The Obama effect: US and Britain mulling plan to buy off Taliban for $1 Billion over 5 years

...is someone just throwing this out there for reaction sake...if so you almost had me going...and believing...why
dont we just community organize them into summision...is that an obtion!

..i rather see the chinese go in and partner up...maybe they can find oil...as they are digging for ore!

...is someone just throwing this out there for reaction sake...if so you almost had me going...and believing...why
dont we just community organize them into summision...is that an obtion!

..i rather see the chinese go in and partner up...maybe they can find oil...as they are digging for ore!

Obama is already a "lame duck" prez. One termer. The entire Congress and government is due for a complete overhaul, and will begin with one on November 4th, this year. The people here are really pissed off with the obamaclown and the commies in Congress. The answer to islam is to expell all muz, immigrants or not (or allow them to convert) and close all borders to them. Any enroachment by their filth should be met with extreme predjudice....and if the muz countries jack up the price of oil....just take it. Mecca doesn't need to be there anymore anyway.

Constitutionally, you are proposing a coup d'etat. You are also trampling on the secular separation of church and state that was created by the founding fathers. Not to mention calling your president a communist and a clown. If he's such a bad guy, why hasn't he rounded all his critics up and put them against a wall (which is how dictators usually do business, case you hadn't heard). Or say, establish his own version of the Patriot Act.

Ironically, Muslims are just as fascist as you are. The pedo prophet captured Mecca, imposed his law and removed all the people he didn't agree with. You wanna beat Muslims? Be better than they are. Conservatives want to sink to the level of terrorists and take them seriously.

For 8 years, we watched in horror as Bush did that. His administration oversaw two major wars and an economic obliteration and he made himself an absolute Christian ruler. He waged a war on 'terror', casually ignoring the fact that there are around 100 countries terrorists can choose from to conduct random, disjointed and almost unpredictable acts against the US. Essentially, Mr. Bush chose to fight a cosmic war. There was zero church/state separation and no congressional accountability, whatever anyone says.
If the conservative good ol' boys feel like riding into Washington to establish their little fantasy state, they're more than welcome to - through a democratic observation of the religious freedom laws the US has. If you want constitutional religious freedom to be revoked, contact your congressmen and tell him you want legislation passed that targets a group of American citizens. And while you're at it, deport any Jewish person who sympathizes with the state of Israel and demolish the Israeli lobby on the basis of treason.

All hail conservatives, KINGS of double standards.

Dang! Maz, I think you're catching on! Obama and Co. will be gone through the election process. Left wind is going to go down in November, big time....legally. Gradually, the left will do a fade to very small...they'll still be around. We'll never be completely rid of them. They are a brand of dingbats that are sure they know everything and the rest of us are supposed to be their willing zomboids....very much like islam. At the last election, Obama thought that we recognized what a wonderful super elite he thinks he is...and he's proven to be a total dumbass. Americans are very critical of people that try to run a game on them....Obama is finished and doesn't even believe it ....he's a total narcissist. You're also right about the "Good ole Boys". Those fools that ain't conservative enough (like McCain who will be gone in November) are already shaking in their boots....they know they better get ready for the street, they're going to the curb. Check what a powerhouse the Tea Party has become. They are everybody, from everywhere. The conservatives of the nation are awake. The muz here best get their funky act together as well. Conservatives don't like illegal immigration, and they don't like those that don't assimilate. The illegals (of ALL varieties) will get gone and the muz better learn to get low, whether they're legal or not. The "in your face" shit the muz play elsewhere will get their asses kicked in the States.....whether the cops like it or it's legal or not. If you don't know that, you don't know Americans very well. Mark my words. America is on the way to a quiet revolution, I shit you not! Ask them in Dearborn and Chicago what happens when they export thier shit outside their neighborhoods......they get their asses kicked! There are places they don't dare even go at all. Ask muz in Florida too.

Ah yes. The 'we are legion' argument. Glenn Beck's slumber parties are a useless dramatization of a non-existent problem. Taxed enough already. Every human being on the face of this earth tends to hate taxes. I worked in the US at different intervals, and taxes screwed me over. It's not a new cultural movement. I could just as easily start the 'buttrape is unpleasant' movement and get lots of supporters.

