“taqiyya (islamic sanctioned lying in order to prevent Islam from looking bad)…”

No it is not.

“If you cannot get the facts correct, then why embarass yourself by opening your mouth?” – W C Fields

How is it possible for non-Muslims to distinguish between radicals and non-radicals? The usual method of distinguishing between the good and the bad is to be honest the only way – by their deeds and having said that, with radicals pushing, lying and forcing thier control over others, then the collective must take responsibilty. That is the only area that I will agree with argument put forward by many on this site – that collectively it is the Muslims' responsiblity to rid itself of radicalism and repair that “collective image” problem.

Radicals and extremists wish to have a conflict so they declare it a time of war and conflict and this so-called Jihad. Like fatwas, they in fact have no right to declare a jihad so it is in fact easy to see whom is the radical. Fatwas and Jihad can only be declared by the Five Schools of Jurispudence, neither do you hear it often enough. Even OBL declares both and he is not even a cleric, let alone the collective body of the School's leadership.

Shukri, on another thread, correctly answers the issue about taqqiya and thus I will repeat here what he has quoted.

(16) It is of the adab of the high path of Islam to abandon lying, for it is unlawful. Allah Most High curses liars by saying, “May liars be slain” (Qur’an 51:10), in which slain means “cursed” according to the Arabic idiom likening the accursed, who loses every good and happiness, to the slain, who loses life and every blessing. The Qur’anic exegete al-Khazin notes that “May liars be cursed” originally referred to those who sat on the various roads outside Mecca warning people against the words of the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) to keep them from becoming Muslim. The verse, however, like other Qur’anic verses, is not limited to the original circumstances in which it was revealed, but applies universally, to the end of time. Those who lie, except in circumstances in which Sacred Law permits it, are cursed by Allah.

(14) It is of the adab of the high path of Islam to be honest when one speaks. The Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said, “Honesty certainly leads to goodness, and goodness leads to paradise. Truly, a man keeps speaking the truth until he is inscribed as being true through and through. And lying leads to going wrong, and going wrong leads to hell. Truly, a man lies and lies until he is inscribed as being a liar through and through” (Muslim, 4.2012–13: 2607. S).

(15) It is of the adab of the high path of Islam to completely abandon and shun guile, deceit, scornfulness, or sarcasm because these are unlawful. Allah Most High says, “O you who believe, let no men scorn other men, for they might well be better than they are. And let no women scorn other women, for they might well be better than they. And do not find fault with one another, or give each other insulting nicknames” (Qur’an 49:11). And Allah Most High says, “Woe to whoever demeans others behind their back or to their face” (Qur’an 104:1). And the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said, “Let there be no harming another, or harming him back. Whoever harms another Allah shall harm, and whoever gives trouble to another Allah shall give trouble to” (Hakim, 2.58. Hg).

Note two things, this in no way means that I am aligned with the thoughts of many remarks of Shukri and secondly as you already know, I take the importance from the above via the Qur'anic refernces, not those necessarily of the haddiths. What I am taking from the above is this, the use and reference to taqqiya is in fact that used and abused by non-Muslims and has no specific and sinister intentions as referred to by idiots on this blog. The below reference by ljcarolyne being a perfect example on how it is skewered, twisted and then thrown as some accussation.

Don't many Muslims see this as a time of war and conflict and persistant attacks on Muslims, as a justification for jihad? And how are we to know which Muslims are following this example whether they call it taqqiya or not?
Anymore than we can tell by looking, a radical or terrorist Muslim, from any other Muslim? And how appropriate may this be as a portion of a passage about Judgement Day?

Surah Al-Imram and the reference you gave also is talking about the after life or the Day of Judgement and that one of the reason God is so forgiving to someone who is forced to lie about his faith to save his and his family's life is that it says afterwards that God already knows what is in your heart anyhow, so He knows what you really believe. The Surah is in fact for God's benefit, not man's.

The narrative of Al-Imram as a total could be summarized as a Message using the events of the family of Imran, which to explain about their persecution, God reminds them and us that there are sad and bad events but in the end on Judgement Day, God knows exactly whom did good, bad, evil etc, and that those whom were persecuted and to save themselves they lied and said “I renounce Islam” did so out of duress.

