Saudi Arabia: Non-Muslims trapped in Medina

Its a fact that in all muslim countries, the muslims act like animals and ass-holes. That damned muhammad really threw the screws to peoples who fell/fall for his crap. I have watched some arabs doing stuff on you-tube, and I think that they could be real fun people to be around if they just didn't have that stinking religion.

Phukin sand niggers. I hope Iran nukes the shit out of them. Muslims desperately need a taste of hell before they get there.

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All of this makes me wonder why anyone would volunteer to fly their damned "hajii" flights. Let those phukin ni**ers walk to that shit hole called Sowdi-Arabia. Freakin buncha pigs dressed in bed sheets (year around, at that...).

i used to work for 1 of the chartered flights who used to ferry hajj passengers from india/pakistan to saudi arabia.. I personally have seen how non- Muslims crew members were stationed at the Le-Meridian Hotel which was located outside the Haram zone [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haram ]. I can also recollect coming across an Air India Crew member[all non-muslims]. They had a "guide" who was supposed to arrange things like food for them as they were advised not to leave the hotel. I have seen Saudi Airlines and other non-muslims pilots crib for getting a layover there as they have to confine themselves to the hotel, however they are well taken care off in the hotel itself as the airline management foots the bill of their breakfast, lunch and dinner as well as laundry... And i dont understand.. If they had so many crew members they could have easily ferried the same plane to jeddah. well as the topic of non-muslims not allowed in the holy sites are concerned i am in a strong belief that they should be. Heard a rumor about the same about the custodian(the king) trying to debate this with the religious police out there.. Wonder what happened!!

Eech and every time in the past, the wahhabist and salafists would then in the mosques talk to the masses about "crusaders on our holy soil". That has a big effect because one of the cultural self-importance that Saudis have is that their whole country is Holy and not just the regions around Mecca and Medina. As the Kuwaitis love to point out in a saying, "which haddith has ever claimed holiness to the Hijaz and Najd?" (Hijaz being that Saudi area that inclueds Mecca and Medina and Najd the Eastern part).

The argument though falls down with that motive along with the argument about controlling Mecca and Medina which they already are pushed to the limits with the two Hajj periods and the constant "Omrah" visits. The reality is still that as much as the King and his supporters are trying to de-radicalize Saudi Arabia, they are way, way behind or unable to do it.

One point that you made is correct, there is enough flights and capacity to ship all these stragglers to Jeddah, why they do not is strange. I know any Muslim tour group that come stuck get free help. More "special treatment" by certain groups perhaps?

" wahhabist and salafists "

Why do you enjoy to differentiate those groups from the rest of the muslims ?

To WHITEWASH their dirty deeds commited in the name of islam as a whole ?

Do you reckon that you are being straightforward about this ?

Please, just CONFESS that you really belong to a MURDEROUS SECT, will ya ?
No more SPIN, B.S.,CRETIN EUPHEMISMS !!!!

Just say it:

" I'm Solkhar, a former Christian who betrayed my parents' faith to become
a follower and P.R. activist of the most violent strain of thought ever created
by men, ISLAM, and I'm proudly attempting to deceive the infidels about the
true nature and aims of my faith ".

Better to be known as a sinner than a hypocrite.
- Proverb

Don't approach a goat from the front, a horse from the back, or a fool from any side.
- Jewish Proverb

Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain -- and most fools do.
- Dale Carnegie

Bigotry dwarfs the soul by shutting out the truth.
- Edwin Hubbel Chapin

" Don't approach a goat from the front, a horse from the back, or a fool from any side.
- Jewish Proverb "

Muslims will ALWAYS approach a goat from BEHIND...

This proverb is wise, but unfortunately the only fool in here
is YOU.

You SHOULD aknowledge that you belong to a PERFID,
DEATH-ADORING, LIFE-HATER, ANTI-WOMEN, BLOODTHIRSTY SECT.
Just confess it. Period.

The whole Earth and whole Universe is uniformly attached to the Holy because God made it all - it is all His - not just a little corner of it in Saudi Arabia.