As for your belief that Obama is a 'super-elite', well...The last guy was a Christian fundamentalist who took orders from an invisible man, not the people. He inherited Washington from his rich daddy. And yet you get mouthy when it comes to Obama. Forgetting he was on board to cut Acorn off, he approved the stimulus and most importantly he has not passed one law yet that changed American lives (for better or worse). He's knee-deep in that monkey-faced cokehead's mess and no president who takes the white house in that condition will come out popular.

But this romance conservatives have with McCarthyism. Oh my God, it's like a joke we're expecting the punchline to. You think real Americans give a rat's nutsack about Rush and Hannity's 'The world is going to end, buy my new book' ranting? Your pundits are all overpaid yes-men, and they belie the pointless and outdated nature of the American conservative movements. Millionaires like that c*nt Coulter can scoff all they want. They don't have to go out and get real jobs and feed their families. And if people stand around for hours waving signs, I wonder at the sheer availability of their free time. Do you see people from inner cities protesting this? Do you see tea party members who are American citizens living like animals in the world's 'most modern country'? 8 years of Bush, 1 of Obama. Which do you think has killed the job market more? And there are still ZERO credible arguments the conservatives are making against healthcare. NOT ONE. I just haven't heard it. It's all spook stories and sobbing. Grow up. WASPs may have the free time to indulge in this old-school flag-waving BS. But the people of America need schools, homes, and hospitals. All planned by the current administration. And i just don't see Anarcho-Capitalist Libertarianism giving them that. You may be willing to accept that to become great America had to bend some rules abroad and screw people over. that's nationalism. It's fine. I'm not sure American citizens will endure the fate of Nike's sweat shop workers in their own country.

Oh and beating people in the street based on their link to criminals is fascism. I mean, the way you put it, there is no logical reason to do anything but keep an eye out for white guys running around beating up on everyone else. No wait, sorry that's the cops. Guess conservatives own more than they know

Maz, obviously, your head is planted firmly in your ass and you desperatly need a history lesson. The current crisis was planned and initiated by the democraps....Carter kicked the ball rolling by signing the "Fair Housing Act". This allowed the controls on who was eligible for larger home loans to be very relaxed. When the banking industry resisted, Clinton signed a bill that forced institutions to grant loans to ever increasingly questionable recipients. ACORN was in it up to their eyeballs too. They were responsible for "strong arm" tactics to intimidate bank mortgage officers into granting questionable loans. The banks sold these loans to Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac. As this was going on, the banking oversight committie, controlled by powerful dimwitocraps, effectively hid how deep in the hole the problems were becoming. Then it blew up. Bush could do nothing but spring a loan to those guys, and the dems controlled the money, how it was dispursed and what was done with it. It became, in essence, a pay-off to the bankers who had helped the dems create the crisis. Some of them slinked on home with huge $200 million dollar "performance bonuses". The Closet commies in the Democratic Party controlled the whole thing......Remember Bush had to do whatever he could while encountering Dembuttwad resistance the whole way...and they controlled Congress. The Tea Party people know these things and are reacting to the obvious attempt by the dems to destroy the American economy. So the next time you get on your non-American, f***ing foreign high horse, have your shit together. So far, you just look like an idiot. Getting your head out of your ass would probably be a good start for you.....but then, you may like it there.

Let me break it down for you in a way that your pundits have been too busy ripping you off to do and your redneck brain has been too busy planning witch-hunts to think about. No one is stupid enough to believe that the housing crisis was caused by Carter and Clinton. I mean NO ONE. Even conservatives never said anything that retarded. The housing crisis was caused by zero accountability in the business world and a non-existent SEC. Wall street was a zoo, Madoff got away with 60 billion and the banks dug a giant hole by constantly lending money they didn't have. Whose fault is that? The banks' fault, you moron. Read a book. Personally, I opposed the bail-out. But it seemed to work. As for the conspiracy theories you seem to espouse on the subject, they could make a half-decent screenplay. Otherwise, it's all crap. Take the foil off your skull and get real. As for the Republicans, they lost congress by dicking more little boys than polio did in the 40's. The democratic party never fought them hard enough, and even when congress was handed to the dems on a silver platter, they failed to stop Bush's reign of terror. I tried getting a job in your conservative boyfriend's economy, and I didn't see the America I remembered under Clinton. Just two crappy wars (sequels of Ronald Satan's Afghanistan and Douche Senior's Gulf War) and a recession. Til' this DAY, the democratic party still lets the republicans get away with too much crap. Because they are and always have been fear-mongering douches.

