidence we have seen is extremely sketchy and doubtful.

Waterboarding is torture. Anyone who doesn't believe that should find someone who's been trained to do it and give it a spin. See how long you can hold out. I'm pretty certain that, if I'd been subjected to as much as KSM had, I'd have confessed to masterminding 9/11 and begged to die, too.

A confession obtained under torture is absolutely meaningless. People really should have realized that after the Spanish Inquisition.

Here's the bottom line: the way things stand now, there's only one thing stopping the American government from declaring you an enemy combatant and making you disappear is the kindness of its heart. Maybe *you* trust that, but I can't think of any reason to.

p.s. Just because you brought it up: I agree that the whole “right to health care” thing is completely ridiculous. But I'm a fan of the free market. I believe that the main reason health care is so expensive is government interference in the market, mainly caused by lobbyists from the insurance industry and the AMA. The other big reason I see is the frivolous law suits that have doctors ordering needless tests to cover their own asses.

Why is the idea of national security so hard for you to understand?

You mention “war profiteers” as if creating goods and services that create jobs and provide our military with the ability to carry out the orders of the President, especially in a time of war is a bad thing? Would you only want non-profits involved in supplying the efforts of the military to carry out missions? The notion that you should eliminate profit while at war is stupid and naive. It's the same ridiculousness that goes with health care, thinking that all of the health care industry should be non-profit. It's hopelessly ignorant to think that you can remove the capitalist system and still sustain the same amount of ingenuity, risk, investment, expansion and thus quality in your product.

You imply that republicans only wage war because they want “profit”. Did it ever occur to you that they have a deep found interest in protecting the American people? What would you have done after 9-11? We took out the Taliban with the help of NATO. There were all kinds of “profits” made on that operation. Does that make everyone in NATO a “war profiteer”??

While I respect your opinion, it borders on irrational absurdity.

With respect to the KSM trial in NY, I've already laid out my reasons above. I'd like to see you address each point rather than just be happy about exposing our intelligence services identities, tactics and operational techniques, not to mention the insult to the families of 9-11, not to mention the VERY REAL possibility this people could get aquitted once the jury finds out they were never read their Miranda rights, never given a lawyer, so called “tortured” by our President's own admission, among other (what would be determined) as unjust with the assumption this terrorist deserves all the rights awarded to the regular American citizen.

This isn't a small step forward, Jim. This is a HUGE step backward that puts the American people and the country in MUCH greater danger.

This *is* a [small] step forward, though. Sure, he might wind up insulting the friends and family of the victims. I think the risk of that, weighed against the principle that the government can't just point a finger and pronounce someone guilty, is much more than worth it.

Before the flames start, I'm not a liberal by any stretch (unless you want to go way back to the roots of classical liberalism). I'm just neither a coward nor a war profiteer like the neocons quoted in the article.

i hate to admit it, but rush is correct. i have had experience in the intel community, and this truth scares the hell out of me.