I can envision God Himself mocking and laughing at these arrogant buffoons.

This event is given the cicumstances to b e expected!
Ridiculous behaviour by barbarians is treated as normal:receiving scant criticism in the MSM.
What is needed is round condemnation and an increase in ridicule of those jokers in fancy dress.
Universal standards of decency should be demanded and n ot ignored.

Though I think all your posts are gut-responses based on ignorance, so me of you have half the answer.

The problem is not Islam, Muslims or even just radicalism. It is Saudi Arabia using the Holy Cities as an excuse to have a closed shop.

What I think should be done is that the Vatican - not Rome and any other Holy City should ban Saudi Nationals from entry to point out tit-for-tat bans. Jerusalam is basically a no-go city for Saudis anyhow and if it was not I would demand the same.

Yes, I agree that Mecca and Medina should be open to others to visit but at the same time it should be controlled. Not for religious reasons, but for logisitcs - having been on Hajj and two times other visits, when 2 plus million people converge, it is a hectic and already struggling place to go around. That should not be a reason to ban others, especially from the rest of the country - which is again, Saudi political subject.

Now you understand why I think what I do about your responses.

" Jerusalam is basically a no-go city for Saudis anyhow "

The "saudis" do not recognize Israel nor the Jewish sovereignty
over Jerusalem. When this CRETIN stance changes, the " saudis"
will be able to visit Jerusalem , or "Al Quds" as they call it, as
everybody else.

The problem is that muslims do not want to " visit" Jerusalem,
but to CONQUER it.

This ain't gonna happen. Not in this life.

"I think all your posts are gut-responses based on ignorance"

And I think you over complicate things. It doesn't take an armchair intellectual to figure out what the problem is here.

I could care less about it being "controlled". That's not the point of the post. You're straying from the topic. The point is the human rights abuse of an Islamic controlled country. It has EVERYTHING to do with Islam and the world should be careful to note that this is potentially what could happen if strict Islamic rule dominates a country.

Whenever we talk about Saudi Arabia, it's disingenuous to NOT bring up Islam and to claim that Islam has nothing to do with it is putting those blinders back on about human rights.

I find it ironic that you take particular issue when we speak about American exceptionalism yet when Saudi Arabia is discussed, you sudden;y start defending their actions. And yes, make no mistake, your response is in DEFENSE of Saudi Arabia claiming it has nothing to do with Islam.

Your moral compass is so far off it's scary

My moral compass is absoluely fine and I also consider your response that was given as a perfect example of how "armchair" expertise fails.

Absolutely when you talk about Saudi Arabia you must bring up Islam, it has the two Holy Cities and just about everyone is exclusively Muslim. But your constant assumptions that everything has to do with religion is your biggest problem - the over generalization is, unfortunately typical miopic stereotyping. Rather like the average Saudi considers, incorrectly, that most Americans are money-worshipping arrogants that have no understanding of what is God.

I agree with you that this is a great example of what may happens if radicalism is in control, there is no dispute there, but it is also an example of radical politics.

Remember, my reasoning for responding is almost always when I see emotive or illogical BS.

The "no non-Muslims" in Saudia Arabia is a political decision of Saudi politics, Islam is just the excuse. In most cases, in most places, Islam is the excuse for man's political decisions. If anything is rather disingenuous is the constant assumptions by all you armchair experts is the assumption that everything is religiously inspired but your own world it is not. Let's get this straight for once.

I have stated and you should understand it - radicalism is willing to modify faith to support their politics when someone whom is religiously serious will should follow the opposite - modifying their politics to support their faith.

So for me, all I am interested in is people understanding these points. So bag Saudi politics all you want, I can tell you a truck load of examples how bad that place is, and none of it can be incorrectly assumed to give DEFENSE of that country. I do like some things there, and none of it has much to do with how they view Shari'a and their continued tolerance of radicalists and extremists.

Nothing ironic at all, I have a clear position here.

solkhar: "most Americans are money-worshipping arrogants that have no understanding of what is God."