Oh and as for your 'non-American' remarks, Herr Tonto, it's time for a schoolyard lesson. Ready? Here goes. ANYONE who holds US citizenship (that's me baby, born and raised) is an American citizen. Eat your Nazi heart out. The minute you wave a flag like a deficient nationalist retard, you belie the reality of your party. Fear, hate, and most importantly delusion. Give people the jobs and houses they deserve because they pay taxes and abide by the law and stop bitching about the great Marxist conspiracy. Obama is a regular president. Maybe if you guys had actually waited a month or two before howling about nothing, we would have bought your story about genuine concern for US policy. Maybe

Forgot to mention on thing for your feebled little mind. CRA = Community Re-investment Act of 1977. Carter started it, Clinton expanded it. Bush tried to stop it but didn't do enough.

Bravo John!

No one is stupid enough to believe that the housing crisis was caused by Carter and Clinton. I mean NO ONE. Even conservatives never said anything that retarded.

You talk a big game without a clue about history or factual events. Everything you said makes you sound like a complete idiot so maybe I can shed some insight to your moronic state of mind.

Nobody is saying saying that the CRA is the only factor here. There is plenty of blame to go around, regulators, Alan Greenspan, derivatives desks on Wall Street. But to let CRA and its enablers off the hook is ridiculous.

The evidence is overwhelming that the CRA played a significant role in creating lax lending standards that fueled the housing bubble. The CRA was not a static legislation. It evolved over the years from a relatively hands-off law focused on process into one that focused on outcomes.

Regulators, beginning in the mid-nineties, began to hold banks accountable in serious ways. Banks responded to this new accountability by increasing the CRA loans they made, a move that entailed relaxing their lending standards.

For several consecutive years, the Fed pushed interest rates down. This made refinancing more attractive, and created an investor demand for yield. Fannie and Freddie popularized low-income securitization. Low defaults and loss rates from lax loans made them seem not as risky as previously expected. A shrinking consumer asset base thanks to the dot com bust created a demand for home-equity loans and high loan-to-value loans, as consumers exchanged high-interest credit card debt for low interest home debt. Speculators seeking higher returns and ordinary home buyers became aware that lax lending standards would allow them to buy bigger homes with little or no money down.

Bush, McCain and the Republicans in both 2003 and 2005 made a strong effort to reign in the problems they saw arising out of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Democrats resisted time and time again. Do I really need top pull out the videos of Chris Dodd, Barney frank, Maxine Waters and all the rest of the Dems who are caught saying that Republicans are freaking out over nothing? If you aren't aware, I will show you. That is if you actually have an open mind to the TRUTH. The REpubs tried to reign in it (but didn't try hard enough) and even worse, the Liberal Dems are on record as sayin "nothing is wrong". Why? Cause they BELIEVE it's every American's RIGHT to own a home and they saw this trend growing and they liked it. They made any excuse they could to believe their own bullsh**.

You're condescension tone indicates that you have no interest in educating yourself. That's your problem.

One last point. Let me get this straight from the man espousing ridiculing "conspiracy theories" or whatever... So Bush is a terrorist, Republicans are Nazi's, Ronald Reagan is Satan, the Dems were powerless with their super majority and it was all the Repubs fault, Nazi's were "conservative" eventhough Hitler espoused totalitarian socialism and every American "deserves" a house.

Do you realize how idiotic you sound?

"Do you realize how idiotic you sound?"
I sound about as idiotic as Hannity or Beck. You're right. You guys aren't Nazis. I sunk to the conservative level of name-calling when I made that statement. But Obama is a flesh-eating Communist scumbag who is selling our country to the terrorists brick by brick. That makes sense.