If you say taqqiya to a Muslim on the street, anywhere on this planet ale most totally the answer will be “what is that?” but if you say the name of the surah, they will say – “aah, the surah that discribes the dangers and tribulations of Muslims and how God, does not condemn a Muslim to the hell-fires because he denied his faith to save his and his family's life”.

Your reflecting a position that non-Muslims take with Surahs, which is that they are all rules and instructions when they are not. The totallity of the Qur'an is a Message from God – so we Muslims believe. It is divided into three sections, spread evenly not in large sections. They are Historical Events – a history. We are expected to appreciate them. Then there is the Examples, which we are to learn from. The third section are Messages which can be also referred to as Instuctions. Thou shal not …..etc. those which we can say Muslims must follow.

The event that is in 3:28 is considered an Example and sets conditions, again pointing out (for those idiots whom throw the word around willy-nilly, it talks about fear of life. The subject about “friendship with unbelievers” clearly shows that it was set at a time of war and conflict and persistant attacks on Muslims, it has no reference or instruction that says – Muslims may never be friends with non-Muslims and to believe so and use that Surah as proof is naive, considering there are enough other Surahs that talk about and refer to dealing with non-Muslims, marriage with them, the People of the Book (Jews and Christians) etc.

Egypt 2 – Nigeria 1 – pretty good game, I support neither so just watching the style.

How would you explain this, Solkhar?

Add to that the cosntant generalisation about “daughters being killed etc” as being rampant equates well to the over generalization in the Muslim World about gun-happy students or former-employees going on shooting sprees – “but it happens, I saw it on television, it is true!”. I see no difference in the weak arguments that you have given.

Equating, as I pointed out a phrase that has no relevance to the Muslim world for centuries because of the inaction of Muslims frankly is rediculous and I stick by my statement. In fact you have contradicted yourself by pointing out that Muslims confuse themselves about what is cultural, really Islamic and yet you through the unused word Taqqiya in it. I am western born, you cannot pull that xenophic-created excuse of throwing in words that frankly has been pulled out of historical texts by Robert Spencer and have no validity. It might work on those westerners whom know no better but since you claim to know Muslims then your excuse falls even flatter. Your half a decade amongst the “Ummah” is a poor reference. If you want to say “I have been” then I will remind you that your talking to someone born in the West, worked as a Diplomat for 22 years for The Netherlands, postings in Jakarta, Islamabad (responsible for Afghanistan), Brussels, Stockholm, Islamabad (again), Anakara with coverage of Tehran and I now live in Morocco with a job that covers and thus travels to all of North Africa. Six years in conflict in Afghanistan, Iran or Kuwait and you think you know the Ummah, sorry – no you do not. The habits, events and language of Afghanis or Iraqis have little to no correlation to the life of Muslims say in Sumatra or Tunisia, for example. As for little boys or girls raped, I will remind you about rape statistics of the United States, prison number stats, abuse of illegal immigrants of workers, sex trafficking to hungry American paedophiles and that is within a country at peace, not at war.

Sure, abuses happen – it is horrible, abhorent and must be stopped, but it is everywhere and that is the point. Use context, it really helps make an argument look logical.

To add to your last sentence, I too have no problem with anyone's faith and I dispise them trying to force it upon me or anyone else or to subjegate. That is no excuse for inaccuracies and bagging another's faith based on worthless information and assumptions. Voltaire said and I repeat it often, as it is my agenda to point out – inaccuracy leads to rumours, not facts.

As for my statement regarding taqqiya, how is my opinion failed, when I have yet to see muslims en masse do a damned thing to thwart jihadis? You think I don't know how things run in the Ummah? I have been among you for half a decade, I know the vast majority of muslims are ignorant of what true islam really is. I am fully aware that most muslims are functionally illiterate and rely on their imam for their interpretation of islam, and that is a huge problem.

I have no problem with anyone's faith, until they try to force it on me, and mine, or use it to subjugate me and mine. Then we have a problem. Or rather, they do.

The reality, of course, for anyone who has spent time in the Muslim world, is that the concept or word Taqqiya is in fact unheard of by the vast majority of Muslims except theology students and Islamic history teachers. Thus making the taqqiya excuse even more pathetic and suspect.