Your supernatural powers are now evident, and your clerical robes are showing; you have become a judge of men's souls - by the hundreds of millions. Are you a prophet of Islam or just an Imam? Do you have an AK-47?

Our beef is not with the purely religious practice of Islam, i.e.: worship of God and good works; our beef is with the evils of coercive totalitarian Islamic Sharia Law and torturing / assissinating / murdering / mass-murdering Islamic military Jihad.

Death to political (totalitarian) Islam.

Death to torturing / murdering Islamic Jihad.

With all due respect S_R but grow up! I did not say it, I say others said it. Do I have to spell it out again?

"Rather like the average Saudi considers, incorrectly, that most Americans are money-worshipping arrogants........."

If your going to base your judgements, accussations and condemnations on misrepresentations and not accurate information, your have already faild your point. Voltaire correctly said that without accuracy in a debate, the debate becomes only gossip".

Your "beef" against totalitarian Shari'a Law is my own so I have no problem there at all, I join your "beef". I am also totally apposed to little "j" jihadism which is the political usurping of what is an important term in Islam - Jihad. If anything spurs on the weak minded and timid Muslim masses from denouncing radicals it is the abuse of that term.

So please do not go for the emotive and stick the facts please, do not incorrectly and purposefully quote me incorrect, we are in fact on the same side.

" that most Americans are money-worshipping arrogants........."


Unlike the "saudi royal family" with their yachts, luxury cars, customized
747's... They really are very "spiritual" and hate their money...

I sometimes make mistakes, and for this one I apologize. The man who can't admit a mistake will never learn from mistakes; such a man flees from truth and becomes dangerous to others.

I believe Solkhar was referring to what Saudi's "incorrectly believe" in that sentence.

Everything else I agree with.

I stand corrected, and apologies to solkhar.

no, you're wrong. Sorry, you can't take Islam out of the argument when we're talking Saudi Arabia. Keep excusing Islamic Law all you want, we're not buying it.

Islam is the epitome of the double standard. They act as though their "god", and their "god's" spokesmen are superior to everyone else's. How could this be if their"god" is the same "god" as the Jewish and Christian, as they claim? If there is just one "god", then their holy cities should be holy to all three religions. But no, the reality is that they believe Allah is superior, and his religion is superior, and his followers are superior, to all other "gods" and religions. Their actions again put the lie to their words.

For some reason, many people believe that Muslims suffer from an inferority complex. The mass anger management issues are probably part of the reason why they believe this. Once Muslims begin to feel better about themselves, they will come around.

I disagree. Sir Wilhelm is correct in that the followers of Islam believe that they are better than everyone else. This is a sense of superiority that reminds me of Japan's attitude prior to World War II. Many believed that the U.S. was decadent and morally corrupt. The country was run by gangsters. Japan was aggressive and attacked out of a sense of moral superority.

Rome is an open city. Jerusalem is also an open city.

Muslims do not let infidels enter their cities but WHINE
when they feel that we don't treat them well...

If we are " islamophobes ", what muslims should be called
for prohibiting non-muslims in Medina or Mecca ?


I'd love to visit those islamic cities not as a mere tourist,
but as a B-2's pilot on a BOMBING MISSION.

most wel come with ur B-2 bomber,come on.................do'nt forget we are muslims and our region is islam,come on pig,ur dream always dream still up to death.

Are you welcoming me ? Gee, thanks!

We're gonna spread PIG'S BLOOD ALL OVER Mecca and Medina and they will become UNHOLY for you.


" do'nt forget we are muslims "

Writing this manner how could I ignore that fact?


" come on pig,ur dream always dream still up to death "

Did you say PIG ?
Did you say DEATH?
Did you say DREAM?

My DREAM is to shove a good,suculent chunk of pork into your stinky mouth and
force you to eat it until your DEATH.


MUSLIM MICROBE.

Hopefully one day it will happen. Ameen.

Jerusalem is an "open city" ???? Yeah, only to a point. I had visas because I worked there before, my employees never get one, even though they are needed to do the job. Mention you wish to go to Al Aqsa and your out, I visited there and the Dome and now I now am no longer allowed to go........