"Fannie and Freddie popularized low-income securitization"
"Speculators seeking higher returns and ordinary home buyers became aware that lax lending standards would allow them to buy bigger homes with little or no money down."

And you don't perceive that as dumb-ass mortgage companies doing everything they could to make money? As the white house report puts it "market participants sought higher yields without an adequate appreciation of the risks and failed to exercise proper due diligence." No one was forcing them, they just wanted more gain.

"The evidence is overwhelming that the CRA played a significant role in creating lax lending standards that fueled the housing bubble"

The CRA and ACORN are really not as big as you seem to believe, Infidelisto. You expect me to buy the line of crap that the poor banks were cowering in fear because the government forced them to give out more housing loans?
There were no roving gangs of democrats 'strong-arming' anyone into giving away houses. "Quick, there's a bank, let's force it to lend at an attractive rate!" You've gone from assuming the housing companies were left alone completely until it was waaaay too late, to saying the democrats were beating up investors and forcing them to give away houses.

They're LOANS. Not hand-outs. They are done with a profit in mind. That's basic economics for you. Even with lower interest rates, the mortgage brokers figured they would make their money back either way. Because more people were buying. Sorta like how Coke is knocking off bottles for 1.86, and still it's a giant corporation. Get it?

Now the two tricky parts are

1) They got greedy. They assumed that if enough people were paying them money, everything would always be fine. Which was idiotic, because:

2) No one had any money. Housing rates remained stable and American income was a quarter of what it needed to be. Hate to point fingers, but no one was getting big money off their jobs after 2000. And we all know who was in charge then

I don't agree with socialism as a business model. It discourages growth. But I do encourage my government to stop letting corporations work for their own immediate interests, rather than for the economic security of the nation. Realistically, if the bail-out meant that the companies were being treated like the heart of America's economy, how come Bush never treated them as responsible entities. Bear in mind he only lacked house majority for a little over a year. He didn't have such a big problem invading Iraq while ignoring every bit of military advice on the matter(such a useless war) so why was the democratic minority such a threat?

It's because conservatives think everything is a threat. Everything. Someone's always trying to murder or rape or plunder America (note, America is like their wife, not a country) , and the conservative party is going to use its archaic value system to bring us back to the glory days. Which don't really exist. And I'm the one who sounds idiotic

On some of those things you're correct. Greed is a prime motivator, especially in these days where the attitude of "Hooray for me, and screw you" prevails almost everywhere. And I'm positive that the banks knew that the cards were going to fall. Bet they also knew that a "bailout loan" was going to come their way as they quietly slipped out the back door with their millions from all their "performance bonus" perks. Who cares about the economy as long as I got mine, right? A $200,000,000 "golden parachute" ain't nothing to sneeze at, is it? Makes me wonder huh? Were Congressional oversight committees involved up to their eyeballs? HELL YES! The frickin' proof is on youtube, take a gander. Was Bush and the republican part of Congress flat on their asses? HELL YES! Was this whole crisis a manufactured set-up? You bet your ass! For what purpose? To set up Obama with his hope and change scam. For Pete's sake, it's pretty obvious that Obama is a socialist and the scenario for a government take over of Health, Education and Banking (which he made no bones about that as an ambition BEFORE he was elected) was a PERFECT set-up. Now take a good look. Is there any possible way for all these little things to fall into place by accident? Call me a conspiracy theorist if you want, but it's blatantly obvious to me it was a frickin' plan. The Dems have been hand-grooming certain "ideal candidates" for years! Al "Plastic man"Gore , and John "Lurch" Kerry are prime examples. Barrak Hussein Obama blew them and the Clintons away. Now think about Barrak's background. Where in the f*** did a half breed bastard from the poor part of Oahu get the big bucks to go to the colleges he did? Student loans? My ass! Planned, groomed executed. Brilliant! Fooled your sorry ass, didn't they? You and a whole bunch of the stupidest f***s in the country. And look at the wimpy puke they ran against Obama.....McCain? How frickin' pitiful was that? Hero? Fuckin' A ! Anybody who can take a physical ass whippin'like he did in Vietnam is a hell of a man in my book. But take a look at what's happening in Arizona dude. McCain is going into panic mode because J.D. Hayworth is going to take his job because of his wimpyness. How about New Jersey, and Virginia and Brown in Massachusetts? Just a fluke?
Say whatever you like about the conservative movement that's going on. Whatever they come up with will be better than the "workers paradise" that Obama and Co. want for us. You want to see what super liberal socialism can do for a place? Take a real good, in depth look at the history of Detroit, Michigan......or the state of Michigan....or the "People's State of California"....or how about "People's Democratic State of Massachusetts". Point is, you're right that people are tired of this political BS....from both sides, and they're making their move. The left already did theirs....and nobody likes it. So the left is going bye-bye. We'll see what happens next, but I got a sneaking hunch that the housecleaning will work or the US will collapse. And that's exactly what the left has been working for since 1864.

Boy, are you ever one brain-dead leftist high school twit or what? You really believe that shit you're spewing? Amazing that anyone can be that stupid and still breathe. Carter, right now is viewed as being the worst US President EVER, but Obama is catching up and surpassing him by leaps and bounds. No doubt that Obama is a lame duck. After only one year HE already knows he is a "one term" President, he's said so. He spins success, but actually hasn't accomplished a single thing except TRIPLE the debt by his drunken sailor style of spending and piss off an entire nation while doing that!. If you're an American citizen, maybe you should give it up and move someplace where the socialist style of living is more to your liking......like France maybe...or Morocco and you can hang with Dom "Solkhar" Huntman, our resident troll. Get your head out boy! Oh yeah, and get used to us rednecks....nazis are socialist like you stupid.....cause we will be taking over and the Constitution is going to make an amazing reawakening.
By the way, you don't even know what a redneck is do you? Do you have a clue where that came from? There's a history lesson for you.

I throw the redneck label around because that's how you sound. But you're right. It just goes back and forth, no-one gets any ground. You're not a Nazi, neither is your party. That kind of name-calling and provocative speech belongs on Glenn Beck's show, or Hannity's or Limbaugh's. It's not the talk of rational adults.

Obama is a US president. Nothing remarkable about him. Us liberals were wrong for thinking the sun shines out of his ass and the conservatives are wrong for sounding like jack-offs. Your pundits seem to believe he's some kind of super-being. Really not the case. Understand that. As for the TRIPLING of the debt, no idea where you get your facts. Obama really hasn't done much. Didn't close Guantanamo, didn't provide health-care and simply approved the bail-out package that the government kept pressing for. If Obama was a real socialist, GM would be a government owned company right now. And it would be totally legal. Because since the government gave the companies all the money, technically it should own them. But it doesn't.

So that's why Obama is not a socialist, but ironically you are. It's just you believe in a different kind of state control. You just want to agree on the government providing you cops, firemen and a military (no gays in it, obviously), just not healthcare, education and social services. We're all very proud you're such a big boy and you managed to make it in your life, but other people lack those opportunities. You probably assume it's because of crack use, gangs, or maybe a gene in poor people that makes them dumber and lazier. The theories are astounding, believe me.

But if someone is an American, he/she has the right to demand that the government gets off its ass and gives him his due. And not that the government spends his tax dollars on TRILLION dollar wars that have the planning of a barnyard dance (see, that's a reference to your lifestyle, champ).

You can take your notions of who is American and who isn't and stuff them where you stuff Hannity's nutsack."Hey, that guy disagrees with my way of thinking...He must be an evil treasonous bastard with no love for the great land of our patriots" You may not be a Nazi Tonto, but you sure are drunk on nationalism.