What's this? It seems my ignorance is growing daily. Are you saying that you are not allowed into Jerusalem because you are Muslim? If this is so, I am shocked and disturbed. In the silly little world of my silly little mind I thought Jerusalem is an open city, or whatever the term is, but now you drop this bombshell. Can you expand on this, please?

I wrote a reply to that person above that explains the background, not the why. For you I am happy to.

How many Muslims other than residents are actually allowed to visit the State of Israel. Almost none, they are presumed to supporters of regimes and the policy of not recognising Israel and more than that, they - well their passport - represents a country that does not, and thus they are banned. The sytem does not cope will with Muslims entering the country or getting a visa, it simply is uncommon. Now having said that, someone with my background and previous travels under diplomatic passports had done so and there was no issues, thus I was given one as a private citizen that last time.

My feeling is that the IDF and some right-wingers whom infiltrate all organisations simply did not like a Muslim - regardless if he is a European with credentials, being in their Jewish State. So they implied that I broke some ruling and deviated from my intentions. The implication was enough to get the ban and you are guilty until you prove otherwise. In my letter of complaint I sent a copy of the visa which was for business and "without restriction".

I have said a few times, I have no issue with the existance of Israel, it is a reality and there are people there and there are people born there in that nation. I have good relations with Jews, I employ them, have friendship with them and so on. I have a problem with a right-wing State as it is with links to their own religous radicalism and State-run arrogance which I had suffered. The certainly believe the average Jew in Israel wants peace and a two-state solution, peace and even friendship and economic collaboration with Palestinians. It is that they are victimized by threat and it automatically puts them on a defencive which fear from threat does. However, there are arrogant, extremists and radicals there as well, they are by that very nature targetting the IDF and government to push their agenda, they have a sick hatred for Muslims for simply being Muslims. Though Hamas and Hezbollah shoot and bomb, their poisonous language of hatred is used by these radicals within Israel as well.

I always point out, I dispise all of them, extremism and radicalism is evil no matter for what cause.

Thank you, Solkhar, for your reply. I confess you have opened my eyes and put me in a brown study. Indeed, I really should ponder your words for longer, but I'll put in my two-bob's worth here and now.

As I see it, Israel is highly circumspect when it comes to allowing Muslims into the country. Correct? Standing where I do, in wondrous Australia, I can attempt to view the matter even-handedly, but I confess at the outset that this is difficult for me, given my love and admiration for the Jews and my intense distrust of anything that has the flavour of Islam about it. Time and again on this site you have tried to be the voice of Islamic reason and moderation, but nothing you will ever say will convince me that your religion is not the scourge of humanity. (I have taught Muslim youngsters - beautiful people - and lots of Jews - difficult, argumentative sonsofbitches! - but I know that my views and attempted teachings are doomed to be ineffective against the indoctrination they have received almost since birth from "informed" (!) Islamic clerics and their parents.)

Some years ago I was invited to apply for a job teaching Chemistry in Oman. Exciting prospect, I thought. I love new countries and strange new people. All was going swimmingly until the moment I discovered that if I had previously visited Israel (i had not, nor have I) I was forbidden to enter Oman. I was incensed! Upon the instant I told them what to do with their job. What kinds of people are these morons? There! My question answers my question! I'm not certain, but this might have been the moment that finally opened my mind to these strange souls who follow Mohammed. Until then, they were just weirdos who treated women appallingly, murdered Olympic athletes, planted bombs in shopping centres, lost wars against the Jews and wasted oxygen. (Sorry, Solkhar, but your coreligionists do not impress me.) Suddenly I was face to face with Islam, and I was not enamoured. How dare these people forbid me to bestow my learning upon the youth of Oman because I might have spent a few days in Israel! Bit by bit I discovered that those not of the Islamic faith were persona non grata in Mecca and Medina (Muslims must fervently detest old Richard Burton!). Indeed, Osama got seriously pissed when infidel troops dared to set foot on "holy" Saudi soil during the Kuwait business (didn't the Yanks do well?? Never fuck with the Yanks, as Thomas Aquinas put it.) If I try VERY hard I MIGHT accept this, but forbidding entry into certain Islamic lands to people who have visited Israel is too much for me to accept. Honestly, Solkhar, this is DISEASED, as I believe you will agree.