My contention is that you are in way too much denial about what is going on. The conservative liberals, like you, have been duped into believing that the Obaminaton is harmless and "only wants to help the poor and unfortunate". But he wants to do it with mine and I object. I lived in the Detroit are and I KNOW what all that warm and fuzzy entitlement bullshit is about. It's not an end. It's a STEP in a plan. Well, stuff that! If you want to help the "poor, unfortunate" professional welfare recipients, go for it. They call that "Charity", and I'll just bet you haven't beggared yourself helping the "poor". That's what pisses me off. I worked my ass off all my life and some millionaire "Elite" puke comes along and takes mine to give to some other mook that doesn't feel like working like a mule as I did. When all these asshats that keep telling me I need to help the "less fortunate" come calling with hat in hand, having spent all their assets helping those wonderful unfortunates they love so much, then we'll talk. But that sure ain't what I see. The "entitled" are a useful tool for the left to use, like fuzzy little seal pups and precious little fish that "are on the very edge of extinction". They call that "buying votes with other people's money". Slick scam. Donate yours dude, not mine. Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson won't even say thanks....they'll laugh at your sorry ass behind your back. They've mad a damn fine living helping to create "The Entitled" and keeping them feeling they are. They think guys like you are just suckers.

No, I'm sorry. That's absurd and ridiculous. You wear your rhetoric like a big red sweater. Zero is too insufficient to describe the amount of evidence, logical fortitude and of course basic human reason behind this theory. I can't debate you on pure steaming bullsh** like this.

As for your views on welfare, if you don't want your hard-earned money to go to underprivileged citizens, elect representatives that create a real job market in America, and give people real chances to support their families. Detroit is a hell-hole because GM left it and now everyone is jobless in the city. There was no federal effort to help create jobs, and I can't even remember hearing about one since I read about Roosevelt. I agree with you on the point that welfare is wrong - you shouldn't have to pay for another citizen's laziness. But that's in the ideal state where the job market and minimum wage are anywhere near what they need to be. So which is it? Force companies to pay fair wages, or take the tax money and stop people from starving?

And of course, if you can't stand your money going to other people, stop paying your government for defense and police. Because if you're comfortable handling every aspect of your life, why does the government need to intervene? Buy an M-16 and stand outside your house, waiting for danger

You don't want the poor to get your money. Well, I didn't want either war, i worked a job that was significantly taxed, and I was not able to stop the Bush admin from taking my money and blowing it on a useless war. An ideal American recovery plan would not revolve around the increase of taxes, but rather the appropriation of that money. The US military is crunching out GARGANTUAN numbers for a royally horrible job (the only good part is that soldiers do get top government health care, which the population doesn't seem to deserve). What did they invade Iraq with, Cadillacs? Cut defense spending from the blank check it is now, and we'll have lower taxes that can benefit the population.

Really seems like at this point we'll have to agree to disagree

Boy, you really don't know diddley squat. GM is still IN Detroit.....Chrysler left....they shut down an old outdated plant called Dodge Main. Detroit fell because the Democraps took over in 62, then Coleman Young (a very racist black man) was the mayor for 22 years and ran out every white-owned business in town, by taxing them at a different rate and preferential treatment for black businesses....that's established fact. See if you can find your own ass with both hands without smelling your own fingers. Your ignorance is showing like a nun in a whorehouse. Your insipid feelings for the poor and downtrodden are real naive too. Like I said, if you feel for them so much, you give all your money to them. I know better than to think that hard-core unemployed want opportunity....I've SEEN them turn it down. Why work when "the man" pays all your bills and you can be profilin' on Mack Avenue? Shit. Get out there and see what's what kid. I've seen 14 year olds with wads of money, driving Mercedes, with gold chains you can choke a horse with, and that kid would cut out your eyeballs for shits and giggles. I've seen LRRPs that didn't look as mean as some of those kids.
If you don't know what is up with Iraq and Afghanistan you're real light. Iraq on one side, Afghanistan on the other, the Persian Gulf just past their front lawn, our troops all around killing every bird they throw up......Iran's in a real pickle, and scared shitless.....mean times Revolution for democracy is going on in there....THEIR own people killed in the streets over that. Bush wants a 3-fer. Mean times we're killing hell out of jihadi pukes we don't have to put up with here. You have no idea how many jihadis from how many other countries go to those places so American troops can light their asses up. Meanwhile, no collateral damages here in the states. Get it? Not too bad a plan. The count is about 40 to 1, in case you didn't know. That's why the next big war in the M/E will be between the sunni and the shia. The Iranians have already been on THEIR TV whining about the number of apostates from islam that are popping up. We should have troops there just to piss off the Iranian mullahs, but the added benefit of whackin' and stackin' jihadis is just too good to pass up.
You really need to do some studying up on the life and times of this wide world before you chew off all your toes....you already done stuck both your feet in your own mouth.

Soooo, i'm supposed to believe that poor people are really just a large group of expertly led and organized con artists? They drive around with bling and they steal from the government, all the while laughing at the poor unfortunate rich people that had to give their government all their money? You've clearly got a problem with poor people based on some fantasy that has no basis. First of all, even six-year-olds know that Detroit turned lousy because the Auto companies were so instrumental to the economy that whenever they f***ed up their money, everyone in Detroit paid the piper. The 'evil black mayor' story is an old wives' tale. Businesses propped up Detroit and then they packed up because the Japanese were kicking them in the ass, fuel crises and automated manufacturing.Simply put, the economic system needs restructuring

As for these people you see turning down jobs and driving around with money they deserve...where are they? All I ever saw in America was depressed looking slobs on the subway, going to a job they hated to try and make ends meet despite no significant increase in wages. That's what the poor look like. They're not devious, they're not sly, they're broke and they don't need a helping hand. They need a government that gives them their due. And we're not intending on stealing that due from your pocket slick. You don't fund the greatest country in the world with your 10% income tax and 50 bucks a week.(note, I'm basing this on what I used to make and spend in taxes before i went back for a Master's, you probably make more). The US has ways to make money, and it's demonstrated its deep pockets internationally with trillion dollar wars every 20 years.

Oh and if you get such a hard-on over killing Jihadists, buy a gun and do it yourself. I didn't serve my country because i didn't want to be in Bush's evangelical task force and his 'crusade'. In case you haven't noticed, America has favorable diplomatic relations with everyone in the Middle East except Iran. And while Saddam would have loved to come rock the boat in the US, he was just a loud-mouthed fart. And he could have been eliminated with waaaay more ease. That's because there has always been a way to fight America's enemies. Cheaper, faster and more surgical. Like Shinseki pointed out in his INCREDIBLY detailed report and the CIA pointed out with theirs. You go in there blind and all you do is put our boys in the cross-hairs of some Jihadi monkey. Jihadists understand nothing but force, but it's not something American teenagers have to do themselves. It's something we've always gladly paid off Saudi Arabia and Pakistan(huge allies, mind you) to do for us. And to relate back to the topic, it's how we'll solve Afghanistan. Pay the right people, snipe the right people and install a government that we get along with. Let them keep the apes in line, while we focus less on the shitstorm that is the Middle East and more the shitstorm that is our economy

Take a gander at this article. It says the same things I been saying, but you might take it better from an established writer than me. http://www.newswithviews.com/Wooldridge/frosty5...

Are you on drugs or just the most stupid fuck that ever arrived at this site? You sure have no idea in the world what you're talking about with Detroit. In the "Green Machine" huh? So what! I did 4 years too and got some jacket lettuce to show off...yippie shit. You're pretty confused dude. Maybe you need to visit this and other sites and just keep your mouth from flapping and try to learn some things with an open mind...."The often open mouth impedes the efficiency of the seldom open mind"....Chiun. You've got some pretty hard ingrained misconceptions you probably picked up in some hard-left college somewhere from professors that never hit a hard lick in their lives. The real world is some different homie. I got in arguments with some of those bone heads because the Army interrupted and I went back after that with my eyes wide open. Scholastics have a totally skewed view of the world....and have no idea at all. That's where liberals come from. "Liberals just know so much that is wrong"....Ronald Reagan Think about it man, and chill before you have a heart attack or slobber all over your keyboard and short it out.