And now you tell me about Israel's restrictions. Let's be idealists. Israel is wrong. No argument from me. Now let's be realists. Far above any country on the planet, Israel is under threat: a threat to its very existence. What Britain experienced in 1940 does not BEGIN to compare what Israel daily faces. Is there a Muslim alive who would shed a tear if Israel were wiped out? I do not believe so. Not even you, Solkhar. Search your heart and mind and soul. Why should you care for Israel? You are squarely in the Muslim camp. Is it, then, any wonder if Israel might become a little paranoid? Argue for all your worth that most Muslims do not seek Israel's downfall, but do not expect anyone to believe you. I won't, and neither, I hope, does Bibi. If Israel drops its guard, it's kaput. They cannot afford mistakes, unlike every Islamic country. Israel lives in nightmare, so if they react or even overreact to perceived threats, who is to blame them?

It's sad that Israel imposes the restrictions you identify, but necessity drives.

Cannot find much fault in what you say at all except terminology and that is an understandable result of how information and understanding disseminates. "Suddenly I was face to face with Islam, and I was not enamoured." My response is that it is you came face to face with Arab Nationalism and politics. Arab nationalism through international politics basically forced all Muslim countries to condemn Israel and the way to do that best is to forbid the recognition and thus the passport thing. I have alway had two passports, one to go to Israel and one to allow me my other travels, because of my work I am allowed to continue that. It certainly is rediculous and this Arab-Nationalism is just as much a problem to ME peace as the Palestinian nationhood issue or Israeli right-wing politics.

The reality is they all play their games, in fact all countries play the game in some form or other albiet not at the affecting lives or destroying lives as they do in the ME region. There is a statement in Arabic that translates as "when chaos reigns man embraces it". and I believe that. In the middle of a conflict and chaos you see the ugliness that comes out. Lebanon was the Paris of the Meditteranian and then they all started killing each other in horrible ways and Muslims, Jews and Christians whom were married together, business partners, school friends and neighbours attacked each other. Needless to say anyone with a grudge took revenge in the worst way. Years later the same happend in the Balkans in B&H with exactly the same situation. Serb Nationalism was the catalyst and though they did the worst - because they were dominant, all took their opportunities. My parents talk about their individual lives on how bad things were and my mother who lived in the southern province of North Brabant in The Netherlands tells about German brutality but also how when starvation was occuring how some locals killed each other for a wheelbarrow load of wood.

Hatred comes from experience, rumour, breeding (coming from the parents) and selfish greed and that is a fact. Given the opportunity, such hatred turns into action. You read the crap from our Brazillian hate-monger and imagine if he was given the capacity to make his words come true. I have no doubt that at the moment because of chaos, the sheer number of those of my own faith are even more crazed as this a-hole and many do have the capacity and oppurtunity to make it happen and do so.

That is why I push the three simple lines that form a circle. 1) Chaos brings out the worst in people. 2) Radicals/Extremists subvert their faith to suit their politics and not the other way round and 3) Radicalims and extremism requires chaos. The enemy of radicalism and extremism is normality. Make the world more normal and all the propoganda that radicals give to create chaos is turned on its head and the radicalism shrinks. Normality means dealing with each other, trading with each other, just simply letting life go on. All the Muslim countries were life is good, normal and without issues are the ones that have relationships ongoing with the west and other nations. Prof. Nasr, an Iranian born American political-ME studies professor at Harvard says the cure to all the radicalism in the Middle-East is in fact through trade and business, because he said it creates such normalism and also to be blunt 'money talks and bullsh*t walks". He said that last night on CNN and he apologised for the language that stunned Farid Zakaria no end. But the point is right. Money means advancement and opportunity and is the base simple factor that opens doors, so let it be that way instead of trying to use language that falls flat to tired and battered ears.