The US has never supported sending money and resources to violent dictators. Except Saddam. And the Contras. And the Iranian Shah. And pretty much half of South America. Okay so America does have a bad rep when it comes to sending big fat cheques to complete maniacs as long as the US government gets a guarantee that their interests will be favored (and this strategy was in full swing under the republicans). That's why the US government was so tight with the Saud's and the Musharraf's of this world even during the post 9/11 Bush era. Need I remind anyone that America contributed to the rise of fundamentalist Islam in Afghanistan by supporting the violent Jihadists (Ronald Satan was president, as i recall) against the Reds, who we can all agree were America's favorite whipping boy.

So, the consensus is that it's a bit late for the holier-than-thou accusations from the conservative pundits, as adorable as it is. Conservatives have always favored picking and choosing dictatorships, using this Machiavellian tactic to avoid armed intervention. That's because armed intervention takes nearly unlimited resources and planning. Neither of which either of Bush's invasions possessed. Oh sure, they were overpriced disasters. But they were about as well planned as Catholic parenthood.

Gen. Shinseki's warnings were unheeded, so congratulations, Iraq is a US quandary. Afghanistan has the genuine problem of being a veritable hellhole. Our government can bomb ad nauseum, but that won't restore order, which means the Taliban can slip into Pakistan and come back quickly. The real move now is to get money and resources for rebuilding Afghanistan. And to keep whatever pro-US government exists in Afghanistan strong enough to crush anti-American uprisings. Even GEORGE W BUSH bought off Iraqi insurgents after the war. We all had to agree, that was a great strategy. It simply costs less than a war. Can everyone please stop acting like Barack Obama is the great liberal crusader, trying to buy the Taliban a happier life? He's paying them off like America has always done. It is a MEGALITHIC improvement on the gargantuan sums that any war has ever cost the US government. Oh,and as for socialism: Barack Obama gave the Wall Street jack-offs the bail-out money with no strings attached. Sounds like a socialist to me. Give pointlessly rich doucebags a pile of money unconditionally to save their rears from the problem they caused. He's more of a conservative than Douche Limbaugh

One billion dollars over 5 years to alleviate the poverty of certain of the Taliban. I didn't realise America had no people of its own in desperate financial straits. Yet, if I am wrong there can be no doubt that America's needy will feel a warm glow of satisfaction knowing that the money that might have come their way is being directed towards those who once strove to deny females an education, forbade people the fun of flying kites, participated in cowardly ambushes and encouraged their own to become suicide bombers. America's poor are SO understanding, aren't they? Daily, the night darkens ......... Will someone please check Obama's scalp for three sixes?

Off topic:
Beej old chap I think I remember you saying you taught chemistry?
There's a program (available on BBC iplayer)on chemistry hosted by Prof Jim Al Khalili.
It's outstanding, and covers the work of JohnDalton, Bezalius,and the great (real)prophet of the periodic table Mendeleev.
I wish I could have seen it 50 years ago.

Ah, you should see ME teach this stuff, HSB!! Mendeleev is revered, of course, but one must never overlook his debt to Newlands and to Lothar Meyer. Then there was the youthful Moseley, killed at Gallipoli in WW I, who finally cleared away the problems lurking in Mendeleev's table. The history of chemistry is fascinating. Is it not amazing that many chemists denied the existence of atoms until Einstein came along? It baffles me how they could have been so obdurate in the face of so much persuasive evidence. Until the physics chaps turned their minds to it, chemistry was not a science (howls of outrage from chemists!), for it could give no reasons for the multitudes of observations. Take, for example, the concept of valency put forward by Frankland in 1858. Each element had a valency (some had several) or bonding power, but no chemist could have told you WHY until the physics wallahs started fooling around with electrons. Yup, chemistry, like ALL sciences, is applied physics. Rutherford put it best: "All science is physics, or stamp collecting!" Spot on. Thus, you can imagine what I think when I hear people speak of "political science"!!

I agree. Chem was one of my majors too. You nailed it Beejj. (nailing is an interesting physics problem) LOL

They quoted some chap who said that Mosely getting a bullet in the head might set back Physics/chemistry many years.
He was 26!
Political science Beej?
The most impertinent oxymoron in all history!

They should ask for a signing bonus and no-trade clause!

good one.

thanks for using my paintshop - obama, recipe for disaster