Cheers

Thank you for your considered reply, Solkhar. Yes, it is undeniably true that probably every country engages in nefarious practices. Human nature at work. Countries are, after all, people. I often confess to being simple minded, so I shall again use that defective organ to say that if, by some marvellous magic, religion vanished at a stroke from our lives, the world would be immediately improved. Howls of protest! Cries of "Rubbish!" Really?

" I chose to go to Al Qods "

" and they simply said you took an improper side trip to "Jerusalem". "

You do not even recognize the JEWISH CHARACTER of Jerusalem by
calling it "Al Qods" . Its name is HEBREW.

YERUSHALAIM = IR ( CITY) HA SHALOM ( OF PEACE).

NOBODY calls it " Al Qods " but muslims.


Muslims SHOULDN'T be welcomed because they SUPPORT
TERRORISM.

The EUPHEMISM "resistence" is widely used by your ilk to
brazenly justify TERRORISM.
Muslims spawned in Europe and America were discovered
plotting to do their religious homework in Israel, that is
to BOMB Jewish folks there.


" I have a problem with a right-wing State "

Nope. You've got a problem with a JEWISH STATE. You simply do not
accept its existence, sovereignty and military superiority.


"certainly believe the average Jew in Israel wants peace and a two-state solution, peace and even friendship and economic collaboration with Palestinians "

Whereas your above written assessment could be truthful, the very same certainly can't describe what the muslims who call themselves "palestinians" feel.
They want a "ONE STATE SOLUTION"... a MUSLIM ONE.

If I were you, I'd be more forthcoming about Israel and its obvious Jewish character.You are
trying to ignore the HISTORICAL RIGHT that exist between that land and the Jewish
People since a long time ago when even Mohammad didn't appear to frighten the world.


I do regard you as an ENEMY of the State of Israel and of the Jewish People.

Your a dickhead.

I stated numerous times I support the two-state solution, I have even supported that country in my own work against terrorism financing, I work with Jews.

Your just an ugly racist pig with words that are as bad and ugly as hamas and hezbollah, with your keyboard as your weapon and that is all.

If you going to constantly make things up or exagerate, instead of responding to the actual texts given by people, it really begs to wonder what your purpose is except self-gratification.

AHA !!
" Your a dickhead "

Haven't you got ANOTHER nickname in which you've wrote the word " dickhead"
repeatedly ?

YES, YOU DID post using other nicknames. SCOUNDRELS do that.

Former DIPLOMAT ???

HAHAHAHA !!!

Your MASK just fell. You are just ANOTHER FILTHY MUSLIM.

" and now I now am no longer allowed to go..."

Why do you reckon you should be allowed to go there ?

You are a VICIOUS ENEMY of the State of Israel, therefore
you mustn't receive a VISA to enter Israel.

Jerusalem received MILLIONS of tourists from EVERYWHERE...
I've been there twice ( 1989 and 1998 ) and I've seen Catholics,
Baptists, Episcopalians, Mormons, Anglicans, Lutherans, Greek
and Russian Orthodox, Armenian, people wearing Jesus' robes,
many Japanese, South American ( a lot of Brazilians)...

Before 1967, the city was DIVIDED and CLOSED by the muslims,
who DESECRATED Jewish sites with gusto.

Jerusalem WAS, IS and FOREVER WILL BE the sole and indivisible
CAPITAL of MEDINAT ISRAEL.

The TOURISTS will always be welcomed in Jerusalem, including
the carriers of the islamic plague as long as they come without
their traditional bomb-vests, AK-47s, butcher knives and hand
grenades. The only weapon muslims could bring is a copy
of the Al Qur'anus.

JEWHAWK: I loved your response, and could care less if Whose-IT? likes our responses or NOT . . .
Also, liked Sir Wilhelm's, & tim in fla, joesix_pack, and whosoever says it like it really is. Saudi Arabian 'PIGS' is a good name for these lying godless people. GRRRRR

I absolutely hate these people. Who the hell do these mo's in robes think they are.
As you say, if we treated anyone in this manner there would be wordwide outrage. I hope to God I live long enough to see our insane dependecy on these pigs gone.
And then where would they be?!